The REAL Miracles, and Greater Things

[crossnote]

Hey crossnote, I'm pretty we're on the same page.

How to Study the Bible

graceambassadors.com

God bless you both and thanks!

Bob, if that is the same page, I hope you realize they don't water baptixe, because for them them Church didn't start until Paul's conversion rather than at Pentecost? Otherwise known as hyper-dispensationalists.
I don't mind their emphasis on Pauline theology but I believe their Ecclesiology is somewhat deficient.

 

[YeshuaFan]

I wrote this in a private message to someone, and wanted to share it here with you:

...I have friends in the Reformed grouping, and we get along just fine, for I care not at all what men may believe about God working miracles [of healing] today or not, even through mortal men. I've never seen nor heard of men gifted with healing going in and emptying hospitals, but it also seems reasonable that it's not the Lord's way of doing His work among men.

Realistically, the apostles who worked such did not do so of their own power. Those who were healed, such as sight restored, how many of them in later life had dimmed vision once again, and how many healed of leprosy ended up dying of something else later [possibly of some other disease]? I married a woman brought up in the Charismatic movement groups, but [what I've learned is that] the "weightier" aspect of our lives in the Lord should be more focused on spiritual living and walking by faith. THAT'S the power for living in Christ Jesus.

When I bathe a suffering man or woman in prayer for their strengthening in spirit and mind, I am calling out for something that is eternally lasting, not just temporal. THAT is the essence of what the Lord wanted us to learn.

Think about it: Jesus told them they would do even GREATER things than what He did! Do you get that? It is FAR greater to heal a broken and weak heart and spirit than a broken and diseased body that will still perish in this world. I see no reason to focus BACK upon the former, for the latter is a GREATER power and miracle than the merely physical.

It is in suffering through sickness, such as the disease that I have right now, and that is killing my body, that I am made stronger in Christ. Healing might only cause me to slide once again back into the ineffective comforts of health. I would not trade this disease for health if it ever meant that I would then be enticed back into ineffective comfort. It is only after being diagnosed that I was able to break free from the comforts of health and enter into a vastly more deep and intimate relationship with the Lord that I now have.

All to the glory of God our Father, Who has glorified Jesus and His name above all names.

MM

The greatest healing is the spiritual one, as any sinner saved is a miracle done by God!

 

[Garee]

What do you mean by ineffective comforts of health?

I would think in that way Christ is our comforter being yoked with him can make our load lighter . . if we do His will. But that comfort is temporal .Physical healing are shadows used in parables of the eternal healing again preparing us for when we do receive our new incorruptible bodies .

Until then we can suffer for his sake . . being blessed to do the will empowered to do so or suffer for doing our self-righteous thingy.

In this world under the Sun there will be tribulation.

So then in one way the suffering is in effective preparing us for the eternal comfort them "affected".

 

[crossnote]

So then in one way the suffering is in effective preparing us for the eternal comfort them "affected".

Lost me on this last line.
Could you reword or explain please?

I'm guessing it should read..."

So then in one way the suffering is ineffective preparing us for the eternal comfort then "affected".

 

[Major]

I would think in that way Christ is our comforter being yoked with him can make our load lighter . . if we do His will. But that comfort is temporal .Physical healing are shadows used in parables of the eternal healing again preparing us for when we do receive our new incorruptible bodies .

Until then we can suffer for his sake . . being blessed to do the will empowered to do so or suffer for doing our self-righteous thingy.

In this world under the Sun there will be tribulation.

So then in one way the suffering is in effective preparing us for the eternal comfort them "affected".

Gari.......is it the case that "English" is not your 1st language???? Just asking!

 

[Garee]

Gari.......is it the case that "English" is not your 1st language???? Just asking!

Sorry for the extra work slow learner poor education.

Lost me on this last line.
Could you reword or explain please?

I'm guessing it should read..."

Sorry. I was trying to say the temporal suffering cannot be compared to the suffering Christ suffered for us . The former things of suffering will not be remembered or ever come to mind. Physical healings are used in parables to teach us how to walk by faith using the things seen the temporal as shadows to represent the unseen power the gospel .

