I was speaking with a friend the other day in regards to the things of God. In the midst of the discussion, I made a statement about the love that God had for me. Now my friend, comes from one of the more legalistic groups , and it seemed he was very offended that I had spoken of Gods love for me. I seen the countenance of face turn almost into hate, as he attempted to rebuke me in that I would dare to boast in Gods love for me. I used Johns example of how he confessed Gods love for him on personal level, and that he taught us that our ability to love others is directly related to our ability to accept and receive Gods love for us (on a personal level). The truth is that we will never love others on a personal level above our ability to know Gods love in a personal way. Thankfully my friend understood and his kindness toward me returned. I told him, "Kenny, I know how much God loves you, because I know how much God loves me, all I do is just love you as He loves me".
The Divine Nature
- Thread starter Mitspa
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Thats it Mitzpa...thats the whole enchalada...love on....forgive them as He forgave you...grace them as He graced you....
When I was delivered by the Lord, there was a love that was poured out to me, that makes we weep to even think of. Now this love was so real and so strong to me, that I could not understand why others did not understand how great it was to know His love. I knew many did not seem to have this profound awareness, as I did at that time. So I thought maybe I was special in some way? I thought I must have some value to God that others did not have. I looked and looked and the more I looked the less I found any reason for God to love me. I looked for value in myself and I found none. But one of the greatest of revelations came from this rather disappointing search? I began to understand that my value was not in that I had earned anything of Gods love, but my value was that God loved me. That was my worth and my sense of importance in the big picture of creation. God, the Almighty One, loves me. what can I do to add to my worth or value that would compare to that?
I have had similar experience (as I am sure many have) and I agree, nothing can compare to such an often incomprehensible love..some of the people we have shared it with recognized it was not human in origin.
Let me give a short testimony...I was told once by an alcoholic that we took in for a while (Michael, from Kentucky) that no person(s) he had ever met accepted him like he was and treated him so kindly (it was all God)...He lived with us for about 4 months till he found other arrangements...he loved us back and never forgot us always coming to visit and bring us stuff (which we did not need but received with thanks)...we eventually networked him into services and got him an operation for his long injured back...he stayed an alcoholic for about 10 years, but then he got lung cancer. People prayed and prayed and he got healed in almost no time at all (considering his lifestyle the doctors thought he would be dead) and he confessed his sins and asked Jesus to save him...then about 3 years later developed throat cancer and died following the operation...
There was nothing in our nature that worked to take this man in or help clean him up...we were poor and had three little children...but somehow God filled us with compassion for this one...
Let me give a short testimony...I was told once by an alcoholic that we took in for a while (Michael, from Kentucky) that no person(s) he had ever met accepted him like he was and treated him so kindly (it was all God)...He lived with us for about 4 months till he found other arrangements...he loved us back and never forgot us always coming to visit and bring us stuff (which we did not need but received with thanks)...we eventually networked him into services and got him an operation for his long injured back...he stayed an alcoholic for about 10 years, but then he got lung cancer. People prayed and prayed and he got healed in almost no time at all (considering his lifestyle the doctors thought he would be dead) and he confessed his sins and asked Jesus to save him...then about 3 years later developed throat cancer and died following the operation...
There was nothing in our nature that worked to take this man in or help clean him up...we were poor and had three little children...but somehow God filled us with compassion for this one...
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Amen, Beloved. The Lord is still working in His Church.
The Lord said "those who are forgiven much love much" love is the fulfillment of all the laws of God. The more a believer understand the magnitude of Gods forgiveness and the absolute cleansing power of His Grace, the more godly they become. Now many would say "oh if you teach grace, someone might sin"? No the strength of sin is the law "legalism" is what has made the church so full of ungodliness. Jesus is always right, and his ways are beyond the natural mind of man to understand. It is in the confidence that we are clean, that we learn to live holy.
Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Only when we are confident in Gods righteousness given freely to us, do we find the victory over our weaknesses. Abide in His grace and you can never fail, if you stumble He will pick you up. Only a return to self-righteousness can cause a believer to fall from grace.
Tit 2:11 ¶ For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age,
Only when we are confident in Gods righteousness given freely to us, do we find the victory over our weaknesses. Abide in His grace and you can never fail, if you stumble He will pick you up. Only a return to self-righteousness can cause a believer to fall from grace.
