Strong delusion

Exactly. God leaves noone behind. Jesus is coming to earth, bringing heaven to earth. i dont know..it seems like you subscribing to some kind of left behind theology like those fictional laHaye books. Unless I read wrong.

The lake of fire...obviously they gonna be burned in the fire. That is hell. Unless you have invented some other kind of hell. What is there now, the fire hasnt even been kindled yet, but mark Jesus words, it will BURN. God will send the fire...and its not just for beast and false prophet, but those he took with them.

Idk major you got some weird theology there. A Hell that doesnt burn...a lake of fire that doesnt do anything...uh...your idea of heaven seems pretty strange too, some far off invisible place christians whisked away to in the air when the Bible says its actually the New Jerusalem coming down...from Heaven.

No Lanolin, you are incorrect. It is not ME that has any weird ideas. I have been doing this for a long long time and I can assure you that what I propose is right from the Word of God. Please read about the things I say because It is however YOU that is not Biblically informed. IF you will study the Word of God carefully you will see how right that is.

Lets just take your comments one at a time for Biblical correctness shall we????

1). You said..........
"God leaves noone behind".

2 Thessalonians 2:8-10..........
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved."

Genesis 6:17.........
"And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die."

Do you believe that is a factual Biblical statement?????? Did God leave the lost sinners of that day behind or not??????


2). You said........
"The lake of fire...obviously they gonna be burned in the fire. That is hell. Unless you have invented some other kind of hell. What is there now, the fire hasnt even been kindled yet."

Luke 16:22-24...........
"The rich man also died and was buried. 23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’

Rev. 20:10.......
"The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Rev. 20:14-16.........
"The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."


3). You said............
"your idea of heaven seems pretty strange too, some far off invisible place christians whisked away to in the air when the Bible says its actually the New Jerusalem coming down...from Heaven."

Matthew 24:30-36.........
"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

1 Thessalonians 4:15 ...............
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words."

1 Thess 5:9 .............
"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ".

1Cor 15:51 ...............
"Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

Revelation 4:1.........
"After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter."

You then said........
"christians whisked away to in the air when the Bible says its actually the New Jerusalem coming down...from Heaven."

Rev. 21:1-4.................
"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,a]' saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God."

This event Lanolin is AFTER the 1000 year rule of Christ on the earth. It is at the "New Heavens and New Earth" time frame. The old earth will be burned up and a New Earth is seen in place. There will still be an earth but was promised Abraham, Issac and Jacob. We Christians were promised heaven and the Jews were promised the LAND.

Rev. 21:1.........
"Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea."

Now as we can see.....it is not my theology or personal idea that is your problem. It is however your lack of Biblical understanding
 
You don't seem to understand that the Church of Jesus Christ will be caught away, and everyone else who is unsaved and alive at the time will be left behind to experience and suffer through the seven-year Tribulation that will come upon the earth.

And that is 100% Biblical truth!
 
Whoseover was not written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Um..pretty obvious that means all the unsaved not just the false prophet and beast.

I dont understand how you could get that part wrong!

Lanolin, the only one who has gotten that wrong is YOU!!! Where are you coming from????? Your comments seem to be confused and delusional.
 
And there we go. See that? Anyone not believing pre-trib is now personally attacked as delusional. If those of us who are post-trib began to go personal, we woud be called out. When I first came to this forum a few years ago and stated I was post-trib, I received a vague threat about how I wouldn't be saying such things if it weren't for a computer screen separating us and how I might be receiving a punch in the face. I was termed heretical.
Lanolin. If you want to hear the other side of the coin on the timing of the rapture, then I would strongly suggest listening to tapes/videos/books by Pastor Tim Warner. He is an expert in Greek and can, and has, debated many pre-tribbers successfully. Youtube has several of his videos and demonstrates that, while the post-trib message has remained virtually unchanged though the centuries, pre-trib has had to keep evolving and changing as post-tribbers punch holes all through that teaching.
The post-trib message is steadily gaining ground in america.
 
Whoseover was not written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Um..pretty obvious that means all the unsaved not just the false prophet and beast.

