The Assembly and the Bride

Euphemia said:
The original language is proof enough that either gate or door is applicable. You can argue until the cows come home, but that doesn't change anything. It just reveals a stubborn spirit.
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One swallow does not make a summer it si said .
One verse then does not prove anything.
But the use of a word in scripture or verse is defined by 'all' of scripture not with itself as in just the one verse.
a number of verses of scriptures has been given which I will search out and will get back on in reply one way or the other either by answers or more questions .
bare with me in patience please.

Thanks

In Christ
gerald
 
Euphemia said:
If you would kindly refer to the original language of the New Testament, you would realize that your points are moot.
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If you cannot explain or prove in english what you say you understand but do not prove in the original langauge. Then to use the original langauge is actually is moot.

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
If you cannot explain or prove in english what you say you understand but do not prove in the original langauge. Then to use the original langauge is actually is moot.

in Christ
gerald
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The original languages used by the Spirit-inspired writers of scripture is what gives me and everyone else the proof and help we need concerning what God is actually saying.

Let Holy Spirit quiet you and lead you onto the truth, Gerald. This has really become a tempest in a teapot.
 
Complete said:
'And the twelve gates were twelve pearls;
every several gate was of one pearl:
and the street of the city was pure gold,
as it were transparent glass.'
(Rev 21:21)

Hi there,

Coming back to the description of the heavenly Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven to the earth: I believe that this description is to be taken literally. So that we do not look at any part of this description and seek to find allusions to Christ or anything else, but take it as it is and simply believe it, and praise God for this glory which is yet to come. For, ' ... Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.' (1 Cor.2:9 )

'And He that sat upon the throne said,
"Behold, I make all things new."
And He said unto me,
"Write: for these words are true and faithful."'

Praise God!
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Sister, this scripture should also be posted along with the next verse as they go together.

1Co 2:9.. But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10.. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
 
geralduk said:
One swallow does not make a summer it si said .
One verse then does not prove anything.
But the use of a word in scripture or verse is defined by 'all' of scripture not with itself as in just the one verse.
a number of verses of scriptures has been given which I will search out and will get back on in reply one way or the other either by answers or more questions .
bare with me in patience please.

Thanks

In Christ
gerald
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Every place the words for gate or door are used in all of scripture, the meaning is revealed by the Spirit of God. It's very simple in this case.
 
Hello @Grant Melville,

Looking through a book I have on number in Scripture, I found this little piece on the 10 virgins, which I thought you may like to see.

THE TEN VIRGINS
represent the whole of the nation of Israel (as distinct from the elect remnant, which is the
Bride); * while the five denotes those who by grace will be able to say, "This is our God, we
have waited for Him."
* The popular interpretation of this parable cannot be the correct one, for we cannot,
in one parable, take two totally different classes of persons as representing one and the
same person. It is impossible to take the Church as represented by both the Ten
Virgins and the Bride! If the Church is the Bride, then it cannot be the Virgins. If the
Church is represented by the Ten Virgins, then it cannot be the Bride. The only escape
from the dilemma is not to read into the Gospel of Matthew that which was the subject
of a subsequent revelation (Rom 16:25,26; Eph 3:1-11; Col 1:26,27); but to interpret
Matthew by what was already the subject of previous revelation in the Old Testament
about the Bride.

I hope you find this interesting.

I do enjoy reading your posts, and catching a glimpse of the steadfast and sure individual behind it: I praise God for that steadfastness, that surety, for He gave it; may you continue to grow in grace and truth and in the knowledge of Him, for His Name and glory's sake.

May His perfect will be done, both in and through you.
In Christ Jesus
Our risen and glorified
Saviour, Lord and Head.
Chris
 
Euphemia said:
Every place the words for gate or door are used in all of scripture, the meaning is revealed by the Spirit of God. It's very simple in this case.
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As I have already said I will reply to the post that lists many and reply with the right response .

in Christ
gerald
 
Given that there are 12 tribes of Israel you will need to explain why or how 10 virgins speaks of all of Israel.

