Sin and the Internet

forgiven61 said:
you know for the most i agree please note i am not a forearm expert . it does bother me to see someone having a gun strapped on there side .. how do i know but what they might freak out start firing at random . i use to know a guy who would put on his pistol and go to town.. he was a crank/ meth head that stayed buzzed up . yet he had no felony record . this is why i disagree with fed law mandatory ten years just being a felon with a gun. it has done nothing but filled the federal prison system up . yes most all charged got busted with drugs or some other crime and had a gun with them. but there has been those who simply had a weapon never committed a crime busted.

my personal opinion of the federal court is over rated especially the white collar crimes politicians putting each other away . political power play . yes i been to fed court seen how it works . just about as bad as state court . i seen a premeditated murder or 1st degree reduced to 2nd degree given 10 years over a statement frank was always scared of them boys ! the man got up from a checker game went to the bed room got a automatic 22 shot a man 8 times . yes the victim and his bro paid a visit .because the shooter had hit their mom.


sorry for the vent i sent you P.M
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Good morning.

I am having a little problem following along, but here goes:

I looked it up and Missouri does not explicitly prohibit open carry. To be honest with you, it is a bit difficult knowing that these laws are, as there is no uniformity among states.

As for you knowing is someone might "freak out and start shooting," I guess there is no way to actually know one way or the other. This is my primary issue with "open carry" laws. I can understand why people would be concerned with other people walking around with a weapon exposed.

For the most part, individuals with felony convictions, restraining orders, or those adjudicated mentally ill are prohibited from carrying firearms; however, this is a legal prohibition and might not stop someone from doing so illegally.

I do not understand what you mean by " i disagree with fed law mandatory ten years just being a felon with a gun." Under federal law, the crime of Felon in Possession of a Firearm is a Class D felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison, three years of supervised release, and $250,000 in fines. This too varies by state, In Florida, you can get up to 15 years.

As for a criminal charge being reduced, this happens all the time. The reason for this has to do with the burden of proof. In a murder case, as you mention, showing premeditation might not be possible, so lowering the change to eliminate that requirement might be considered a wise move by the prosecutor.

Anyway, all laws are created under the assumption that they will be followed. This does not mean that they will be followed, and we know that a very large portion of our society will not. There really is no way of knowing all the details of why James Madison introduced the Second Amendment, but he did, and it was ratified in 1791. One can argue about the meaning of a well-regulated militia all day, but it basically is what it is. I suspect that this discussion will continue, until the day that the Second Amendment is re-defined. Until them, we should follow the guidance on the back of a $1.00 bill:

United_States_one_dollar_bill,_reverse.jpg
 
in God we trust is just about a thing in the past .

i dont fully know the open carry laws. other than its a back ground check to own a hand gun with a permit


I do not understand what you mean by " i disagree with fed law mandatory ten years just being a felon with a gun." Under federal law, the crime of Felon in Possession of a Firearm is a Class D felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison, three years of supervised release, and $250,000 in fines. T it means i disagree with the wording . it means if your a felon get caught just having a gun or bullets' or even a cross bow. no other laws broken your indicted to federal court . if you have a previous record then they can add more time on to the sentence .

imo it should read felon in possessione of a firearm in the commission of a crime .. a white collar crime falls under the same law

in fact i have yet to see any new law passed prevent gun crimes . if i want a gun to commit a crime i either A. steal the gun.. or B buy it off the street .

some of the die hard republicans love new laws.. the democrats wants firearms out period


yes i understand the laws on murder , the case i am referring to was a friend of mine. the man who shot him was his alleged step dad married his mom. ( she was not very smart ) when her old man smacked her around . the 2 brothers payed him a visit and thumped his gourd.

later on my friend was drinking went down to visit and in a checker game . the step dad got up to go get the gun. kenny could have grabbed his mom and 8 year old son and went out the back or front door. instead he tried to hide behind a wood stove 3 shots in the shoulder 5 in the back point blank.

the news paper interviewed the mom. she made the statement Frank her husband was always scared of her sons. boom the county attorney had to drop the charges down 2nd degree murder ten years which most likely was just 5 served .

i am well aware how the law works and in trials one statement made can give a lawyer a loop hole . to get his client off
 
In Awe of Him said:
Here in Canada.... we don't need guns... we have snowballs.... HA.
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Actually, you all are listed as the 7th country with the most weapons in civilian hands, per 100 people: 36,626,000. But you all are listed as the North American country with the largest number of snowballs per person.