I dont understand how you could get that part wrong!
The "rapture" happens " just before the tribulation. After the tribulation will be the second coming of Christ in which all the saints will come. Jesus will destroy the beast, and lock up Satan in the pit for 1000 years. Jesus rules earth for 1000 years, and then at the ends of the 1000 years will be the "Great White" throne judgement in which all the unbelievers will be cast into the lake fire.
 
Oh my Lord.
The bible says those that dont believe will PERISH not be left behind. I cant believe I am reading you take scriptures so out of context and inserting your own words to concepts that arent even there even while you post scriptures in plain view and can read them yourself. Lord help you, open your eyes Major.
 
Oh my Lord.
The bible says those that dont believe will PERISH not be left behind. I cant believe I am reading you take scriptures so out of context and inserting your own words to concepts that arent even there even while you post scriptures in plain view and can read them yourself. Lord help you, open your eyes Major.

You are talking about Judgment for the unbeliever. BEFORE Judgment the bible tells us there will be the catching away of the saints (where the unbelieving world remains), then Tribulation, then Jesus comes with His saints to dwell on the earth and rule for 1000 years. THEN comes the final Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked---both alive at the time and the dead.

Study, study, study! Then you will qualify yourself to be able to speak knowledgeably about these events.
 
And there we go. See that? Anyone not believing pre-trib is now personally attacked as delusional. If those of us who are post-trib began to go personal, we woud be called out. When I first came to this forum a few years ago and stated I was post-trib, I received a vague threat about how I wouldn't be saying such things if it weren't for a computer screen separating us and how I might be receiving a punch in the face. I was termed heretical.
Lanolin. If you want to hear the other side of the coin on the timing of the rapture, then I would strongly suggest listening to tapes/videos/books by Pastor Tim Warner. He is an expert in Greek and can, and has, debated many pre-tribbers successfully. Youtube has several of his videos and demonstrates that, while the post-trib message has remained virtually unchanged though the centuries, pre-trib has had to keep evolving and changing as post-tribbers punch holes all through that teaching.
The post-trib message is steadily gaining ground in america.

That simply is not true. Please read Lanolin's comments beginning in #30 and especially #37. Myself and Euphemia have gone out of our way and been careful and loving and helpful to our sister so as to help her but her responses are erratic and have become very confusing. If you will read comment #37 you will see that she was the one who became very personal toward me my brother.
Did YOU read that post???????

Now read, PLEASE comment #41. All you see is Bible verse after Bible verse to respond to her comments in her post #37.
There is NO personal attack there or even mentioned.

As for being threatened, everyone knows that there is always TWO side to every story and If anyone threatened to punch you I am absolutely positive it was because you said something that was abusive to them. Personally, I do not care who believes in the Pre-Rapture debate. I do not try to persuade anyone one way or the other. I post Bible verses and state what I think and leave the rest to God. It makes no difference to me who believes or rejects in the Rapture whether it be a Bible fact or a theory. It is up to every single person to choose what he believes is the truth of God's Word.

If you do not believe in the Pre-tribulation Rapture.................WONDERFUL and my the Lord bless you in your understanding.
If you come to change your mind and accept the Rapture........WONDERFUL and my the Lord bless you in that understanding.
 
You are talking about Judgment for the unbeliever. BEFORE Judgment the bible tells us there will be the catching away of the saints (where the unbelieving world remains), then Tribulation, then Jesus comes with His saints to dwell on the earth and rule for 1000 years. THEN comes the final Great White Throne Judgment of the wicked---both alive at the time and the dead.

Study, study, study! Then you will qualify yourself to be able to speak knowledgeably about these events.

And I agree completely!
 
The "rapture" happens " just before the tribulation. After the tribulation will be the second coming of Christ in which all the saints will come. Jesus will destroy the beast, and lock up Satan in the pit for 1000 years. Jesus rules earth for 1000 years, and then at the ends of the 1000 years will be the "Great White" throne judgement in which all the unbelievers will be cast into the lake fire.

And That is 100% Biblically true my brother.
 
Oh my Lord.
The bible says those that dont believe will PERISH not be left behind. I cant believe I am reading you take scriptures so out of context and inserting your own words to concepts that arent even there even while you post scriptures in plain view and can read them yourself. Lord help you, open your eyes Major.

