The Importance of Repentance
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Boanerges(Inactive)
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Perhaps the dog is chasing his tail on this thread
- you know going around in circles saying the same thing-
- you know going around in circles saying the same thing-
PreciousMessage
Inactive
We humans are slow, that's why God repeats Himself so often.
Greetings, something to consider:
We have the 4 gospels, Many parables are repeated, yet that is the beauty of God's word. Oh, how often we can share some thought from the bible and build on it, seeing another thought that will enlighten others, (as long as it does not negate God's word). This would be a building up of faith, to be so grounded nothing will separate us from the love of God.
After all , that's what I hope this forum is all about, to come into the unity of faith.
John
Perhaps the dog is chasing his tail on this thread
Greetings, something to consider:
We have the 4 gospels, Many parables are repeated, yet that is the beauty of God's word. Oh, how often we can share some thought from the bible and build on it, seeing another thought that will enlighten others, (as long as it does not negate God's word). This would be a building up of faith, to be so grounded nothing will separate us from the love of God.
After all , that's what I hope this forum is all about, to come into the unity of faith.
John
PreciousMessage
Inactive
Repentance does not atone for sin
Regarding repentance,
Many years ago I had some ideas about repentance that did lead me to despair at times. The reason being I thought by repenting this would atone for my sin, but this is, according to the Bible not the case. The master forgave the servant for his debt, but the debtor wanted to "pay the king back." The king forgave him anyhow, yet the servant did not appreciate it, thus he did not really "believe." He wanted to pay for his sins by his works.
Many make the mistake of thinking that repentance is of such value as to atone for sin, but that can't be. Repentance can't be accepted as the atonement. Even repentance cannot be possible without the influence of the Spirit of God. Grace must be imparted, therefore the atoning sacrifice of Christ must be a benefit for man before he can repent. In other words, Christ is already the "Savior of all men" according to scripture. Sadly, many will not take this into the heart and follow the Lord.
It is firstly the "faith OF Jesus" that avails objectively for all men by His great act of Calvary. Secondly, "faith IN Jesus," subjectively, is the grace imparted to us to believe He is our personal Savior. Galatians 2:16 points out the two fold work of Christ, (faith OF Jesus and faith IN Jesus).
John
Perhaps the dog is chasing his tail on this thread
Regarding repentance,
Many years ago I had some ideas about repentance that did lead me to despair at times. The reason being I thought by repenting this would atone for my sin, but this is, according to the Bible not the case. The master forgave the servant for his debt, but the debtor wanted to "pay the king back." The king forgave him anyhow, yet the servant did not appreciate it, thus he did not really "believe." He wanted to pay for his sins by his works.
Many make the mistake of thinking that repentance is of such value as to atone for sin, but that can't be. Repentance can't be accepted as the atonement. Even repentance cannot be possible without the influence of the Spirit of God. Grace must be imparted, therefore the atoning sacrifice of Christ must be a benefit for man before he can repent. In other words, Christ is already the "Savior of all men" according to scripture. Sadly, many will not take this into the heart and follow the Lord.
It is firstly the "faith OF Jesus" that avails objectively for all men by His great act of Calvary. Secondly, "faith IN Jesus," subjectively, is the grace imparted to us to believe He is our personal Savior. Galatians 2:16 points out the two fold work of Christ, (faith OF Jesus and faith IN Jesus).
John
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Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
True there is no payment for our sin but the blood of Jesus and when He forgives He promises to forget- we should do the same and move on with Him.
And by the way no disrespect was intended, I just thought the same points were being brought up over and over with no conclusion.
And by the way no disrespect was intended, I just thought the same points were being brought up over and over with no conclusion.
Great post John. Thanks!
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
"You don't need to get cleaned up to take a bath"- Mike Warnke
Perhaps we can agree on this- when we accept the sacrifice of Christ for our sins our life begans to change and it is a natural progression to walk away from all the thing in our old life that held us so tightly bound- we are to:
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Perhaps we can agree on this- when we accept the sacrifice of Christ for our sins our life begans to change and it is a natural progression to walk away from all the thing in our old life that held us so tightly bound- we are to:
Mat 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
Hebrews 6:1
Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
PreciousMessage
Inactive
Repentance through the Spirit
I like that statement by Mke Warmke, never heard it before! And yes, we can agree when we accept the sacrifice of Christ, not just a mental assent, but actually a genuine faith (John 3:16), then God will work in us through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Although if I may say softly. I don't believe it's necessarily a "natural progression." Our nature does not change when "born from above." Even Christ did not live a sinless life naturally, but through faith in His Father. For He came in the likeness of sinful flesh.