Kind of had an odd thing happen to me the other night on my drive home from work. Not sure how this relates to the divine nature but I guess it could, in a big picture kind of way? I have traveled this road thousands of times, (from work to home) but there was a very thick fog on. Now at one point I lost all ability to perceive where I was in relation to my journey home. I mean I know every street and every house, and lights etc.. on this road, and I could not relate to anything I was seeing. It got a little weird for me! Now I felt the Holy Spirit begin to teach me something about some of the things I have been "going through" lately? Walking in the Spirit, walking in faith, can be like this sometimes. We are used to seeing those things that let us know "where we are" The things that guide us and comfort us in our walk. I am use to God, doing this at that a certain way, and when it does not happen the way I "think" God will do it? It brings some confusion to me and makes me question things, and a bit uneasy. As I have considered this event and what I believe God was saying to me through this, the scripture comes to mind over and over "we walk by faith and not by sight". I also felt the Lords assurance that I am indeed on the right road, (on my way Home) not to panic when everything is not always clear, its ok to be cautious but never stop and wait on the fog to clear. Move forward "I am with you until the ends of the world"
I have made some really big mistakes since I came to the Lord. I hate some of these things and regret the weaknesses that I see I am very capable of. I know that of myself, I am a wretched man. If I could go back and do it over I would not have made some of these mistakes (but probably would have made others). I find that in these mistakes, I have learned a great deal about the love that God has for me and others? I was a bit zealous in my early walk, I fasted every week, prayed long hours and was a bit judgmental of those who did not seem to keep the standards that I had set in my own mind. I made little room for those "Christians" who seemed to me to be halfhearted and lacked the zeal that I had. The devil always has a snare for those who are not "really" trusting in Gods grace. I did not know the grace of God, in the context of sound doctrine. I knew a mixture of law and grace, it was part me and part God. God held up His end but I failed to hold mine. Now in all this, I found out what unconditional love really means. I was loved by God not based on my zeal or holiness but based upon His desire to love me. The desire to love others , will allow us to love in new ways. When Gods conditions of love for us is understood, then we will have the pattern by which we can love others. I cannot say that my love for others is unconditional, but I can say that I have Gods desire to love.
Let us consider the Nature of God? God is light and God is Love. One might say that God loves in truth? Now if I or you where a Being that was Love and being that was Truth? We would desire above all things to share that love but it would have to be based on the truth. Thus we have "I AM THE TRUTH" It is through Christ that God accounts us as being in the truth, for we have no truth of our own. We have all been made liars through Adam. So God desires to love us, this is foundation of all that can be known and understood. Without knowing that its God desire to justify and love us, the gospel (good news) will not be understood and accepted as it should. The flesh (Adamic nature) is in a condition of blindness, hiding from God in shame and guilt. Trying to cover its shame in fig leaves of religion. The gospel washes away this guilt and shame and allows us to walk before God as He intended, confident in His goodness toward us and having no confidence in ourselves. Here is why Paul wrote these things:
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
14 ¶ For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Ro 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
If one can see that God is love and have through the Spirit witnessed the Love of God working through them onto others, then the purpose of the Law of Moses becomes clear? Man does not have the nature of Gods love, man is not what God first intended for man. God gave the law of Moses to show us that we are in this fallen condition. The law was to show us we do not love and do not know love which is Gods nature. This is the intention of God through the New Testament, to bring us into His nature of love. Here is the mystery of godliness, the very nature of God, working through us as we understand the truth. Grow in grace and knowledge.
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Beloved, the purpose of the Law is to defeat satan, though most men do not understand that.
The Lord our God is a Masterful God: He used all His wisdom and understanding, and counsel and might to plan and bring to pass
that which we now see and barely begin to understand.
There are two primary reasons for everything God has done: to express His love in man; but first, He had to do away with iniquity and sin. Not that there was sin in heaven (eternity), but of the sin and iniquity that was to come. So He prepared a place for iniquity; and where iniquity could not corrupt eternity.
Did God not know that satan would use the Law to cause man to sin? Of course He did; otherwise, He could no more be God!