My dear sister, I am at a loss as to why there is such a communication problem all of a sudden.
I have not and will not ever use Bible verse out of context and I have never ever inserted my own words.

For what ever reason this is taking place, I am withdrawing from this thread as it is clear something else is going on here with you. I do not want to be accused of threatening you or coercing you into what I think the Bible says when I only post Bible verses and I do not want ANYONE to say that I said something of a "personal attack" toward you.

I wish you the best and ask God to bless you and as Euphemia stated.......Study, study, study!
 
Oh my Lord.
The bible says those that dont believe will PERISH not be left behind. I cant believe I am reading you take scriptures so out of context and inserting your own words to concepts that arent even there even while you post scriptures in plain view and can read them yourself. Lord help you, open your eyes Major.

Evidently you do not know about the resurrection. There is not one resurrection but two. One at the rapture of the Church and the second at the end of the millennium. There is 1000 years between the first and the second resurrection.

Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
 
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The first resurrection (rapture) has to do with Jesus taking his Church to where he is. The second coming of Christ has nothing to do with a resurrection, but Jesus destroying the beast and Satan being bound for 1000 years, in which Jesus will set up his earthly Kingdom to rule for 1000 years. At the end of 1000 years Satan is loosed for the last time to deceive the people of the earth, yet he will be thrown into the lake of fire. the second resurrection happens at the end of Jesus 1000 year rein, in which all the wicked shall be judged.
 
I dont wish to debate, but clearly pre-tribbers are so fixed in this belief, that plain reading of scripture is now somehow beyond grasp? I am only saying this cos I dont want anyone deceived.

Unless I actually post the entire letter of Thesssalonians? Would that help?
 
The tribulation is for us to go through..that is why its called tribulation. Gods Wrath is for unbelievers. Wrath will not be on believers.

We are not exempt from trials and tribulations. We live in a fallen world. If you go through the fire, as a believer, you wont be singed, if you an unbeliever, you be burnt up, cos you dont have the living water of the Holy Spirit in you. Its that simple.
 
The tribulation is for us to go through..that is why its called tribulation. Gods Wrath is for unbelievers. Wrath will not be on believers.

We are not exempt from trials and tribulations. We live in a fallen world. If you go through the fire, as a believer, you wont be singed, if you an unbeliever, you be burnt up, cos you dont have the living water of the Holy Spirit in you. Its that simple.

It makes no difference whether you believe in post-trib, or pri-trib, there are still two resurrections.
 
I dont wish to debate, but clearly pre-tribbers are so fixed in this belief, that plain reading of scripture is now somehow beyond grasp? I am only saying this cos I dont want anyone deceived.

Unless I actually post the entire letter of Thesssalonians? Would that help?

Being fixed on Jesus and the word of God is GOOD THING. Obviously you've missed out on the plain reading of scripture. My advice is to really read it and study well, lest you remain open to deception.
 
The tribulation is for us to go through..that is why its called tribulation. Gods Wrath is for unbelievers. Wrath will not be on believers.

We are not exempt from trials and tribulations. We live in a fallen world. If you go through the fire, as a believer, you wont be singed, if you an unbeliever, you be burnt up, cos you dont have the living water of the Holy Spirit in you. Its that simple.

No, the Church will not experience the Great Tribulation, Lanolin. That is the time for God to pour out His wrath on the unbelieving world, for which they will not repent.

Yes, we are PROMISED testings and trials (tribulation) as long as we live on this earth, but we are NOT talking about the normal tribulations of believers.
 
Of course since God sends this strong delusion, I think some people so convinced that they will believe it only because it allows them to get away with unrighteousness. And God can see that.

I suppose Paul was explaining it that way to the Thessalonians cos of this unbiblical doctrine floating round the early church that was sort of like the Millerites, JW adventist teaching we have today of constantly being in end times and standing on mountain waiting for Jesus to come rescue us, cos we dont actually wanna walk the christian walk, we just wanna be outta here. Thats a strong delusion...has anyone ever actually tried to talk to a JW about that?
 
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