The true fast according to the parable in Isaiah 58 .By which mankind can be heard on high takes some mixing. The kind of fast the disciples knew not of . . .not mixing faith the eternal with what the eyes see . Temporal healings are used as metaphors. Rather than striking wicked fist. . flesh and blood against flesh and blood. Sect against sect. . family against family .

When John the Baptist was about to lose his head he had doubts as to where or not Jesus was the Messiah. God moved John to comfort and send some to inquire if Christ was the true fast the power to be heard on high (Isaiah 58) . He went to his death comforted having been heard on high

Purple represents the sahow or temporporal a metphor used to represent the gospel .Pyical heaing is not evidence

Luke 7:19-23 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?
When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

God not not heal by human hands as if he neded anything from the clay he forms Christ in .

 

[crossnote]

Physical healings are used in parables to teach us how to walk by faith using the things seen the temporal as shadows to represent the unseen power the gospel .

That's fine, as long as they are also seen as in real time, God's actual power and compassion over our fallen condition.

The true fast according to the parable in Isaiah 58 .By which mankind can be heard on high takes some mixing. The kind of fast the disciples knew not of . . .not mixing faith the eternal with what the eyes see . Temporal healings are used as metaphors. Rather than striking wicked fist. . flesh and blood against flesh and blood. Sect against sect. . family against family

The true fast is plainly stated in v.6 ...

Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isaiah 58:6

It has more to do with the seen than the unseen.

When John the Baptist was about to lose his head he had doubts as to where or not Jesus was the Messiah. God moved John to comfort and send some to inquire if Christ was the true fast the power to be heard on high (Isaiah 58) . He went to his death comforted having been heard on high

I believe that is reading into the text things that are plainly not there...

Luke 7:21-23 (NASB) At that very time He cured many people of diseases and afflictions and evil spirits; and He gave sight to many who were blind. And He answered and said to them, "Go and report to John what you have seen and heard: the BLIND RECEIVE SIGHT, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, the POOR HAVE THE GOSPEL PREACHED TO THEM. "Blessed is he who does not take offense at Me."

Purple represents the sahow or temporporal a metphor used to represent the gospel .Pyical heaing is not evidence

I thought it represented royalty. Oh well, I guess when it comes to types and metaphors, anything not already defined by Scripture, is open game.

God not not heal by human hands as if he neded anything from the clay he forms Christ in .

Right, He only needs to speak the healing, just as He spoke the physical creation into existence.

 

[Major]

Sorry for the extra work slow learner poor education.


Sorry. I was trying to say the temporal suffering cannot be compared to the suffering Christ suffered for us . The former things of suffering will not be remembered or ever come to mind. Physical healings are used in parables to teach us how to walk by faith using the things seen the temporal as shadows to represent the unseen power the gospel .

The true fast according to the parable in Isaiah 58 .By which mankind can be heard on high takes some mixing. The kind of fast the disciples knew not of . . .not mixing faith the eternal with what the eyes see . Temporal healings are used as metaphors. Rather than striking wicked fist. . flesh and blood against flesh and blood. Sect against sect. . family against family .

When John the Baptist was about to lose his head he had doubts as to where or not Jesus was the Messiah. God moved John to comfort and send some to inquire if Christ was the true fast the power to be heard on high (Isaiah 58) . He went to his death comforted having been heard on high

Purple represents the sahow or temporporal a metphor used to represent the gospel .Pyical heaing is not evidence

Luke 7:19-23 And John calling unto him two of his disciples sent them to Jesus, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?
When the men were come unto him, they said, John Baptist hath sent us unto thee, saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another? And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight.
Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached. And blessed is he, whosoever shall not be offended in me.

God not not heal by human hands as if he neded anything from the clay he forms Christ in .

I think you have made some comments that shall I say are questionable......
"When John the Baptist was about to lose his head he had doubts as to where or not Jesus was the Messiah. "

I am not going to argue it but “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?”.....may not be doubts.

