THANK YOU.
The judgment seat of Christ: Dividing wheat from tares by works.
- Thread starter Godhelpus
- Start date
THANK YOU.
My love offering address is...........BR549!
Bob said I could put it on his tab.
not going there if people would respond right it could be a great topic ..ive seen it to many times go south
I'd say that Billy Graham's take is the closest to common ground, at least for me. On the one hand, he confirms the assurance of faith in Jesus Christ, while also acknowledging the Lord's right to judge His people.
His conclusion is that there will be those at Jesus' judgment seat, who have denied Him, and so will be rejected by Him as unbelievers.
2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
He does not include being judged an unbeliever by bad works, but I do by the Scripture: Tit 1:16They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him...
In any case, we agree that there will indeed be some at Jesus' judgment seat, that are rejected as unbeliever. No believer wants to think ill of a borther or sister, and we shouldn't. And all believers want to trust that all naming Christ will be resurrected unto life in the eternal family of God.
Unfortunately, the Bible record and warning is clear: Not all believers do good, but willfully do evil. Beginning with Cain slaying his brother Abel.
1Jo 3:11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
No matter what the doctrinal difference, this is of course the right way to walk in the fear of the Lord. It's not for self-doubt, but only for proper self-judgment:
1Co 11:29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
Psa 2:11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Tit 3:14And let ours also learn to maintain good works for necessary uses, that they be not unfruitful.
We are simply careful not to take His Spirit for granted, and to maintain our good walk with Him. It's what any sensible and responsible believer does by His grace.
Exactly.
Mat 6:34Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
All confessed and repented sins are forgiven and forgotten, and will not at all be mentioned at His judgment seat. But, since there will be bad deeds also at His seat, then it can't be said that all is forgotten, and so not all is forgiven, whether we repent or not.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Brother forgiven, 2 Corinthians 5:11 can not be used to support what our brother is saying.i realize this entire post is one sided..i hope this dont break the golden cowbut knowing the terror of the Lord
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. Paul using the word terror there should be some reverence . in following this post i can see good point in all
very true however to give account of the good and bad, what do we say to the bad ? in the testing by far paul compares us to be a wise master builder. so what will we give account if we have used wood hay or stubble ? claim the 5th ?
The "fear" used there is used in the ancient sense of respectful awareness, the way mature adults have a "healthy respect [fear]" of things like fire or electricity or a rattlesnake on your doorstep.
At the Bema seat of Christ, the idea of "terror or fear" which Godhelpus is implying just does not exist.
Paul described in the previous verse why he lives in "fear of the Lord." He is aware that once this life is over, every heaven-bound believer will have his or her works judged by Christ. All we have done in our bodies on this side of eternity will be shown to be worthwhile or worthless, in service of Christ or serving only ourselves. At the Bema seat I believe that you know that Each believer will be rewarded or reprimanded based on his or her choices. Paul's reverent awe for Christ, whom he represents as an apostle, motivated him to keep carrying the gospel of salvation to more and more people in order to receive Christ's commendation at that judgment.
This brings the theme of 2 Corinthians back to a defense of Paul and his co-workers. They are genuine in their work for Christ, a fact apparently being challenged in Corinth. Paul writes that God knows what they are, meaning that God knows their mission, their motivation, and the fruit that has come from that. Paul adds that he hopes his readers know, in their conscience, what he and his co-workers are, as well. He hopes the Corinthians are fully convinced about the genuineness of the work Paul and those with him have done among them.
i know we have hashed this out and its ok...i fail to find the bema seat of rewards a judgement of heaven or hell... the white throne judgement will determine that . either enter in or depart from me.
while i do hold to the security of our salvation a true blue child of God will and should make things straight with the Lord .. after all we are indwelt by the spirit of truth 1 john 3:;20 -21 tells us and can be used as a guide the prodigal son shows us he came to his senses
. i cant copy and paste anything right now.. something is going on with my right click ..it does not work .. when our son comes in i will put his p.c mind to work .. some bugs come up and had do some cleaning .. he ran another scan so something got undone..
You said...........
"My reading of Scripture is that there will be both good and bad at both, with some judged unto life, and others unto shame. The main difference is that only servants naming His name will be at His Bema judgment. But at the GWT, there will be all the wicked of history, and His millennial kingdom servants."
No brother that is not correct.
