The Existence Of Hell

I don't agree with using scare tactics to bring people to Christ.


I know what you mean but I wouldn't call it scare tactics. If it is the truth, say it - even if it's scary or politically incorrect.

What's even more terrifying: most people are going to hell, not heaven. Even the Bible says it:

For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7: 14)
 
[...] Threats of hell don't show a loving god, they show an evil one.

I have to disagree.

I'm a high school teacher and this reminds me of a student of mine who kept skipping classes the whole year to be with her boyfriend; she expected to get away with it because Mr Flavio was 'very kind'. Well, I'm not paid to be kind, I'm paid to be just and fair. I warned her and her mother countless times but she didn't correct her ways and in the end I had to flunk her.

Does that make me a bad teacher or a mean person? No, I honestly don't think so. I'm sorry she didn't pass but my conscience is clear and I know I made the right decision.

I guess it's the same with Hell. Most of us will go there not because God wants to but because we keep disobeying His commandments and ignoring His warnings.
 
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Well Christ mentioned Gehenna and Hades and the pit a number of times. Are these make believe, or are they vacation spots near the equator?

It is interesting that you mention this. Gehenna is actually a physical valley outside of Jerusalem, which was used as a metaphor for a "spiritual" destination of evil souls. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

Hades is not necessarily the same as Hell. Specifically Hades is the common grave or underworld which ALL people were cosigned to before the coming of Christ. Among their ranks were Hebrews who specifically resided in a comfortable section of Hades known as Abraham's Bosom.

Now, as far as the Lord's Words, in speaking about Gehenna, and also through the Epistles, there can be disagreement because of how it is read, yet each different reading still manages to hold on to the concept of Biblical infallibility. For instance, Paul gives a list of sins which will bar someone from entrance into the Kingdom. Now, there are three ways to look at this. One can read that list as exhaustive (that is these are the only sins that will bar someone) as definitive (that is these sins will definitely damn someone, without exception, but that there are others as well) or as advisory (that is these are sins that a Christian must work towards repentance). Now, the first guy who things it is an exhaustive list says, "The Bible is the Word of God, so if God meant for other sins to be mentioned He would have mentioned them here." The second guy says, "Well yeah, but we know from other scriptures that there are still other sins that could damn someone." And finally the third guy says, "There is nothing special about these sins, it was the attitude of unrepentance that Paul was addressing. God judges your heart."

Now, as it pertains to hell, people can do the same thing when reading the words of our Lord. Some can read it like a law book, others read it as a guide book. What I do think is apparent, however, is that there is something that exists for unrepentant sinners, and whatever this is, is eternal. However, now drive the focus of faith from being about legalistically avoiding hell, to now being about how to please God and grow closer to Him.
 
I noticed some post in this thread mentioned Hell as eternal. I thought after judgment if one didn't pass it was Poof, into the fire you go. Done, game over, toast.

Rev. 20
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
I noticed some post in this thread mentioned Hell as eternal. I thought after judgment if one didn't pass it was Poof, into the fire you go. Done, game over, toast.

Rev. 20
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

'Pass the test' is a bit rudimentary in thinking. Particularly the point is to align one's will with God's.

As far as your premise or line of thinking goes here, it sounds like annihilationism. Since scripture seems to be inconsistent with this question at times it is likely that the true meaning is mysterious.
 
I noticed some post in this thread mentioned Hell as eternal. I thought after judgment if one didn't pass it was Poof, into the fire you go. Done, game over, toast.

Rev. 20
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
That's the view of Conditional immortality or Annihilationism. That's the view I hold.
 
I don't know...I see this over and over and over, they quote scripture, then you quote it, but they have it wrong and you have it right. No one person can be right about these things every single time, no matter how perfect they deem their own understanding to be. There should be room for humility.
Well, what scripture would you like to quote? We are open to see what you have had revealed to you.
 
Is that relevant? I am entirely comfortable with two people having two different interpretations of scripture. I believe it is Mitspa who does not.
What I was asking was, what specific scripture(s) do you use to form your beliefs on hell? I think it is very relevant since our opinions should be based on the Bible's teachings.
 
What I was asking was, what specific scripture(s) do you use to form your beliefs on hell? I think it is very relevant since our opinions should be based on the Bible's teachings.
I don't really know what I believe regarding hell actually. My message to Mitspa was urging him to consider several points of view on the matter.
 
Several early Christians believed in universal reconciliation. Among them included St. Maximos the Confessor, and the Church father who ultimately wrote the Nicene Creed. There has only been one rather narrow form of universalism condemned and that was purported be Origen. He taught rather dogmatically that even Satan and demons would ultimately be reconciled. But, honestly even this was not the promotion of his anathematization. Moreover, he taught a disdain for the Old Testament Canon which ultimately brought him to resemble the Gnostics.

Otherwise, even as the Orthodox faith was being qualified, universalism was an acceptable view, provided it was not taught dogmatically (thereby encouraging people to sin) and that it maintained the main essential articles of faith. The main reason for this is because even the most hellish proponent must recognize that we simply do not know what is at the end of the tunnel. We only have the inspiration through scripture which is not altogether definitive on the subject, i.e. what is the punishment? Some have purported that hell has different "levels" and have gone as far as to say that the less severe levels, commonly called Limbo, for moral pagans and unbaptized infants, is a perfectly comfortable place albeit separated from God.

Mostly what people object to is the notion that temporal sins, however heinous, are still just that, temporal. So how is it just punishment to endure eternal torture? That is why I believe that hell is not so much "punishment" for one's sins, it is a consequence of it. How well someone has aligned their will with God's determines how painful or joyous His love for them will be.
 