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
Given that there are 12 tribes of Israel you will need to explain why or how 10 virgins speaks of all of Israel.

in Christ
gerald
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Hello @geralduk,

No! I do not have to explain anything. Yet, you have raised a point which could have importance. Why ten? Why not twelve, if Israel is being represented. Ten is the number of ordinal perfection, in Scripture, and five the number of grace. Yet, I will consider this and come back to you.

http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/number_in_scripture_bullinger.pdf

(Above is the a link to the book in question, and you can look up the number ten there if you are interested, Gerald, from page 227 onwards).
THE UNRIGHTEOUS WHO SHALL NOT ENTER
the kingdom of God are enumerated in ten particulars (1 Cor 6:9,10).
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In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Complete said:
Hello @geralduk,

No! I do not have to explain anything. Yet, you have raised a point which could have importance. Why ten? Why not twelve, if Israel is being represented. Ten is the number of ordinal perfection, in Scripture, and five the number of grace. Yet, I will consider this and come back to you.

http://www.bibleunderstanding.com/number_in_scripture_bullinger.pdf

(Above is the a link to the book in question, and you can look up the number ten there if you are interested, Gerald.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
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When I mean you have to explain .I simply meant that if you make an assertion you should to some degree make also an argument to uphold it and also that people might follow and reach the same conclusion if it be true .
I was not ordering you to .
But simply stating the principle of doing so .
Thanks for the link I will also look into it.

Just a quick note as to why I dont think it relates to Israel fro all 10 virgins are looking for the GROOM and waiting for the "MARRIAGE"
The Jews on the other hand are still waiting for the messiah not the groom . and the when the nation of Israel is saved in a day "for they shall see him whom they had peirced" The Lord was already 'married' to the Bride .
As Moses was already married when he revealed himself to his brethren the second time .
As also Joseph.

in Christ
gerald
 
Hello again, @geralduk,

I have had 'thoughts' too, Gerald, in regard to the number. They are poor 'thoughts' at best, and I rely on God's grace, to keep you from considering me foolish, but as this parable concerns entry into the Kingdom, and the Kingdom promised to Israel comprised the land of 10 nations (Gen.15:19,20): with two of the tribes of Israel, remaining on the other side of Jordan, (Ephraim and Manasseh Josh. 14:3), and also considering that not all that are 'of Israel' will be allowed entry, ... ... . (yes, the 'train' of thought is still on-going, when it reaches it's 'station' I will come back). :)

Bare with me, please.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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geralduk said:
Just a quick note as to why I don't think it relates to Israel for all 10 virgins are looking for the GROOM and waiting for the "MARRIAGE".
The Jews on the other hand are still waiting for the messiah not the groom, and when the nation of Israel is saved in a day "for they shall see him whom they had peirced" The Lord was already 'married' to the Bride .
As Moses was already married when he revealed himself to his brethren the second time .
As also Joseph.
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Sorry, @geralduk,

You have lost me, my poor little brain is now well and truly addled.

:)
 
Complete said:
Sorry, @geralduk,

You have lost me, my poor little brain is now well and truly addled.

:)
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My apologies .I had thought as you had mentioned the 10 virgins you would know that they were waiting for the groom to enter into the "marriage "
The Jews are not waiting for the Groom but are still looking for the Messiah .
Moses and Joseph who both were rejected by there brethren the fist time were already married when they came the second.
The Jews will eb saved en mas as it were or" in a day" will be when the whole forces of the antichrist will have surrounded them and they are down to a remnent then they will cry unto the Lord and" he will answer " and become their saviour. As of old .
THEN" they will see him whom they pierced " and be converted .

Paul sought to present the CHURCH as "a chaste virgin" .It is those under the law that he speaks of them as one married . Romans .
It is believers who are l.ooking for the groom not unbelievers who include the Jews .
As I already stated before .The 5 foolish virgins were barred from the " MARRIAGE" which the scrip0ture in this case specifically states.
The wicked and the unrighteous are barred from the KINGDOM.
Two very different things .


in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
As I have already said I will reply to the post that lists many and reply with the right response .

in Christ
gerald
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Read the word, take in the many usages of the words for "door" and "gate", and stand elucidated, friend. Being obstinate about something so obvious is detrimental to you...no one else.
 