All the laws; all the do's and dont's were planned to trap satan in his own guile. You see, they were enacted after satan was
created: so he could not be judged by them. While GRACE was established before man was created and sinned: so that man could be redeemed! And yes: the Law was our tutor until God could express His love toward man, by sacrificing the one He
loved the most.
Beloved, walk holy before the Lord.
Mr Villa there is a thread with this discussion going on, and I see you could provide no scripture to any of your points ? And God did not know something? Boy even though He is the Beginning and the End, the Great I am, He was surprised by the devil? lol The One who knew us before the foundations of the world and had the Lamb slain before time was, was hoodwinked by satan? No Mr Villa you are again in the place of error.
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I cannot believe what you wrote! You bring a nice testimony, and then your other personality takes over. This is not the first time it's happened. Nevertheless...
Where did I even hint that "God did not know something", or that "He was surprised by the devil...hoodwinked by satan"? Sir,
you have what I have written before you: pray tell, where did you get that notion? I asked a question: "Did God not know...?"
I then answered: "Of course He did!" I'm sorry. We are not speaking the same language. You have listened to too many preachers in their modernist doctrines. Those men are not preaching the Gospel of the apostles and prophets and the Lord asks them: "...you have eaten up the good pasture, but you must tread down with your feet the residue of your pastures? and to
have drunk of the deep waters, but you must foul the residue with your feet?"
How can a person obtain the "Divine Nature" and not understand the Gospel? For we are called to be "...conformed to the image of His son...". How can a person be conformed if one does not know the Gospel? I understand that all babies require is milk
and honey: but a baby must grow up and mature in the things of the Lord!
Sir, if you had seen what I have seen...the Lord, He is God.
First, I see I failed to read the rest of your statement and for that I am sorry. The Lord dealt with gentleness with those who where sincere in heart, to the weak He became a Servant. But to the religious and the hypocrites, He became an unmoving testimony against their hard hearts and hypocrisy. You have over and over again declined honest and sincere discussion in the truth, you have attempted to teach as doctrines, standards that you do not and cannot keep yourself. It is very much the Divine Nature to rebuke and confront such things, just as the Lord did, Just as Paul rebuked Peter for his hypocrisy. Just as Peter rebuked those who strayed from the truth. I have not to this point Mr Villa been harsh with you, but have tried to treat you with the thought that you are product of what has been taught in the church. That your errors are those of one who has been led into error by many years of tradition.
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I must say Mr Villa, I responded to your post here on this thread, in part in response to some things you had tried to affirm on another thread. I did not read your post and see the entire statement and context of what you where trying to say. For this I am in error. Seeing this post was at the same time as another post in which you where trying to suggest that the believer is judged according to the law of Moses, I assumed as I read your first few words, that you had continued that line of error unto this thread. In that I did not read your whole post and consider what you where saying "in this post" I was in the place of error.
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You apologize, and then you begin a tirade against me: not judging what I wrote, but on your assessment of me. Sir, that is not even original. But, apparently, you seem to believe that that is the "Divine Nature". But you say that you stand in the shoes and Jesus, of our Lord Jesus, and my Brother Paul, who "rebuked Peter for his hypocrisy". I'm sorry, but I really don't believe that your feet are that big. And now you claim that I am a "product of what has been taught in the church...by many years of tradition." Sir, you do not even know my testimony: or from where the Lord has brought me! And you, sir, do not have the gift of "...the word of kowledge by the same Spirit...". I do not see a gift operating in you.
Let me ask you: did the Lord teach you the gospel by the Holy spirit, and was that gospel confirmed by "... the mouth of two witnesses or three..."; that same gospel being in agreement with the Lord's apostles and prophets? The answer is no! You just
jumped out of one denomination and into another. You were taught that you were saved by believing: " by faith are you saved, through grace." You should have taken heed to K. Hagin's preaching before he passed away! He was preaching my Gospel! Even the Gospel that teaches us: "...by grace are you saved, through faith...". Ask KH's son what his dad preached before he died. He did not just admonished the "faith" teachers: KH preached the Gospel to them! But $$$ is a big obstacle to overcome.
Walk in the Gospel, Beloved.
I apologize for not reading your post, but not for standing against the errors you have attempted to present as truth to others.