Only born again believers will be at the Bema Seat of Christ. ALL of them will be judged and ALL of them will have eternal life in Heaven. Some will receive more rewards than others because they did more for Christ than others but ALL will go to heaven.
There will actually not be any "good or bad" believers at the Bema seat. There will be some believers who did more deeds than others and will be rewarded, but the term "good and some bad" simply does not exist.
Hebrews 10:17............God makes an amazing promise to anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ: ......
“Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more”.
At the GWT judgment, ALL of the lost of ALL the Ages will be judged and ALL of them will go to hell.
Rev. 20:11-15 tells us that those Appearing before the great white throne will be unbelievers and ALL of them will go into the Lake of Fire.
reverence is respecting / giving honor what he can do.. we reverenced our parents 1.out of love 2. we also knew what they could do.. there is also chastisement that falls into the family of words .
you dont feel there should be some fear why would paul say we pursuade men. i meet you part wat way but part way i dont .. thats not being arguing ..its just disagreeing.. please understand my use of the word reverence nobody that is a christian/ born again wants to live a sinful life on purpose.. yes we will sin we will fall short no one can live it walk it breath it perfectly .. once again just like we want to honor our parents in not doing wrong..
but at some point we will maybe to some degree were on the same page.. it could be in our use of words and how we phrase them
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You said, speaking of Dr. Billy Graham.........
"His conclusion is that there will be those at Jesus' judgment seat, who have denied Him, and so will be rejected by Him as unbelievers."
I am asking you to please the post the source of that comment.
You see, there will be NO unbelievers at the Bema Seat Judgment. All those people who denied Christ were left behind at the Rapture.
NO ONE who has heard the gospel and denied Jesus as the Christ can be saved after the Rapture so therefore there can not be any who have denied Jesus at the Bema Seat. It will only be for born again believers.
Good question, but what Paul is saying IMHO is that he, Paul sincerely believed that Jesus Christ “is the one who has rescued us from the terrors of the coming judgment” in 1 Thessalonians 1:10 which is the Lake of Fire for unbelievers. Therefore, he labored with all his strength to bring as many people as possible to Christ so they could be saved from God’s coming wrath as seen in Romans 5:9.
He used the phrase from Old Test. of Job 31:23.....
"For I was in TERROR of calamity from God and I could not have faced His majesty".
Brother, remember that the Scriptures say that we as believers will have the "Mind of Christ" when we are glorified????
You will be glorified at death so that you can enter heaven.
I do not know about everyone else, but with the mind of Christ and in a glorified body, I do not forsee being in fear or terror of the Lord becaue I know that I am not being judged for my eternal state. I am in it right now!
LOL..........he owes me from 4 years ago!
so how do you feel on dieing as a martyr as per not taking the mark it account salvation.. David JERMIAH teaches that and i respect him very much.. but just not sure i agree although there is a hint of it
i dont see condemnation as fear.. but as you imho i see sometype fear as in reverance fear.. we are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling rev /respect
Water baptism is an act of faith (work) and is a necessary step in the salvation process.
Early Christian history teaches baptism. For the remission of sins.
John the apostle died in 100AD.
It can't be that the people who knew the people who knew Jesus got it wrong for a 1000+ years. They also have instruction for infant baptism in the Didache (70AD), less than 40yrs after Christ's death.
50yrs after the death of John the Apostle 》》ca. 150 A.D., Hermas, brother of Pope Saint Pius I, The Shepherd
— Remission of sins; born again through Baptism —
Mandate 4:3:1 “I have heard, sir,” said I, “from some teachers, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.” He said to me, “You have heard rightly, for so it is. …“They had need,” [the shepherd] said, “to come up through the water, so that they might be made alive; for they could not otherwise enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5), except by putting away the mortality of their former life. These also, then, who had fallen asleep, received the seal of the Son of God, and entered into the kingdom of God.
www.beholdthetruth.com
Early Christian history teaches baptism. For the remission of sins.
John the apostle died in 100AD.
It can't be that the people who knew the people who knew Jesus got it wrong for a 1000+ years. They also have instruction for infant baptism in the Didache (70AD), less than 40yrs after Christ's death.
50yrs after the death of John the Apostle 》》ca. 150 A.D., Hermas, brother of Pope Saint Pius I, The Shepherd
— Remission of sins; born again through Baptism —
Mandate 4:3:1 “I have heard, sir,” said I, “from some teachers, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.” He said to me, “You have heard rightly, for so it is. …“They had need,” [the shepherd] said, “to come up through the water, so that they might be made alive; for they could not otherwise enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5), except by putting away the mortality of their former life. These also, then, who had fallen asleep, received the seal of the Son of God, and entered into the kingdom of God.