Does it matter what people think or even believe if the word of God says otherwise? Either the word of God is true or it isn't. If it isn't then why bother with anything written? If it isn't all true but some is, how can anyone know which is true? Why is it then that we even call ourselves Christian if it were not for the word of God?
 
Does it matter what people think or even believe if the word of God says otherwise? Either the word of God is true or it isn't. If it isn't then why bother with anything written? If it isn't all true but some is, how can anyone know which is true? Why is it then that we even call ourselves Christian if it were not for the word of God?

I feel like in my post I gave you a sincere apology for where the universalist school of thought comes from, even from scriptural and patristic tradition, yet your only response is to simply say that it goes against the word of God?

This is what is so frustrating about literalists, you have no respect for how the Bible has been traditionally used in Christian doctrine. You hide your doctrine behind Biblical infallibility, and you simply just don't believe that you can ever be wrong. That is not how it was used in the early Church.

I have said it before, and I will say it again, these schools of thought DO NOT believe contrary to the Bible, they believe something contrary to YOUR interpretation of the Bible. And since you've rejected doctrinal arbitration by the magestrium, you have to respect that any doctrine grounded in Biblical and traditional authority is just as valid as your own.
 
'Pass the test' is a bit rudimentary in thinking. Particularly the point is to align one's will with God's.

As far as your premise or line of thinking goes here, it sounds like annihilationism. Since scripture seems to be inconsistent with this question at times it is likely that the true meaning is mysterious.

I just look at scripture for what it says. All to often people try to put some sort of spin on it. Usually to accommodate themselves or some underlying agenda. I've found a lot of Christians claiming things that aren't even scriptural, like that there were 3 wise men that came and gave Jesus gifts at his birth, or that a soul is eternal.

Burning up the chaff. How complicated is that?

And please don't take this as a rant, on you or anyone else, it's just my thoughts on the matter.

 
I just look at scripture for what it says. All to often people try to put some sort of spin on it. Usually to accommodate themselves or some underlying agenda. I've found a lot of Christians claiming things that aren't even scriptural, like that there were 3 wise men that came and gave Jesus gifts at his birth, or that a soul is eternal.

Burning up the chaff. How complicated is that?

And please don't take this as a rant, on you or anyone else, it's just my thoughts on the matter.
Respectfully, that might be enough to go by if you are a Bible-only Christian, but many of us are not.
 
Respectfully, that might be enough to go by if you are a Bible-only Christian, but many of us are not.

I take the Word of God for the Word of God, but I also look into other writings- Enoch, Jasher, and secular writings that describe things like the start of a church by Simon the sorcerer who was mentioned in acts.
 
Several early Christians believed in universal reconciliation. Among them included St. Maximos the Confessor, and the Church father who ultimately wrote the Nicene Creed. There has only been one rather narrow form of universalism condemned and that was purported be Origen. He taught rather dogmatically that even Satan and demons would ultimately be reconciled. But, honestly even this was not the promotion of his anathematization. Moreover, he taught a disdain for the Old Testament Canon which ultimately brought him to resemble the Gnostics.

Otherwise, even as the Orthodox faith was being qualified, universalism was an acceptable view, provided it was not taught dogmatically (thereby encouraging people to sin) and that it maintained the main essential articles of faith. The main reason for this is because even the most hellish proponent must recognize that we simply do not know what is at the end of the tunnel. We only have the inspiration through scripture which is not altogether definitive on the subject, i.e. what is the punishment? Some have purported that hell has different "levels" and have gone as far as to say that the less severe levels, commonly called Limbo, for moral pagans and unbaptized infants, is a perfectly comfortable place albeit separated from God.

Mostly what people object to is the notion that temporal sins, however heinous, are still just that, temporal. So how is it just punishment to endure eternal torture? That is why I believe that hell is not so much "punishment" for one's sins, it is a consequence of it. How well someone has aligned their will with God's determines how painful or joyous His love for them will be.
That was very interesting, thanks.
 
Several early Christians believed in universal reconciliation. Among them included St. Maximos the Confessor, and the Church father who ultimately wrote the Nicene Creed. There has only been one rather narrow form of universalism condemned and that was purported be Origen. He taught rather dogmatically that even Satan and demons would ultimately be reconciled. But, honestly even this was not the promotion of his anathematization. Moreover, he taught a disdain for the Old Testament Canon which ultimately brought him to resemble the Gnostics.

Otherwise, even as the Orthodox faith was being qualified, universalism was an acceptable view, provided it was not taught dogmatically (thereby encouraging people to sin) and that it maintained the main essential articles of faith. The main reason for this is because even the most hellish proponent must recognize that we simply do not know what is at the end of the tunnel. We only have the inspiration through scripture which is not altogether definitive on the subject, i.e. what is the punishment? Some have purported that hell has different "levels" and have gone as far as to say that the less severe levels, commonly called Limbo, for moral pagans and unbaptized infants, is a perfectly comfortable place albeit separated from God.

Mostly what people object to is the notion that temporal sins, however heinous, are still just that, temporal. So how is it just punishment to endure eternal torture? That is why I believe that hell is not so much "punishment" for one's sins, it is a consequence of it. How well someone has aligned their will with God's determines how painful or joyous His love for them will be.
Well let's put it this way... You step on an ant, no big deal right? You kill a frog, that is a little more cruel. Kill a dog, it is very cruel and illegal. Kill a human, what is wrong with you!

I hope you see that our sin is in proportion to who or what we sin against. We know that every sin we commit is ultimately towards God. Who is infinitely greater than everything.

So if we die in our sin, God, who is just, will have no choice but to punish our souls eternally.
 
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