Glomung
Account Closed
They are very kind pagans.
The Existence Of Hell
- Thread starter Flavio
- Start date
They are very kind pagans.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Was that really necessary?
Universalists don't believe in hell. Are they evil as well? I don't see how your view on hell makes a difference when you're following Christ.
Glomung
Account Closed
Necessary? When did truth become unfashionable?
Universalists are painfully ignorant. Is it evil to promote falsehood? If so, they are evil.
If one is "actually following Christ" I would assume that they would follow Christ's doctrine on Hell (and not make up their own).
Well Christ mentioned Gehenna and Hades and the pit a number of times. Are these make believe, or are they vacation spots near the equator?
Huntingteckel
Inactive
It doesn't matter if you think they are ignorant. They believe they are interpreting the Bible to the best of their ability.
Which doctrine of hell is correct? There are many.
No need to be smart. I'm not a Universalist, so I'm not going to attempt to defend their position. They say there are many texts that show hell is just a temporary place, which I partially agree with.
Glomung
Account Closed
They are doing a very poor job. Only so much can be written off as ineptitude.
Wide is the way that leads to perdition. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation, and few are those that find it.
There is everything that anyone needs to know about Hell.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
So your interpretation is the correct one? That's pretty arrogant.
That answers little to nothing about hell but rather that many people do not find salvation. That pretty much answers no one's questions about hell.
Let's settle this, if you believe the word of God. Forget the translations since everyone has done a fine job of doing away with cartoon version, let's go to Jesus' own words - whatever this place is called.
Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Parable: a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Every one of Jesus' parables could be understood to the listener with an open heart using common themes: sow/reap to agricultural society, rich/poor their status in life, love/hate emotions we all experience. Yet in this one Jesus describes hell (our translated word), His definition of it (bolded above). Jesus used the word Hades, which is also the name of the god of the underworld, so is it Pluto? It's also translated as the grave, death and hell. So if the acts we do, sow/reap, the status we're in, rich/poor, and the emotions we experience love/hate, what other meaning can this story tell? If hell wasn't a place of torment burning with fire, then why did Jesus come and die for us so we don't have to go there? Sure people have used it to scare people, but I'm sorry, if I know there's a place like that, I wouldn't want to go there. Some fools need to be scared to act, Pro 17:10! Does hell exists? You bet and it came from Jesus' own mouth.
Here's the first mention of hell in the scriptures:
Deuteronomy 32:22 (KJV)
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Here the word is Sheol and is translated underworld, grave, hell, pit. So, here we have levels of Sheol. What are we to do with that?! Does this then mean the depth of our grave, 6ft vs 10ft or 3ft? At what point does something have to be experienced in order to have faith it exists? Then are we all not hypocrites because we've not see with our eyeballs God Almighty? What of those who have? Do we dismiss them as crazy or having a hallucination? When will we have an epiphany that the reason no one wants to admit there's a hell is they don't want to go there because they want to remain in their sins? That's the real truth here. If there's no hell, there's no consequences for sin. If we water down and dismiss the truth, then why not just accept evolution and be done with "God" altogether? We just can't sit on the fence or be tossed to and fro like the waves of the sea. We must, in this life, have a foundation of Truth and over and over I see that the foundation eroding from "Christian" lives. I like the old saying, "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything."
I relinquish my soap box
Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Parable: a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Every one of Jesus' parables could be understood to the listener with an open heart using common themes: sow/reap to agricultural society, rich/poor their status in life, love/hate emotions we all experience. Yet in this one Jesus describes hell (our translated word), His definition of it (bolded above). Jesus used the word Hades, which is also the name of the god of the underworld, so is it Pluto? It's also translated as the grave, death and hell. So if the acts we do, sow/reap, the status we're in, rich/poor, and the emotions we experience love/hate, what other meaning can this story tell? If hell wasn't a place of torment burning with fire, then why did Jesus come and die for us so we don't have to go there? Sure people have used it to scare people, but I'm sorry, if I know there's a place like that, I wouldn't want to go there. Some fools need to be scared to act, Pro 17:10! Does hell exists? You bet and it came from Jesus' own mouth.