"I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish" Galatians 5:16, 17. Naturally we wish to do those things that are are contrary to the Spirit of Christ. By nature we are the children of wrath. We can of ourselves do nothing.
blessings,
John
I like that statement by Mke Warmke, never heard it before! And yes, we can agree when we accept the sacrifice of Christ, not just a mental assent, but actually a genuine faith (John 3:16), then God will work in us through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Although if I may say softly. I don't believe it's necessarily a "natural progression." Our nature does not change when "born from above." Even Christ did not live a sinless life naturally, but through faith in His Father. For He came in the likeness of sinful flesh.
"I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish" Galatians 5:16, 17. Naturally we wish to do those things that are are contrary to the Spirit of Christ. By nature we are the children of wrath. We can of ourselves do nothing.
blessings,
John
I think I agree. It is not a natural progession but a spiritual one.
Genesis 1:26 . . . "And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness . . ."
Spiritually we are already like Christ, but the flesh gets in the way. That's where faith comes in. We must be strong enough in our faith to allow Christ to show forth in our lives; whether anyone else approves or not.
Thanks everyone! This discussion has truly helped me understand a few things better. I appreciate the responses more than you know.
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
It can certainly be a natural progression but only if you are walking in your new nature and not the old - as we become renewed in our minds by the Spirit of God and the Word of God our body will follow!This is the path of abiding in the vine- we abide in Him, His life flows in and thru us and we bear much fruit.
Many times people are saying the same thing but in different ways- I apreciate all of my brothrs and sisters here and respect your opinions and your walk with Christ- bother Larry
- as we become renewed in our minds by the Spirit of God and the Word of God our body will follow!This is the path of abiding in the vine- we abide in Him, His life flows in and thru us and we bear much fruit.Many times people are saying the same thing but in different ways- I apreciate all of my brothrs and sisters here and respect your opinions and your walk with Christ- bother Larry
Amen Brother Larry! :israel:It can certainly be a natural progression but only if you are walking in your new nature and not the old
Many times people are saying the same thing but in different ways- I apreciate all of my brothrs and sisters here and respect your opinions and your walk with Christ- bother Larry
PreciousMessage
Inactive
To know Christ more richly will bring a deepening of repentance
Yes, the flesh does get in the way, may we allow the Holy Spirit to subdue the flesh, (our sin nature, sarx). And yes, man was made in the image of God. Amen.
Something to consider which brought great peace, how truly Christ can sympathize with us, and how close He is near us humanly speaking:
There are many that say Christ lived with no "inner conflict" to deal with, like us. But according to scripture He assumed a nature that required painful self-denial-something unknown to sinless Adam.
Christ willed to make choices, it involved the complete denial of "I" or "self." The Greek word thelema used in Ephesians 2:3 of "the desires of the flesh" is the same as that "will of My own" that Jesus says He denied (John 5:30;6:38). Indeed, Jesus was "unlike us" in this respect-we have "fulfilled" those desires of the flesh." He denied them. Now we can look to the cross in a meaningful way. Christ's true identity with us becomes our identity.
The real issue in Christ's earthly life was not that He could be tempted or that He was subject to the possibility of falling as Adam did; the issue was, could Christ resist Satan and defeat temptation, the principle of self-seeking, in the likeness of our own sinful nature, (Rom. 8:3), yet without ever acting on it, which He never did, He was perfect in performance and character.
"Therefore, in ALL things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest ... For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in ALL points tempted as we are, yet without sin" Heb. 2:17; 4:15.
When we understand how closely He truly is to us in our humanity, we can "come boldly throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need" because just as we suffer at times so greatly in the flesh, "He himself suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted" (Heb. 4:16: 2:18).
As we see who Christ truly is, repentance will deepen, it will no longer be skin deep, for that only brings skin deep repentance. Our faith will be stronger and our love will grow.
John
Yes, the flesh does get in the way, may we allow the Holy Spirit to subdue the flesh, (our sin nature, sarx). And yes, man was made in the image of God. Amen.