LocationFirearms per 100 personsRegionSubregionPopulation 2017Firearms in civilian possessionComputation methodRegistered firearmsUnregistered firearmsNotes
23px-Flag_of_the_United_States.svg.png
United States		120.5AmericasNorth America326,474,000393,347,00011,073,743392,273,257 Est.[note 2]
23px-Flag_of_the_Falkland_Islands.svg.png
Falkland Islands		62.1AmericasSouth America3,0002,00021,705295
23px-Flag_of_Yemen.svg.png
Yemen		52.8AsiaWestern Asia28,120,00014,859,0002N/AN/A
43px-Flags_of_New_Caledonia.svg.png
New Caledonia		42.5OceaniaMelanesia270,000115,000255,00060,000
23px-Flag_of_Serbia.svg.png
Serbia		39.1EuropeSouthern Europe6,946,0002,719,00021,186,0861,532,914
23px-Flag_of_Montenegro.svg.png
Montenegro		39.1EuropeSouthern Europe626,000245,0003103,536141,464
23px-Flag_of_Canada_%28Pantone%29.svg.png
Canada		34.7AmericasNorth America36,626,00012,708,00022,081,44210,626,558
 
rtm3039 said:
Actually, you all are listed as the 7th country with the most weapons in civilian hands, per 100 people: 36,626,000. But you all are listed as the North American country with the largest number of snowballs per person.
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That really shocks me because fire arms is NOT a common topic here. I am going on 61 and I don't think I have ever had a conversation with anyone who had fire arms. Now in the back country... I am familiar with the ownership of shot guns for protection against animals and for hunting etc.
 
In Awe of Him said:
That really shocks me because fire arms is NOT a common topic here. I am going on 61 and I don't think I have ever had a conversation with anyone who had fire arms. Now in the back country... I am familiar with the ownership of shot guns for protection against animals and for hunting etc.
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It's probably not conversation worth having, as it never really fixes anything. In the 21st century, you all have had 56 mass shootings:

Total IncidentsDeadInjuredTotal
56​
160​
208​
368​
 
In Awe of Him said:
That really shocks me because fire arms is NOT a common topic here. I am going on 61 and I don't think I have ever had a conversation with anyone who had fire arms. Now in the back country... I am familiar with the ownership of shot guns for protection against animals and for hunting etc.
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Below was the worst in Canada's history:

LocationNova Scotia, Canada
Date22:00, April 18, 2020 –
11:26, April 19, 2020 ADT (UTC−03:00)
Attack typeSpree shooting, mass murder, arson[1]
Weapons
Deaths23 (including the perpetrator)
Injured3
PerpetratorGabriel Wortman
 
I have to look up what shooting that was. OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... YEP....
the minute I saw Nova Scotia... I knew exactly what that was all about.
That was a really sad case. They are all sad cases.
 
In Awe of Him said:
I have to look up what shooting that was. OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... YEP....
the minute I saw Nova Scotia... I knew exactly what that was all about.
That was a really sad case. They are all sad cases.
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Yes, they all are.

I broke is down by years.

Largest number of cases was 2018 (7) with the most total death/injury (41). Largest number of deaths was in 2020 (24). Largest number of injured was 2012 (33). I mean, ki's nothing compared to us, with the single worst incident being in 20217, with 60 deaths and 867 injured.