It’s unclear exactly when John first consciously knew that Jesus was the Son of God, whose way he had come to prepare. The Apostle John quotes him as saying, in John 1:31.......“I myself did not know him” around the time he baptized Jesus.

That is not doubt but is a statement of the "Unknown".

I am sure that It felt as if God had left him and the devil himself had taken his place. He tried to recall all the prophecies and signs that had seemed so clear to him before. But it was difficult to think straight. Comfort just wouldn’t stick to his soul. Doubts buzzed around his brain like the flies around his face.

The thought of being executed for the sake of righteousness and justice he could bear. But he could not bear the thought that he might have been wrong about Jesus. His one task was to prepare the way of the Lord. If he had gotten that wrong, his ministry, his life, was in vain.

But even with his doubts, there remained in John a deep, unshakable trust in Jesus. Jesus would tell him the truth. He just needed to hear from him again.

So he sent two of his closest disciples to ask Jesus, “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?”

The affection that radiated from Jesus was palpable. Jesus was familiar with John’s sorrows and grief and the satanic storms that break on the saints when they are weak and alone. He loved John.

So he invited John’s faithful friends to sit near him as he healed many and delivered many from demonic prisons.

Then he turned to them with kind tears glistening in his eyes and said, “Tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them.”

John would recognize Isaiah’s prophecy in those words. This promise would bring the peace John needed to sustain him for the few difficult days he had remaining.

Out of love for his friend, Jesus didn’t include Isaiah’s phrase “proclaim liberty to the captives.” John would understand.

When Jesus had sent John’s disciples away, he said something stunning about John: no one born of women had ever been greater. This, right after John questioned who Jesus was.

You said...........
"Purple represents the sahow or temporporal a metphor used to represent the gospel .Pyical heaing is not evidence"

I have never hear that Gari! Can you post the site or the source of that information. I have never read that and would like to know where it comes from.

In reality Gari........In ancient Rome the purple color was associated with royalty, power and wealth. Only the aristocrats wore clothes dyed in this color. In Roman Colors symbolism, Purple color was also known as Tyrian purple or Imperial purple.

 

[Musicmaster]

Sorry. I was trying to say the temporal suffering cannot be compared to the suffering Christ suffered for us .

Now THAT I can agree with you.

However, the rest of your comment about the healings Jesus did, I can't help but to wonder of you've ever read the scriptures without the outlandish bias that it's allegedly a wasted effort for anyone else to read the scriptures. That thought struck me because you otherwise treat it all as assuming that all of scripture is cryptic gibberish that only the spiritually minded can possibly comprehend, and that only a fool would ever even think to try and take scripture into their minds and hearts.

Bottom line, you have never, to this day, answered my question to you as to what external authority do you utilize to translate the scriptures into the spiritual stuff you've typed throughout these forums. If you do not rely on something external to you as being objective, then it's all subjective meanderings from your own imagination.

So, can you attempt answering that for us...in plain English. Just name the source. Is it a book? Is it some man's name of a teacher you have come to admire? Is it a familiar spirit? I mean, who am I to judge... But, can you at least give us some sort of insight on this as to your sourcing?

MM

 

[Lanolin]

Can't speak for Garee, but I have a hard time understanding his posts sometimes.

The greater things -- not sure if Jesus was referring to his miracles as such. Reading the entire chapter it seemed he was talking about His Father, the fact He was going to Him, and also that He was sending the comforter to dwell within the disciples.

As for hospitals and such, well in the old days there were no hospitals! People got sick and died and they had nowhere to go. It was Christians who had the idea of founding special buildings called hospitals where the sick could go and be cared for and recover.

 

[Musicmaster]

Can't speak for Garee, but I have a hard time understanding his posts sometimes.

The greater things -- not sure if Jesus was referring to his miracles as such. Reading the entire chapter it seemed he was talking about His Father, the fact He was going to Him, and also that He was sending the comforter to dwell within the disciples.

