The Controversy Between Christ And Satan

the usage in the Isaiah verse would then be a mock by him, at satan for thinking he was God ..

translation from Hebrew to Greek to Latin ..
heylel/halal to xosphoruos to luciferin and luciferose

Phosphorus, (IPA: /'f?sf?r?s/, Greek: phôs meaning "light", and phoros meaning "bearer"), is the chemical element that has the symbol P and atomic number 15. A multivalent nonmetal of the nitrogen group, phosphorus is commonly found in inorganic phosphate rocks.
Due to its high reactivity,

the evolution of lucifer as a word ..

thus lucifer is the English for ..
luciferose which is the Latin for ..
xosphoruos which is the Greek word chosen to translate ..
the Hebrew word heylel ..

so you see, they strayed from the Greek translation meaning ..
"that which shines or glows" ..
it was never meant as a proper name .. but evolved into one ..


personally .. I think the Greek word chosen is questionable due to other OT scripture .. or I should say too 1 dimensional ..
I think "heylel" as most Hebrew words, carries a more "wide open" meaning .. such as a dual meaning in this case ..


note: no OT scripture was ever "authored" in Greek ..
so Greek translations of the OT cannot claim inspiration without question ..
 
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sure .. the word given is a VERB .. not a proper noun ..
it means "to shine" ..
my bible does not use the Latinized word ..

I do not see this as particularly important to my doctrine but it may be important to yours. If so, how does this play out in your understanding? Also if it is a verb, can you put it in its proper context in relation is Isa 14:12? Because it appears it is being used as a noun.

According to YLT it is rendered "12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one , son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations."

In fact, I have not seen one translation use the word as a verb. Strong's (at least in my software) renders the Hebrew word as a noun but does correctly show that it derives from a verb.

Blessings,
MoG
 
Since Satan was locked up in the pit for 1000 years and then at the very end of that time," loosened for a little season".

Why in the world would God do that? Why let him go?

In Revelation, that is when he is about to receive the final judgement. Shortly after Satan is released, Revelation speaks of the second resurrection of the lost and the second death in which all are thrown in the lake of fire/destroyed.
 
I personally don't have a problem with the name, I feel it's more important to study the position he held in Heaven to understand how he works here on earth,

however, anyone want to try and explain this?

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! Isa 14:12

What nations, ...nations before Gen 1:2?

Blessings,

Gene

His weakening the nations were an after effect...
 
Since Satan was locked up in the pit for 1000 years and then at the very end of that time," loosened for a little season".

Why in the world would God do that? Why let him go?

Has he already been locked up? Hmmm? The Bible describes this as happening at the Parousia between the first and second resurrections (so the interpretation depends on ones hermeneutics and ones doctrinal understanding...I side with the early church historic premillennialism not to be confused with dispensationalist premillennialsim). You appear to be somewhat ammillennial. Is this true?
 
so the truth is .. the name "lucifer" was "made-up" in 1611 by the reformist ..

Not true. The Geneva 1587 had it already:

How art thou fallen from heauen, O Lucifer, sonne of the morning? and cutte downe to the grounde, which didest cast lottes vpon the nations?

And the Cloverdale Bible of 1535

How art thou fallen from heauen (o Lucifer) thou faire mornige childe? hast thou gotten a fall euen to the grounde, thou that (notwithstondinge) dyddest subdue the people?

and Bishops of 1568

Howe art thou fallen from heauen O Lucifer, thou faire mornyng chylde? Howe hast thou gotten a fall euen to the grounde, which didst weaken the nations?

Even the Spanish Sagrada of 1569 has it:

Cómo caíste del cielo, oh Lucero, hijo de la mañana! Cortado fuiste por tierra, el que echabas suerte sobre los gentiles.

Another note, the Hebrew word you quoted for Lucifer starts with the letter hey (ה) and has an "h" sound and is not silent. So the word translated as Lucifer in Hebrew is hay-lale' (הֵילֵל) and comes from the root word הָלַל (halal) meaning to be clear; to shine; to boast and not from יָלַל (yalal) which means to howl as you so stated. There is an interesting thing about this word:

Lucifer, son of the morning = הֵילֵל בֶּן-שָׁחַר (literal meaning - Morning star son of black [as in just before the dawn]) – pronounced helel ben shahar. It means "Crescent Moon" in Arabic هلال (copy and paste this into Google images and you'll get a crescent moon)

If you type into Google translate, hilal bin shahar (هلال بن شر) the Arabic translation of this verse and you'll get Crescent Moon son of Evil!