And I would rebuke an Angel from heaven that taught a gospel or doctrine contrary to grace and that which Paul preached. If you will remember the issue with Peter and with those who presented a false gospel was that they where trying to mix law and grace, which you have done over and over. So I am standing in the place that God has appointed, kick as you like you will only wear yourself out.
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Again, you say you stand against "errors you (that's me) have attempted to present as truth to others": but you, Sir, have neglected
to (1) point out the errors; and (2) point out truth in comparison to error. You are, in effect, just shouting: "I am right; therefore you are wrong." I have consistently pointed out that the "gospel of faith" is in error: a man can never be saved by "faith through grace": which you seem to be preaching. The scriptures reads, "For by GRACE are you saved through faith...". Listen: Abraham was not justified because he believed in God; rather, he was justified because he believed in God's promise! The scriptures state: "Abraham believed God..."; not believed in God! I repeat: Abraham believed in God's promise.
Sir, the Apostle Paul did not rebuke any angel: he said "...but though we, or an angel from heaven, preach unto you another gospel than the one we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received, let him be accursed." My Brother Paul knew that neither he nor an angel from heaven would preach another gospel; and he was referring only to the gospel that they (the Galatians) had received: even the true gospel. There was no rebuke: it was a curse. Nothing can be added to Paul's warning: not even your "rebuke".
You are accusing me of mixing "law and grace" because I do not receive your "gospel of faith through grace". Well, let's see what you will do with the following scripture: "Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For this promise is unto you...". Was the Apostle Peter
filled with the Holy Spirit, or in derect rebellion against the commandments of the Lord? Or did the apostle misspeak? Either way, the eleven other apostles would have to be just as guilty as Peter, because Peter, "...standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice...". Now if Peter and the eleven erred, that means Jesus also erred because he chose them and taught them wrong doctrine; that is, if the apostles were wrong!
No sir, you are wrong. You are teaching the wrong gospel: because it does not line up with the Gospel Peter, John, Paul, and the other apostles and disciples preached. It doesn't matter how many in this forum agree with you: you will only be pleasing them and not the Lord. If you truly love, receive and then preach the Gospel that saves.
No sure of your question? Of course all should be baptized, but the truth of scripture does not end with this passage and it is through the complete understanding of Gods word that baptism is understood. Even in that Paul said God did not call him to baptize but to preach the gospel and that the gospel is that which saves. Baptism only serves the gospel. Yes and according to Paul's words I would rebuke an Angel from heaven that preached another gospel. (if through God grace I was allowed to stand and speak what is true)
You know Mr Villa your post towards me are becoming more and more hostile, be carful that you do not damage your witness on the forum.
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So you understood my reasoning, and yes, "the truth of scripture does not end with this passage". And no, it is not solely about baptism. But as to the question, you do not seem to believe the apostles and disciples were mistaken. That is a good beginning to
be "...perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."
Now lets look at the Apostle Paul and his thoughts on baptism.
(1) Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles; (2) part of his calling was to overcome the principalities and powers in a region and to establish the Church there; (3) he did not just preach the Gospel; (4) Paul taught the doctrines of the Lord; (5) Paul also established the Ministry for the Church; (6) Paul worked in conjunction with the prophets of the Lord; (7) Paul used disciples (men mature in the faith) to baptized the converts; (8) Paul never minimized nor reject the commandment to baptize.
Paul said he did not baptize because he knew men would adhere to him instead of the Gospel: "...that there are contentions
among you...one of you says, 'I am of Paul, ; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.'...lest any should say that I baptize in mine own name." Paul did not put baptism first, but the preaching of the Gospel: which also agrees with the Lord's
own words: "He that (1) believes and is (2) baptized shall be saved." No beloved, baptism serves "He that is baptized...".
No, there will never be a need for you, or any other man, to rebuke an angel from heaven; the preaching of the Gospel is not committed to them: it is committed to man. When the angel of the Lord appeared to Cornelius, the angel did not preach the Gospel to him, but told Cornelius to send for the man that would tell him what to do. Don't think of yourself so highly, Beloved; there will come a time when the Church will judge angels: but not now.
Now you say I am becoming more hostile: I have been given a harder head than you!
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