Here's the first mention of hell in the scriptures:
Deuteronomy 32:22 (KJV)
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Here the word is Sheol and is translated underworld, grave, hell, pit. So, here we have levels of Sheol. What are we to do with that?! Does this then mean the depth of our grave, 6ft vs 10ft or 3ft? At what point does something have to be experienced in order to have faith it exists? Then are we all not hypocrites because we've not see with our eyeballs God Almighty? What of those who have? Do we dismiss them as crazy or having a hallucination? When will we have an epiphany that the reason no one wants to admit there's a hell is they don't want to go there because they want to remain in their sins? That's the real truth here. If there's no hell, there's no consequences for sin. If we water down and dismiss the truth, then why not just accept evolution and be done with "God" altogether? We just can't sit on the fence or be tossed to and fro like the waves of the sea. We must, in this life, have a foundation of Truth and over and over I see that the foundation eroding from "Christian" lives. I like the old saying, "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything."
I relinquish my soap box
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
How do you know you have God's truth, and other Christians don't?
It is written that one must study to show yourself approved before God...I don't seek the approval of any man and only God will decide in the end those who has kept His truth. In this I am confident, but this confidence cannot be explained, it must be earned from God.
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
I don't know...I see this over and over and over, they quote scripture, then you quote it, but they have it wrong and you have it right. No one person can be right about these things every single time, no matter how perfect they deem their own understanding to be. There should be room for humility.
I agree, some issues are not as clear as others. But some issues are made very clear and evident by simply reading of the words that have been written. It dont bother me that others have views that differ from mine, but when those views are clearly contrary to the evident truth of scripture then a discussion or debate is the process we have to hash the matter out. In old times they just killed one another, in our times we state our beliefs and allow that others have the right to be have their opinion. If that "opinion" is not subject to the challenge of the scriptures, then one can safely assume that opinion is wrong.
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Let's settle this, if you believe the word of God. Forget the translations since everyone has done a fine job of doing away with cartoon version, let's go to Jesus' own words - whatever this place is called.
Luke 16:19-31 (KJV)
There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Parable: a simple story used to illustrate a moral or spiritual lesson, as told by Jesus in the Gospels.
Every one of Jesus' parables could be understood to the listener with an open heart using common themes: sow/reap to agricultural society, rich/poor their status in life, love/hate emotions we all experience. Yet in this one Jesus describes hell (our translated word), His definition of it (bolded above). Jesus used the word Hades, which is also the name of the god of the underworld, so is it Pluto? It's also translated as the grave, death and hell. So if the acts we do, sow/reap, the status we're in, rich/poor, and the emotions we experience love/hate, what other meaning can this story tell? If hell wasn't a place of torment burning with fire, then why did Jesus come and die for us so we don't have to go there? Sure people have used it to scare people, but I'm sorry, if I know there's a place like that, I wouldn't want to go there. Some fools need to be scared to act, Pro 17:10! Does hell exists? You bet and it came from Jesus' own mouth.
Here's the first mention of hell in the scriptures:
Deuteronomy 32:22 (KJV)
For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.
Here the word is Sheol and is translated underworld, grave, hell, pit. So, here we have levels of Sheol. What are we to do with that?! Does this then mean the depth of our grave, 6ft vs 10ft or 3ft? At what point does something have to be experienced in order to have faith it exists? Then are we all not hypocrites because we've not see with our eyeballs God Almighty? What of those who have? Do we dismiss them as crazy or having a hallucination? When will we have an epiphany that the reason no one wants to admit there's a hell is they don't want to go there because they want to remain in their sins? That's the real truth here. If there's no hell, there's no consequences for sin. If we water down and dismiss the truth, then why not just accept evolution and be done with "God" altogether? We just can't sit on the fence or be tossed to and fro like the waves of the sea. We must, in this life, have a foundation of Truth and over and over I see that the foundation eroding from "Christian" lives. I like the old saying, "If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything."
I relinquish my soap box
Sheol is the same as Hades and righteous people go there as well(Jacob and Job said they were going there) . The KJV did a terrible job translating a lot of things, and this is one of them.
Regardless, the final judgment hasn't happened so no one is in hell anyway at the moment.
How do you know this?
Huntingteckel
Inactive
Which part?
Huntingteckel
Inactive
What would be the point of the final judgement if we are judged immediately after death?
From my understanding, Luke 16, the lost go to hell. Paul says we go to heaven and the final judgement is when those in hell, and hell itself are thrown into the lake of fire in the final judgment. Just my take.