that is why i posted it so other can learn . i have discussed this so many times .. did email correspondence with a guy wanting to convert me to Calvinism. this went on for weeks till he gave up..i countered scripture for scripture . he tried but no cigar
The Doctrine of "Free Will"
- Thread starter Musicmaster
- Start date
then you separate like infected animals or unruly pupils . they make it hard
Easier said than done brother.
you can have mine i dont even like the smell
LOL...........That is almost what my wife said. She uses a different word!
not really i been mod you have tools . i just left a post on solo scripture word for word . but they had to add to..
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it didnt use to bother me
Right, some believe God calls everyone (which would make 'predestination' nonsensical) and others believe God effectually calls some (the elect).
he most certainly is NOT willing any should perish but all come to repentance and wants all men to be saved
1 Timothy 2:4
i believe he gives all all a chance not all will accept
Well, not exactly. You see, there are those who believe that man is totally incapable of even desiring to follow Christ (total depravity) without the Lord first giving to them that ability, so that they then turn to Him. Such a belief ignores the fact that ALL men have a conscience given that we are all made in His Image. Those aspects of our being seems to have no bearing in their thoughts in support of God's perfect justice. They sacrifice justice on the altar of God's Sovereignty. The outflow from that is, of course, a teaching that makes God into a monster (IMHO).
People enter into Hell because of their own choice to allow their sin to remain upon them rather than to desire Christ and His free offer of salvation. God doesn't put them there, they go there of their own free will. THAT is what makes the punishment just.
So, the idea of God sovereignly choosing to give to man a choice somehow violates His Sovereignty, I have yet to read or hear an honest, biblical answer to that.
Matthew 13:18-23
18 "Therefore hear the parable of the sower:
19 "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand [it], then the wicked [one] comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside.
20 "But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
21 "yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
22 "Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.
23 "But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands [it], who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."
Do you see...the seed was cast upon ALL, and the type of soil or rock is that which they chose for themselves. Nowhere does the word of God point out that the Lord made some to be like the "stony places,", or to be in among the thorns.
That's why it's always important to observe what is actually said in God's word, and what is NOT said in God's word when compared to all the injections many people force into the word of God what is simply not there.
MM
Predestination is mentioned only in four places throughout the Bible in the NKJV, and yet it is hammered as if it were so vastly important and of such prominent consideration in some circles, that they even divide over it.
I've created this thread to help drive people into the word of God, so that in doing so, they may learn more about Him in His Perfection, and draw ever closer to Him by knowing even more about His perfect justice and perfect Love.
It is through tears that I've look upon the horrific divisions that this topic has proven instrumental in perpetrating, and therefore keeping many from seeing how glorious the Lord is in the handiwork of His creation of mankind..
MM
The division part is true, but is it due to the topic or to man's carnal blindness and biases?
i m not M M but your answer is yes and no . when people become indoctrinated many of them are Dogmatic . i worked with a man who was independent baptist .. the General Baptist had it wrong . even some of the southern baptist was wrong. we even had a independent baptist in the town we worked .. they felt they was to liberal . they had the right Bible the right hymns .
i dont know what drives people to the greater than thou status
its not what Christ taught in john 17 one in Him. the answer is not in the denomination or the none or the stay at home do it on there own crowd.. its in HIM we will not give account how could church name or no church going its all about Christ . lets face it there is division in all. who wants to admit there wrong
here we go this is another side of the coin the answer to all this depends on who you ask .
www.desiringgod.org
Is Double Predestination Biblical?
Does the Bible teach that God has predestined some to disobedience and destruction, just as he has predestined some to salvation?
www.desiringgod.org
the division is created by Man its in this forum also
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We understand that Belief System Difference exist between members, HOWEVER angry replies and demeaning other person's beliefs is not the way to go. Please be KIND to one and other and if any disagreements start up, a simple statement of, "We shall agree to disagree" will end the issue as you move on.
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Probably both!