The crescent moon is the symbol and the image of Islam. Arabic uses metathesis (vowel substitution and same consonant shuffling) to generate variations of the same theme. For example, the same is done when transliterating Hebrew word for "Festival of Lights" Hanukah, or Hanukkah, or Chanukah. In Arabic, a great example is Mohamed, Muhammad, Muhammed, and Mahomet. Metathesis first starts in pronunciation. For example in English, the proper pronunciation is "TO", but most Americans say "TA". "LATER" but most say "LADER". UK English still spells it CENTRE but is pronounced CENTER which is the American spelling.

· Hilal means Crescent Moon
· Halil means Crescent
· Halal means [appearance of] New Moon
· Ahillah means Crescents
· Khalil means Friend (Kh being a hard H) (the moon being a "friend" of those at night
· Allah is the moon-god and is the great Hilal in the sky. Ibrahim was a "friend" of Allah the moon-god, and Ibrahim pilgrimage was to Haran, the City of the Moon. (A rip off story of Abraham.)
· Hilal - hard "h" sound - means "dwellings" and another word for the Kaaba (black cube building in Mecca) and the crescent-shaped wall on northwest side of the Kaaba is called Hatim.
· Ihlal is the name of a ceremony around the Kaaba
· Hilah means Ruse and is the means which one can circumvent the sharia'a law.
· Halal meat that has been processed correctly by killing while invoking the name of Allah and killed with a crescent-shaped knife - Halal means the food is permissible to eat and is stamped with a crescent symbol. During the hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca), the sacrifice is to be made facing the crescent-shaped Hatim wall.

Starting to sense a pattern? Just my 2 cents.
 
Yes, Lucifer first appears as a mistranslation of the Latin lux ferre which itself was a mistranslation of heylel...Jerome was trying to get them to understand by concept not a literal translation...you will not find the word Lucifer as a name in any ancient Greek manuscript...and yes though Jerome attests to having referenced the best Hebrew manuscripts of his day, do not foregt the influence on Christianity through the Septuagint...
 
I'm just pointing out the error of the statement.

I believe the biggest error people have about the devil is that "he's the ruler of hell". No, he's the power of the air. He's never been there that I can find in Scriptures. In fact, he'll be cast out of heaven in the tribulation period. However, people who have died and gone to hell say they've seen demons there, so who knows. The scriptures say nothing about anyone other than humans being there.
 
I'm just pointing out the error of the statement.

I believe the biggest error people have about the devil is that "he's the ruler of hell". No, he's the power of the air. He's never been there that I can find in Scriptures. In fact, he'll be cast out of heaven in the tribulation period. However, people who have died and gone to hell say they've seen demons there, so who knows. The scriptures say nothing about anyone other than humans being there.

Yes he is certainly not the ruler in Hell...he will ever be a powerless captive there...
 
Has he already been locked up? Hmmm? The Bible describes this as happening at the Parousia between the first and second resurrections (so the interpretation depends on ones hermeneutics and ones doctrinal understanding...I side with the early church historic premillennialism not to be confused with dispensationalist premillennialsim). You appear to be somewhat ammillennial. Is this true?

No sir.....I was referring to the future, Rev. 20. My mistake.
 
I'm just pointing out the error of the statement.

I believe the biggest error people have about the devil is that "he's the ruler of hell". No, he's the power of the air. He's never been there that I can find in Scriptures. In fact, he'll be cast out of heaven in the tribulation period. However, people who have died and gone to hell say they've seen demons there, so who knows. The scriptures say nothing about anyone other than humans being there.
_____________________________________________________________________

The devil is the ruler of nothing, except those who do obeisance to him. He has never been in hell because he hasn't "died".
Satan has already been cast out of heaven when "...iniquity was found in you...". (Eze. 28:15) Lucifer was not cast out of heaven as a punishment, but because nothing contrary to Holiness can stand in its presence!
Rev. 12:7-8 __ "...Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found in heaven." The devil and his angels were fighting to regain their "first estate...their own habitation..."; but lost that war also. So when the devil was cat out, it was to the earth, "...and his angels with him."

I do not believe that anyone has gone to hell (place of eternal torment) and come back to testify of it. Perhaps a "vision" of hell, to return and repent of sins/evil?
 
Ok.

Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 16:19-31.

And some demon are indeed in hell, it's their prison... I found the verse:

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
 
Ok.

Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 16:19-31.

And some demon are indeed in hell, it's their prison... I found the verse:

2 Peter 2:4 (KJV) For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;


OK: which "hell"?
 
Here is something to think about Gene. Since the fall of Satan is seen yet future in Rev 9:1, does it seem then that the prophet Isaiah is speaking to the PRESENT tense with the assurance of the future fulfillment of his prediction. He sees the Babylonian kings trying to ascent to heaven by the claim that they would make for themselves their own kingdom. So then, Isaiah pictures them as falling from heaven, just as certainly as Lucifer himself shall one day fall under the judgment of God.