As for hospitals and such, well in the old days there were no hospitals! People got sick and died and they had nowhere to go. It was Christians who had the idea of founding special buildings called hospitals where the sick could go and be cared for and recover.

Lanolin, let's look at the grammatical construct of that verse:

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

If we read that verse, several times, we see more clearly that, yes, had the Lord stayed with us longer, He would have done greater things than before. But, because He went to the Father, His disciples, to whom He was addressing this, would have opportunity to do greater things than what Jesus had done. What could be greater?

Well, what's the one thing the apostles did in the power of Holy Spirit?

They built the Church from the ground up. Not petty buildings, carpet, parking lots, chandeliers, office space and all the other petty, material accomplishments so many call "the church," but they built up and assembled what is the most precious thing the Lord came to create through the total cleansing away of sin, which is His earthly body; of which He is the Head.

A man on this earth who desires another seeks a bride. The One who stamped His image upon us also was desiring another, and so He sought a bride with a body (keeping in mind that human language fails miserably to capture the depths of what words barely scratch the surface).

So, it's not so much a measure of the power considering that we have no power apart from He imparts to us. The "greater," then, is couched in language that points at the end result the Lord so desired. He wept when overlooking Jerusalem, suffering the sting of rejection. I can't begin to imagine the pain of that rejection. When He was looking over that city, He was seeing every heart, and the vast majority's rejection was like tens of thousands of lashes to the heart (if I dare try to draw a lingual parallel).

So, the DESIRE for another was not fulfilled in His years on this earth, but was accomplished at the hands of others He left behind, empowered to accomplish the build toward fulfilled finishing of His desire. The Gospel has spread to almost every nook and cranny of this earth. According to a world-wide evangelism organization, there are very few pockets left where the Gospel has not yet spread, and with Bibles in their languages or dialects. Jesus chose us to accomplish what He considered to be the 'greater'.

The Church has accomplished many other great things the Lord considered greater than healing and raising from the dead and the casting out of demons.

Don't know if that's value added or not, but there it is.

MM

 

[Garee]

Now THAT I can agree with you.

However, the rest of your comment about the healings Jesus did, I can't help but to wonder of you've ever read the scriptures without the outlandish bias that it's allegedly a wasted effort for anyone else to read the scriptures. That thought struck me because you otherwise treat it all as assuming that all of scripture is cryptic gibberish that only the spiritually minded can possibly comprehend, and that only a fool would ever even think to try and take scripture into their minds and hearts.

Bottom line, you have never, to this day, answered my question to you as to what external authority do you utilize to translate the scriptures into the spiritual stuff you've typed throughout these forums. If you do not rely on something external to you as being objective, then it's all subjective meanderings from your own imagination.

So, can you attempt answering that for us...in plain English. Just name the source. Is it a book? Is it some man's name of a teacher you have come to admire? Is it a familiar spirit? I mean, who am I to judge... But, can you at least give us some sort of insight on this as to your sourcing?

MM

Now THAT I can agree with you.

However, the rest of your comment about the healings Jesus did, I can't help but to wonder of you've ever read the scriptures without the outlandish bias that it's allegedly a wasted effort for anyone else to read the scriptures. That thought struck me because you otherwise treat it all as assuming that all of scripture is cryptic gibberish that only the spiritually minded can possibly comprehend, and that only a fool would ever even think to try and take scripture into their minds and hearts.

Bottom line, you have never, to this day, answered my question to you as to what external authority do you utilize to translate the scriptures into the spiritual stuff you've typed throughout these forums. If you do not rely on something external to you as being objective, then it's all subjective meanderings from your own imagination.

So, can you attempt answering that for us...in plain English. Just name the source. Is it a book? Is it some man's name of a teacher you have come to admire? Is it a familiar spirit? I mean, who am I to judge... But, can you at least give us some sort of insight on this as to your sourcing?



Hi thanks

External authority? Believers are the living temple of God surely they are not they have no power to believe in the unsen eternal.