21 Centuries — Behold The Truth
www.beholdthetruth.com
I was baptised in the Catholic Church as an infant.... In 2008.... I got re-baptised in a creek.
I do not believe there was any IMPORTANCE/RELEVANCE in my infant baptism because the Catholic Church does NOT follow BIBLICAL Christianity.
Although my adult baptism was significant ( to me )... as far as I am aware... It is not a condition of SALVATION.
Had I not been baptised as an adult to CORRECT my wrongful baptism of the Catholic church.... I don't see how this would have affected my SALVATION which was purchased by JESUS at the CROSS.
Ephesians 5: "Christ loved the Church, and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify it and cleanse it by the washing of water through the word."
Is it not the WORD of GOD that saves us?
Looking back on some of the claims in this thread... I am reminded of a disturbing conversation I had several months back regarding
a preacher who was accused of being a heretic and shunned by his church for stating that Jesus had human blood.
According to his accusers... Jesus had God's blood. WHAT does that EVEN MEAN?? I suppose this sounds all HOLY and such... but it is simply UNTRUE.
There seems to be a tendency with some to OVER and HYPER spiritualize things that are simply NOT BIBLICAL. Focusing on ONE word...or one scripture taken out of context.
The word WORKS and the claims made regarding them... seem to me to be in this category.... but in this case... it is an UNDER emphasis on the FINISHED work of CHRIST... and our contributions to that EVENT... which is NOTHING. WE have DONE NOTHING to deserve SALVATION. CHRIST did EVERYTHING.
WHAT we do for HIM... out of GRATITUDE is our measly little OFFERING back to HIM. Works is NOT about EARNING salvation... it is about being in a state of THANKFULNESS and OVERWHELMING AWE of the suffering... death and resurrection of CHRIST.
OBEDIENCE to GOD and His Commands is the FRUIT that naturally FLOWS from a soul who UNDERSTANDS the DEPTH of SACRIFICE that took place those 2000 years ago.
a preacher who was accused of being a heretic and shunned by his church for stating that Jesus had human blood.
According to his accusers... Jesus had God's blood. WHAT does that EVEN MEAN?? I suppose this sounds all HOLY and such... but it is simply UNTRUE.
There seems to be a tendency with some to OVER and HYPER spiritualize things that are simply NOT BIBLICAL. Focusing on ONE word...or one scripture taken out of context.
The word WORKS and the claims made regarding them... seem to me to be in this category.... but in this case... it is an UNDER emphasis on the FINISHED work of CHRIST... and our contributions to that EVENT... which is NOTHING. WE have DONE NOTHING to deserve SALVATION. CHRIST did EVERYTHING.
WHAT we do for HIM... out of GRATITUDE is our measly little OFFERING back to HIM. Works is NOT about EARNING salvation... it is about being in a state of THANKFULNESS and OVERWHELMING AWE of the suffering... death and resurrection of CHRIST.
OBEDIENCE to GOD and His Commands is the FRUIT that naturally FLOWS from a soul who UNDERSTANDS the DEPTH of SACRIFICE that took place those 2000 years ago.
IN Bible terms, "Condemnation" means declared guilty and waiting to be punished.
"fear" is determined by the context. It can mean afraid of an alligator in your back yard, or respect of a police officer because of his position.
You referenced In Philippians 2:12-13, there the Greek word word translated "fear" in this context means "reverence" or "respect."
Again, the Greek verb rendered “work out with fear and trembling” means "to continually work to bring something to completion or fruition." We do this by actively pursuing obedience in the process of sanctification, which Paul explains further in the next chapter of Philippians.
Thanks for your question.
That my brother is something that I will never have to consider. If David Jeremiah is teaching that then he is in error.
The Mark of the Beast appears 1st in Rev. 13 after the A/C is revealed and the Bible teaches us that the born again believers that truely make up the church will be removed "before" the A/C is known.
I appreciate your question.
Just for you...........The blood in Jesus's body was human. The beauty of Jesus’ conception is this that he did not inherit blood contaminated by Adam’s sinful human nature. Jesus’ Blood Remained Untainted by Sin because He did not have a Sin Nature. Jesus began life with blood unfouled by Adam’s propensity to act sinfull.