Could be Major, could be he was detailing the life of satan, beginning to finish, guess we'll have to wait 'til we are there to know for certain.

Why in the world would God do that? Why let him go?

Because those that will enter the Millennium will be the sheep from the sheep and goat judgement, satan will be imprisoned for 1000 years, we will be the judges and people will live very long lives, now the first generation will know how it was during the dispensation of Grace (6th) and/or the dispensation of the Tribulation (7th) and will be living in the eighth dispensation, however their children won't know of the other two dispensations, probably, after five, ten, fifteen generations the grand kids will be tired of hearing grandpa talking about how it was in the past, (when I was a kid I walked 5 miles to school in the snow or rain, remember those stories and how we tired of hearing about the Depression) they will be living in perfect conditions here on planet earth, so, just like God's purpose for the other dispensations, to show that man is wicked, satan will be released so that those living during the Millennium will have the choice to receive or reject Jesus, sadly we read those that are deceived by him are as numerous as the sands of the sea, ...how sad, after living 1000 years with Jesus, perfect conditions....., man's heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked; who can know it?

Thank you Jesus for saving a wretch like me!!!

Blessings,

Gene
 
It is a nice story, but where is the scripture support? Eze 28:16 says Lucifer " sinned" and 1 John 3:4 tells us that sin is the transgression of God's law. So how could it be that there was no "law" again iniquity when sin is the very act of breaking God's law? Also how could it be that Lucifer cannot be punished when it says specifically in Eze 28:18 that Lucifer will be devoured and brought to ashes upon the earth? Please provide scriptural support for your position. Thank you and God Bless.

Of course there were laws...the sustenance of all creation depends on laws...they just were not Torah laws (the 613 or the 10 commandments) which were not given to anyone before Horeb. In Deuteronomy Moses by God's command reminds the children of Israel the Covenant He made with THEM...(it is the ten commandments)...He had not made this Covenant with their fathers (Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and so on)...they (and no one else) was bound to them...

The law Satan broke was the law of obedience...he exalted himself above God (acted as his own lord) and did what was right in his own eyes...
 
Of course there were laws...the sustenance of all creation depends on laws...they just were not Torah laws (the 613 or the 10 commandments) which were not given to anyone before Horeb. In Deuteronomy Moses by God's command reminds the children of Israel the Covenant He made with THEM...(it is the ten commandments)...He had not made this Covenant with their fathers (Noah, Shem, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and so on)...they (and no one else) was bound to them...

The law Satan broke was the law of obedience...he exalted himself above God (acted as his own lord) and did what was right in his own eyes...


I can see your anxious to talk about the law. We will get to it in due course. I promise.
 
Dearly Beloved who have given their soul to Christ,
Let me introduce myself.
I am Satan's Messenger, handed my life to suicide's claws. And my soul for the devil's bidding.
He would greatly find pleasure in me informing you all that he is DELIGHTED that thou enjoys playing his game.
He would also like me to remind everyone that if God is real then He is too.
Choose your words wisely young ones.
God is infinitely, eternally, at all times, out of time, in every way, infinitely more powerful than all things combined.
Gods people are infinitely, eternally, at all times, out of time, in every way, infinitely more powerful than all evil.
All my faith, hope, trust, and belief, is in God.
I Olivia declare Satan powerless against God's people.
Love is more powerful than evil.
Good is more powerful than evil.
All curses, burdens, sin, sorrow, and suffering is ineffective against me, all I know, and all reading this.
A hedge of protection that blocks all harm surrounds me and all I know, and all reading this.
All curses and evil are lifted from this website.
All who read this post be blessed in the life of Christ, living in God's Spirit where there is not evil.
 
God is infinitely, eternally, at all times, out of time, in every way, infinitely more powerful than all things combined.
Gods people are infinitely, eternally, at all times, out of time, in every way, infinitely more powerful than all evil.
All my faith, hope, trust, and belief, is in God.
I Olivia declare Satan powerless against God's people.
Love is more powerful than evil.
Good is more powerful than evil.
All curses, burdens, sin, sorrow, and suffering is ineffective against me, all I know, and all reading this.
A hedge of protection that blocks all harm surrounds me and all I know, and all reading this.
All curses and evil are lifted from this website.
All who read this post be blessed in the life of Christ, living in God's Spirit where there is not evil.
Also
It is impossible at all times and in eternity for those reading this post to be hexed, cursed, or have evil put upon them.
Written in truth.
 
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