I would think we look to the internal authority if it worked to please the father working in the Son of man Jesus the prophet prophesied of who came to do the will of the lord our Father . the word that worked in the powerless flesh works in us

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The familiar spirit I have my hope in is hopefully the same as yours called as it is written. The mutual faith of Christ. The little faith we do have.

Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

I admire many teachers that teach how we can hear sharing ideas hoping God will teach and apply His word to their new born again hearts. I think you are a good teacher the gospel is clear. My favorites that all had a little different approach like for fingerprints where John Duckhorn my pastor for 25 years where I first heard the gospel, John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, Tony Evens, and a few others. I listened to many different kinds and manners of teachers teaching how they believed we can hear God. I had difficulty with the Charismatic style .

I would offer we all have a private interpretation called, (heresy .sect or opinion) The Bible informs there must be heresies amongst us .The kingdom of God within does not come by looking at the temporal things seen .We do not need any men to teach us. One is our infallible teacher not seen Christian are to call no man on earth Father as the teacher Master and Lord as we are informed in Job 9,God is not a man as us and
neither is there any daysman. . . . (like the Pope) Daysman........a fleshly infallible teaching master that umpires between both God not seen and mankind seen. A place that even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in when bowed down to and called good teaching Master as Lord .Jesus replied only God not seen is good ,Good is his unseen fingerprint “”the closing signature. . . .and it was Very Good

Without parables the signified tongue of God he spoke not it opens up a wide range of mysteries. Song of Songs is a great parable like that of Revelation filled with metaphors that reveal the hidden manna the mystery of the parable .

 

[Garee]

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

If we read that verse, several times, we see more clearly that, yes, had the Lord stayed with us longer, He would have done greater things than before. But, because He went to the Father, His disciples, to whom He was addressing this, would have opportunity to do greater things than what Jesus had done. What could be greater?

I would offer the greater is the result or number .Tthe Son of man Jesus he was given lesser so that men did not chase after the flesh and not the Spirt walking by faith).Many times he would walk through a crowd hiding him self in a hope other would also walk by faith the will of the father. He our living example When the prophet Jesus spoke the words of father. . a few here or there had the power to believe possibly 500 followers athat did not walk away in unbelief (no faith) like the disciples in John 6

When Jesus left then the power could be attributed to the father alone and not the Son of man Jesus. When Jesus left then blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven .Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy in Mathew 16 when he rebuiked Jesus comandiding him to stop the demonatation and not go to the cross

The greater window of opportunity exploded. Peter who was forgiven was given the gift of prophecy (God declaring his thoughts) Peter spoke and 3000 entered in the kingdom of God .The "greater thing" that some evangelists have experenced .

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

 

[Major]

Now THAT I can agree with you.

However, the rest of your comment about the healings Jesus did, I can't help but to wonder of you've ever read the scriptures without the outlandish bias that it's allegedly a wasted effort for anyone else to read the scriptures. That thought struck me because you otherwise treat it all as assuming that all of scripture is cryptic gibberish that only the spiritually minded can possibly comprehend, and that only a fool would ever even think to try and take scripture into their minds and hearts.

Bottom line, you have never, to this day, answered my question to you as to what external authority do you utilize to translate the scriptures into the spiritual stuff you've typed throughout these forums. If you do not rely on something external to you as being objective, then it's all subjective meanderings from your own imagination.

So, can you attempt answering that for us...in plain English. Just name the source. Is it a book? Is it some man's name of a teacher you have come to admire? Is it a familiar spirit? I mean, who am I to judge... But, can you at least give us some sort of insight on this as to your sourcing?



Hi thanks

External authority? Believers are the living temple of God surely they are not they have no power to believe in the unsen eternal.

I would think we look to the internal authority if it worked to please the father working in the Son of man Jesus the prophet prophesied of who came to do the will of the lord our Father . the word that worked in the powerless flesh works in us

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

The familiar spirit I have my hope in is hopefully the same as yours called as it is written. The mutual faith of Christ. The little faith we do have.

Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

I admire many teachers that teach how we can hear sharing ideas hoping God will teach and apply His word to their new born again hearts. I think you are a good teacher the gospel is clear. My favorites that all had a little different approach like for fingerprints where John Duckhorn my pastor for 25 years where I first heard the gospel, John MacArthur, Chuck Swindoll, Tony Evens, and a few others. I listened to many different kinds and manners of teachers teaching how they believed we can hear God. I had difficulty with the Charismatic style .

I would offer we all have a private interpretation called, (heresy .sect or opinion) The Bible informs there must be heresies amongst us .The kingdom of God within does not come by looking at the temporal things seen .We do not need any men to teach us. One is our infallible teacher not seen Christian are to call no man on earth Father as the teacher Master and Lord as we are informed in Job 9,God is not a man as us and
neither is there any daysman. . . . (like the Pope) Daysman........a fleshly infallible teaching master that umpires between both God not seen and mankind seen. A place that even the Son of man Jesus refused to stand in when bowed down to and called good teaching Master as Lord .Jesus replied only God not seen is good ,Good is his unseen fingerprint “”the closing signature. . . .and it was Very Good

Without parables the signified tongue of God he spoke not it opens up a wide range of mysteries. Song of Songs is a great parable like that of Revelation filled with metaphors that reveal the hidden manna the mystery of the parable .

Gari........YOu said---

"I would offer we all have a private interpretation called, (heresy .sect or opinion) .

WHAT in the world are you saying my friend???????????

 

[Major]

I would offer the greater is the result or number .Tthe Son of man Jesus he was given lesser so that men did not chase after the flesh and not the Spirt walking by faith).Many times he would walk through a crowd hiding him self in a hope other would also walk by faith the will of the father. He our living example When the prophet Jesus spoke the words of father. . a few here or there had the power to believe possibly 500 followers athat did not walk away in unbelief (no faith) like the disciples in John 6

When Jesus left then the power could be attributed to the father alone and not the Son of man Jesus. When Jesus left then blasphemy against the Holy Spirit would not be forgiven .Peter was forgiven of his blasphemy in Mathew 16 when he rebuiked Jesus comandiding him to stop the demonatation and not go to the cross

The greater window of opportunity exploded. Peter who was forgiven was given the gift of prophecy (God declaring his thoughts) Peter spoke and 3000 entered in the kingdom of God .The "greater thing" that some evangelists have experenced .

Matthew 12:31-32 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

Again, You said,
"I would offer the greater is the result or number .Tthe Son of man Jesus he was given lesser so that men did not chase after the flesh and not the Spirt walking by faith)".

WHAT are you saying???? Do YOU KNOW what you are trying to say my friend?????

 

[Garee]

The true fast is plainly stated in v.6 ...

Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isaiah 58:6

It has more to do with the seen than the unseen.

I would say the unseen power that works in mankind it reaveals what the eyes see ..In that way signs follow one has beleived .Never lead. God said let there be the will and it was good the substnce of the work . The power working with the will. the labor of Christ's love or work of faith .

Philipians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

 

[crossnote]

I would say the unseen power that works in mankind it reaveals what the eyes see ..In that way signs follow one has beleived .Never lead. God said let there be the will and it was good the substnce of the work . The power working with the will. the labor of Christ's love or work of faith .

Philipians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

1 Thessalonians 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Garee, what you are referring to is the unseen nature of God. Only one problem, We AIN'T He!
Our obligation remains in the visible realm...Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isaiah 58:6

 

[Garee]

I think you have made some comments that shall I say are questionable......
"When John the Baptist was about to lose his head he had doubts as to where or not Jesus was the Messiah. "

I am not going to argue it but “Are you the one who is to come, or shall we look for another?”.....may not be doubts.

It’s unclear exactly when John first consciously knew that Jesus was the Son of God, whose way he had come to prepare. The Apostle John quotes him as saying, in John 1:31.......“I myself did not know him” around the time he baptized Jesus.

That is not doubt but is a statement of the "Unknown".