Something to consider which brought great peace, how truly Christ can sympathize with us, and how close He is near us humanly speaking:
There are many that say Christ lived with no "inner conflict" to deal with, like us. But according to scripture He assumed a nature that required painful self-denial-something unknown to sinless Adam.
Christ willed to make choices, it involved the complete denial of "I" or "self." The Greek word thelema used in Ephesians 2:3 of "the desires of the flesh" is the same as that "will of My own" that Jesus says He denied (John 5:30;6:38). Indeed, Jesus was "unlike us" in this respect-we have "fulfilled" those desires of the flesh." He denied them. Now we can look to the cross in a meaningful way. Christ's true identity with us becomes our identity.
The real issue in Christ's earthly life was not that He could be tempted or that He was subject to the possibility of falling as Adam did; the issue was, could Christ resist Satan and defeat temptation, the principle of self-seeking, in the likeness of our own sinful nature, (Rom. 8:3), yet without ever acting on it, which He never did, He was perfect in performance and character.
"Therefore, in ALL things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest ... For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in ALL points tempted as we are, yet without sin" Heb. 2:17; 4:15.
When we understand how closely He truly is to us in our humanity, we can "come boldly throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need" because just as we suffer at times so greatly in the flesh, "He himself suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted" (Heb. 4:16: 2:18).
As we see who Christ truly is, repentance will deepen, it will no longer be skin deep, for that only brings skin deep repentance. Our faith will be stronger and our love will grow.
John
PreciousMessage
Inactive
The sinful flesh condemned-Amen!
Hi Larry,
I know your meaning, we can become renewed in our minds and our body will follow in the light of the cross, and as you say, "abiding in the vine." Very good.
Of course, as we know, we can never live independently of the Lord: we need not think that this body is going to be converted. We cannot make corruption incorruption. This corruption will put on incorruption when the Lord comes; not before.
Our fallen natures will be with us until corruption puts on incorruption. We do not want to confound our sinful nature with the Spirit of God. There is nothing inherently good in us, ever, as you well know.
Again, our minds can be converted, not through necessarily "natural progression," even though I believe I know what you mean, but by the "supernatural power" of the Spirit of God. A creative and redemptive power, if you will.
Again, even after conversion, our nature still remains fallen until corruption puts on incorruption. Hence, we stay away from the idea of the immaculate conception. Truth lies close to error, they run on parallel paths.
That's why the author of Hebrews urges us to "consider" Jesus, the Greek word (Katanoeo) meaning to "perceive clearly," intensively, to "understand fully, closely."
Christ came in the "likeness of sinful flesh." Christ's nature was like ours, yet without sin until He condemned it on the cross. He did not try and make the flesh (nature) better or good, but destroyed it by his death on the cross.
John
It can certainly be a natural progression but only if you are walking in your new nature and not the old
Many times people are saying the same thing but in different ways- I apreciate all of my brothrs and sisters here and respect your opinions and your walk with Christ- bother Larry
Hi Larry,
I know your meaning, we can become renewed in our minds and our body will follow in the light of the cross, and as you say, "abiding in the vine." Very good.
Of course, as we know, we can never live independently of the Lord: we need not think that this body is going to be converted. We cannot make corruption incorruption. This corruption will put on incorruption when the Lord comes; not before.
Our fallen natures will be with us until corruption puts on incorruption. We do not want to confound our sinful nature with the Spirit of God. There is nothing inherently good in us, ever, as you well know.
Again, our minds can be converted, not through necessarily "natural progression," even though I believe I know what you mean, but by the "supernatural power" of the Spirit of God. A creative and redemptive power, if you will.
Again, even after conversion, our nature still remains fallen until corruption puts on incorruption. Hence, we stay away from the idea of the immaculate conception. Truth lies close to error, they run on parallel paths.
That's why the author of Hebrews urges us to "consider" Jesus, the Greek word (Katanoeo) meaning to "perceive clearly," intensively, to "understand fully, closely."
Christ came in the "likeness of sinful flesh." Christ's nature was like ours, yet without sin until He condemned it on the cross. He did not try and make the flesh (nature) better or good, but destroyed it by his death on the cross.