Euphemia said:
Read the word, take in the many usages of the words for "door" and "gate", and stand elucidated, friend. Being obstinate about something so obvious is detrimental to you...no one else.
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So far by the scriptures given here . Every time the word GATE is used is related to the external walls of a city or building .
Every time the word is translated DOOR it is in relation to the door of HOUSE a jail .
There is even one instance acts 12 :13 where it is stated the "DOOR OF THE GATE"!
Meaning as is often the case you have every large gates with a small door fitted into the gate for ingress .
For the record . I am not disputing at all that the original word used can be translated DOOR .........................OR..............................GATE .
I am simply saying that it cannot be either in the context of scripture .But one OR the other .
For a door is NOT a gate and the scriptures even the ones you have supplied confirm this .
For it uses the word GATE that is the opening in external walls and it uses the word DOOR for the opening of houses or internal walls .
My original conviction was right and the scriptures that you/others have supplied confirm it .

and any and all who care to do the search themselves will know the truth of it .
Jesus did NOT then say I am the gate , But said "I am the DOOR " and with good reason.

Why that is exactly is for another post .

That is all I am going to say on the matter .
For it is not for me to change my thinking .But your good self .

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
So far by the scriptures given here . Every time the word GATE is used is related to the external walls of a city or building .
Every time the word is translated DOOR it is in relation to the door of HOUSE a jail .
There is even one instance acts 12 :13 where it is stated the "DOOR OF THE GATE"!
Meaning as is often the case you have every large gates with a small door fitted into the gate for ingress .
For the record . I am not disputing at all that the original word used can be translated DOOR .........................OR..............................GATE .
I am simply saying that it cannot be either in the context of scripture .But one OR the other .
For a door is NOT a gate and the scriptures even the ones you have supplied confirm this .
For it uses the word GATE that is the opening in external walls and it uses the word DOOR for the opening of houses or internal walls .
My original conviction was right and the scriptures that you/others have supplied confirm it .

and any and all who care to do the search themselves will know the truth of it .
Jesus did NOT then say I am the gate , But said "I am the DOOR " and with good reason.

Why that is exactly is for another post .

That is all I am going to say on the matter .
For it is not for me to change my thinking .But your good self .

in Christ
gerald
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No. The scriptures explain themselves. We don't come to the word with a preconceived notion. We let God lead our thoughts.

Pastures have gates.





 
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Euphemia said:
No. The scriptures explain themselves. We don't come to the word with a preconceived notion. We let God lead our thoughts.

Pastures have gates.





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Euphemia said:
Then...it follows that Jesus is the gate (or door) for His sheep:

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if you was to remember the sheep go in and out and find pasture .

Plus you are simply refusing to see what the scriptures say themselves .

The reason? Your over reliance on your understanding of the original text and assumign that because it can be translated one OR the other . it can be translated either way .
I suggest that you go and search the scriptures as when a door is used and when a gate is used ,And even when as I quoted the DOOR of the GATE! in acts .

To be accused of simply of being stubborn carnal or argumentative etc on such a simple matter is not only unjust but then by some to say I should submit to 'authority' when the only authority in this case is a miss applied scripture is equally wrong and is positively pre reformation.

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
if you was to remember the sheep go in and out and find pasture .

Plus you are simply refusing to see what the scriptures say themselves .

The reason? Your over reliance on your understanding of the original text and assumign that because it can be translated one OR the other . it can be translated either way .
I suggest that you go and search the scriptures as when a door is used and when a gate is used ,And even when as I quoted the DOOR of the GATE! in acts .

To be accused of simply of being stubborn carnal or argumentative etc on such a simple matter is not only unjust but then by some to say I should submit to 'authority' when the only authority in this case is a miss applied scripture is equally wrong and is positively pre reformation.

in Christ
gerald
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My understanding is clear, and you have been given it as clearly as I can. I see exactly the wonderful imagery that Jesus elicits by His wording.

I am sorry that you cannot. This silly argument is done. Finito.
 
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