YearTotalDeadInjuredTotal
20011707
20021606
20030
20040
20051505
2006121012
20071606
20080
20091404
2010201414
201126612
2012483341
2013201010
20145161127
2015331417
20164121224
20176151934
20187152641
20192448
2020224731
20212369
20224141226
20235 111627
Totals56161200361
 
I had to do some digging... but I think the one in 2012 with the most injuries was a gang related shooting.
They called it the Danzig Street Shooting. 24 people were injured at a block party.
 
In Awe of Him said:
I had to do some digging... but I think the one in 2012 with the most injuries was a gang related shooting.
They called it the Danzig Street Shooting. 24 people were injured at a block party.
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Yes. Many of the "mass shootings" here in the US appear to also be gang related. The issue is that any incident in which four or more people are injured/killed with a firearm is defined as a mass shooting, regardless of the circumstances.

This is how it is defined by https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/, which is used most often to gather data.
 
That makes sense to me... I know Canada is big... but we have 3 major centers that I would call "target zones for violence"
Downtown Toronto..... Downtown Vancouver and Montreal seems to be attracting stuff lately. I'm sure this is because they are
large hubs.... but these problems have been going on for decades now. Violence is definitely getting to be a more serious problem now.
People are so very angry and so READY to show that... I notice this mostly when I'm in someone's car going somewhere... road rage ( which I thought was a joke ) is actually a REAL THING.
 
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In Awe of Him said:
That makes sense to me... I know Canada is big... but we have 3 major centers that I would call "target zones for violence"
Downtown Toronto..... Downtown Vancouver and Montreal seems to be attracting stuff lately. I'm sure this is because they are
large hubs.... but these problems have been going on for decades now. Violence is definitely getting to be a more serious problem now.
People are so very angry and so READY to show that... I notice this mostly when I'm in someone's car going somewhere... road rage ( which I thought was a joke ) is actually a REAL THING.
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Yes, I learned that the road rage thing was really many years ago.

When I was a kid (maybe 17 or so), I and three friends were driving around downtown Miami. Some guy was driving like an idiot and we, unwisely beat the car horn a little too often. He pulled up behind us, took out a gun, and then started chasing us all over the place. It was very early in the morning, so there was not a great deal of traffic. We managed to elude him, but that was a valuable lesson in why it is best to leave idiots alone in their misery.

Every year, our FBI use to publish what they called the "crime clock." They have not done this in the last two years, mostly because exporting requirements changed, and many law enforcement agencies have not provided the requested information. The latest one is from 2020 (see below):

crime stats.jpg

If you consider that your first post here today was at around 9:30 this morning, and it is now 1:30 in the afternoon, we have had at least 10 murders, 57 rapes, 109 robberies, 419 assaults and 369 car thefts. Yikes
 
rtm3039 said:
Yes, I learned that the road rage thing was really many years ago.

When I was a kid (maybe 17 or so), I and three friends were driving around downtown Miami. Some guy was driving like an idiot and we, unwisely beat the car horn a little too often. He pulled up behind us, took out a gun, and then started chasing us all over the place. It was very early in the morning, so there was not a great deal of traffic. We managed to elude him, but that was a valuable lesson in why it is best to leave idiots alone in their misery.

Every year, our FBI use to publish what they called the "crime clock." They have not done this in the last two years, mostly because exporting requirements changed, and many law enforcement agencies have not provided the requested information. The latest one is from 2020 (see below):

View attachment 10357

If you consider that your first post here today was at around 9:30 this morning, and it is now 1:30 in the afternoon, we have had at least 10 murders, 57 rapes, 109 robberies, 419 assaults and 369 car thefts. Yikes
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Actually, I lied. Found the numbers for 2022, but it did not help improve the 2020 numbers :(
 
rtm3039 said:
Yes, NZ is currently considered the second safest country in the world, right below Iceland. Your crime ratio is around 2.60 per 100k population. Part of that is because you all are a small country, with just a little over 5 million. You all are about the size of California, but California has a population of over 39 million.