John
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
If one walks close to the Master the supernatural is the natural- even of that is considered a rarity in this day and age I personally believe that is what we are all called to do and therefore I ( personally of course) consider this a natural progression- just an observation not a point of contention
PreciousMessage
Inactive
sin, temptation, suffering.
Thanks for your thoughts; and here is some food for thought, speaking softly:
Will it be natural for us to "suffer" in the heavenly kingdom? God is neither the author of sin, suffering or temptation. Hebrews 2:18. All suffering is the result of Adam's fall, the sin problem, hence his fallen nature and the posterity of all mankind. Neither is God the author of our fallen nature, which is the "law of sin and death." These tragedies have never been intended by God to be part of our "natural progressions."
God has creative and redemptive powers, none of which are "natural" to us, for we do not have them. "There is none who seeks after God." "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." By nature the heart is evil, and "who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." Job 14:4. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned," 1 Cor. 2:14.
If we say walking with God is natural, then perhaps you have not a fallen nature to be tempted, because a sinless nature does not involve suffering. Suffering is not natural in the true sense of the word, it was the result of the sin problem. And this was result of Adam's fall and not God's natural doing.
Yes, it is true, the scripture states, it's easy to be saved and hard to be lost, (Matt. 11:28-30),yet because of the sin problem, the supernatural things of God will not be fully fulfillied until the "restoration of all things."
John
If one walks close to the Master the supernatural is the natural- even of that is considered a rarity in this day and age I personally believe that is what we are all called to do and therefore I ( personally of course) consider this a natural progression- just an observation not a point of contention
Thanks for your thoughts; and here is some food for thought, speaking softly:
Will it be natural for us to "suffer" in the heavenly kingdom? God is neither the author of sin, suffering or temptation. Hebrews 2:18. All suffering is the result of Adam's fall, the sin problem, hence his fallen nature and the posterity of all mankind. Neither is God the author of our fallen nature, which is the "law of sin and death." These tragedies have never been intended by God to be part of our "natural progressions."
God has creative and redemptive powers, none of which are "natural" to us, for we do not have them. "There is none who seeks after God." "That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." By nature the heart is evil, and "who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one." Job 14:4. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned," 1 Cor. 2:14.
If we say walking with God is natural, then perhaps you have not a fallen nature to be tempted, because a sinless nature does not involve suffering. Suffering is not natural in the true sense of the word, it was the result of the sin problem. And this was result of Adam's fall and not God's natural doing.
Yes, it is true, the scripture states, it's easy to be saved and hard to be lost, (Matt. 11:28-30),yet because of the sin problem, the supernatural things of God will not be fully fulfillied until the "restoration of all things."
John
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
Guest
It is the inner man who seeks God for he is :
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
So if I walk in the spirit I naturally do the things of God- if of course I choose to walk in the flesh I have the opposite expierience- so is it natural for us - it depends on our walk and decisions
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
So if I walk in the spirit I naturally do the things of God- if of course I choose to walk in the flesh I have the opposite expierience- so is it natural for us - it depends on our walk and decisions
PreciousMessage
Inactive
Not I, But Christ
It would not be "I" doing those things "naturally." It is God in Christ through the Spirit that are doing those things in you.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me" Ga. 2:20.
It is the Spirit doing those good things, not you. It is not, "I plus Christ." ... It is "not I, but Christ." Why? Because you're dead, you have been crucified with Christ. "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain" Phil. 1:21
"Now he who has died has been freed from sin." Rom. 6:7. Again, we are not trying to improve on our fallen nature by making it better, through Christ, if you will, but it has been condemned objectively in Christ.
John
It is the inner man who seeks God for he is :
Eph 4:24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
So if I walk in the spirit I naturally do the things of God- if of course I choose to walk in the flesh I have the opposite expierience- so is it natural for us - it depends on our walk and decisions
It would not be "I" doing those things "naturally." It is God in Christ through the Spirit that are doing those things in you.
"I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me" Ga. 2:20.
It is the Spirit doing those good things, not you. It is not, "I plus Christ." ... It is "not I, but Christ." Why? Because you're dead, you have been crucified with Christ. "For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain" Phil. 1:21
"Now he who has died has been freed from sin." Rom. 6:7. Again, we are not trying to improve on our fallen nature by making it better, through Christ, if you will, but it has been condemned objectively in Christ.
John
B
Boanerges(Inactive)
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See if you can find any info on the triune man- it may help you understand-