There would be seem to be a difference one is a statment, The other a querry ?? questioning..

All beleivers doubt. Doubt is not the oposite of faith. Unbeleif "no faith" is .

As born again believer we are always atributed with little faith with the prospect he must increase. His word literaly has the power of life or death . No faith no power

So he invited John’s faithful friends to sit near him as he healed many and delivered many from demonic prisons.

Then he turned to them with kind tears glistening in his eyes and said, “Tell John what you have seen and heard: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up and the poor have the gospel preached to them.”

Jesus did not invide . . it was the work of the father to give John comfort that sent them to witness the lesson the gospel preached the temporal healing proving it was the lord working in mankind to both wil and empower .

John asked them while in prison awaitng punishemt having rebuked the king for fornficateing with his brother Philip's wife. Doubting whether Jesus was prophet messiah .he was led to sent the men saying, Art thou he that should come? or look we for another?

All of those metphors in the parable the blind see (in repsect the spiritual blind faithless unbeleivers. or deaf hear spiritually deaf ,, dead are raised are pictures of our salvation raising the believer to new born again life

When John heard having ears to hear of the work the father was working in the Son of man jesus he mixing that sern with the unseen gospel the deaf hear the dead are raised . The true fast

 

[Garee]

Garee, what you are referring to is the unseen nature of God. Only one problem, We AIN'T He!
Our obligation remains in the visible realm...Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke? Isaiah 58:6

Yes He empowers us He the gospel key the one that loosenens the bands of wickedness, undoing the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke

.I was tryng to make the same point ..Thanks Beleivers preach the gospel plant the seed and water it with the doctrines of God but if any growth or new spirit life it not of us we have the treasure he has the power of faith . We preach he alone is the infalible teacher as master and Lord

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

 

[Lanolin]

Lanolin, let's look at the grammatical construct of that verse:

John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

If we read that verse, several times, we see more clearly that, yes, had the Lord stayed with us longer, He would have done greater things than before. But, because He went to the Father, His disciples, to whom He was addressing this, would have opportunity to do greater things than what Jesus had done. What could be greater?

Well, what's the one thing the apostles did in the power of Holy Spirit?

They built the Church from the ground up. Not petty buildings, carpet, parking lots, chandeliers, office space and all the other petty, material accomplishments so many call "the church," but they built up and assembled what is the most precious thing the Lord came to create through the total cleansing away of sin, which is His earthly body; of which He is the Head.

A man on this earth who desires another seeks a bride. The One who stamped His image upon us also was desiring another, and so He sought a bride with a body (keeping in mind that human language fails miserably to capture the depths of what words barely scratch the surface).

So, it's not so much a measure of the power considering that we have no power apart from He imparts to us. The "greater," then, is couched in language that points at the end result the Lord so desired. He wept when overlooking Jerusalem, suffering the sting of rejection. I can't begin to imagine the pain of that rejection. When He was looking over that city, He was seeing every heart, and the vast majority's rejection was like tens of thousands of lashes to the heart (if I dare try to draw a lingual parallel).

So, the DESIRE for another was not fulfilled in His years on this earth, but was accomplished at the hands of others He left behind, empowered to accomplish the build toward fulfilled finishing of His desire. The Gospel has spread to almost every nook and cranny of this earth. According to a world-wide evangelism organization, there are very few pockets left where the Gospel has not yet spread, and with Bibles in their languages or dialects. Jesus chose us to accomplish what He considered to be the 'greater'.

The Church has accomplished many other great things the Lord considered greater than healing and raising from the dead and the casting out of demons.

Don't know if that's value added or not, but there it is.

MM

I wasn't debating with you just reading the chapter as a whole.
Whether Jesus was referring to the greater number of people who could enter the kingdom or the number of miraculous healings, is open to interpretation. The difficulty I guess some people don't know what he was referring to when he said 'works' so you probably want to go back and re-read what he meant by 'works'.

When I read the Bible I don't just read ONE verse. I read the entire chapter so I can understand what the story is.