This is probably a good place to note that in March 2019, NZ had second largest mass shooting (51) in modern history. As for the ocean thing, did not do much to help Hawaii in 1941.

I can't explain the US' love of guns. Guns do have a long history with this country, starting with the country's independence. It must have been important enough to dedicate an entire amendment in its constitution.

It is, however, well placed: Freedom of religion, speech, and holding the government accountable on one end and protecting your home against government overreach on the other. In the middle, well, the right to bear arms to prevent an egregious violation of that which comes before and after.
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Its probably the whole 'wild west' thing in the US. Guns are seen as cool and necessary weapons.
Here, they are just used for hunting animals.

Very sad about the Christchurch shootings. I remember Aramoana as well. We do have gang violence here, and high rates of domestic violence.
I would not say NZ is particularly safe, other aspects of life are treacherous. We have problems with drunk driving, and our roads are shaky and prone to landslips, and people drown in rivers, but generally, in public, people are not wary and suspicious of each other. We also don't have large predators like the US has bears and Australia has crocs.

Our coasts are more wild though. French terrorists did blow up the Rainbow Warrior, so...its not like NZ is immune, but our anthem says God defends us and people really do believe that.

You watch American movies and the actors always carry guns and play with them like toys. In NZ we're horrified that americans seem to think everything will be solved by a shoot out. But that's what they did in the olden days.
 
I watched a movie called 'Everything, everywhere, all at once' it was R13 and just warning you had some violence and swearing. usually I skip movies like that cos there will be shooting in it. But this time, there were no guns it was all kung fu fighting.

It was set in the US but it was focussed on Chinese American immigrants, and, Chinese in general don't carry guns. Even though they invented gunpowder.

It was a bit confusing movie and long, but the gist of it was a family trying to stay together and love one other. The villain was...the IRD lol.
 
Lanolin said:
Its probably the whole 'wild west' thing in the US. Guns are seen as cool and necessary weapons.
Here, they are just used for hunting animals.

Very sad about the Christchurch shootings. I remember Aramoana as well. We do have gang violence here, and high rates of domestic violence.
I would not say NZ is particularly safe, other aspects of life are treacherous. We have problems with drunk driving, and our roads are shaky and prone to landslips, and people drown in rivers, but generally, in public, people are not wary and suspicious of each other. We also don't have large predators like the US has bears and Australia has crocs.

Our coasts are more wild though. French terrorists did blow up the Rainbow Warrior, so...its not like NZ is immune, but our anthem says God defends us and people really do believe that.

You watch American movies and the actors always carry guns and play with them like toys. In NZ we're horrified that americans seem to think everything will be solved by a shoot out. But that's what they did in the olden days.
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Hi.

I do not think there are any places on earth where people are fully protected from other people.

We have this thing down here called the "neighborhood App." It is a phone App set up for most neighborhoods that will allow neighbors, as well as the local police, to post incidents that happens in the neighborhood. I live in a fairly stable and "good" neighborhood. In the last two weeks, which has been our school winter recess, the only incident that has been reported is that someone stole someone's dog from their front yard. No police action and no gun play.

As for the gun thing, I too do not know why we here love them so much. They are cool, however.

Rtm
 
Lanolin said:
I watched a movie called 'Everything, everywhere, all at once' it was R13 and just warning you had some violence and swearing. usually I skip movies like that cos there will be shooting in it. But this time, there were no guns it was all kung fu fighting.

It was set in the US but it was focussed on Chinese American immigrants, and, Chinese in general don't carry guns. Even though they invented gunpowder.

It was a bit confusing movie and long, but the gist of it was a family trying to stay together and love one other. The villain was...the IRD lol.
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Hm. I have not seen it, but I have heard of it. As it pertains to being killed, I don't think the person being killed is going to care if it is with a gun, a knife, a baseball bat, or someone's foot. I suspect that a gun would be the least painful, but I do not want to find out.
 
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