Well, you can believe as you feel comfy with major, and who's to say your wrong? You asked me to consider certain passages from Isaiah........I have. Isa 65:17 shows beyond argument that what follows, viz V20 are a commentary on the state of things in the new Jerusalem, not the 1000 year reign. So it seals nothing of the kind IMNSHO. The idea of living believers (mortal, not yet resurrected believers)who go into the 1000 year rule of Christ might, on other grounds be true, but I have yet to see supportive scripture.
The TWO NEW Covenants -Miles J. Stanford
- Thread starter netchaplain
- Start date
calvin said: ↑
Well, you can believe as you feel comfy with major, and who's to say your wrong? The passage you have quoted, notice how it more or less ends? their number will be as the sand of the sea.....Hmmm with just 1000 years to work with are you sure they are the unsaved children and not rabbits?
Pretty sure.
You see, we do not know HOW many people will survive the Tribulation period.
Let me give you a real time example. On Janurary 29, 1973 the USA accepted and passed the legislation of Roe verses Wade which legalized abortion. Since that date to today, 39 years..........a stagering 58 MILLION people have been killed. That is just from a nation of approx. 300 million.
Now take just that one nation and do the math and 58 million x 1000 years comes out to be a figure my calculator can not print out. Now if if apply that to all the nation that go into the 1000 year Rule it seems to me that we will have a lot of people at the end of the 1000 years or better said...........A LOT OF SAN OF THE SEA.
Well, I don't want our sisters coming down on me like ton of bricks for this, but I would think that any given woman would be hard pressed to abort more frequently than each 5-6 weeks.....that is if she wanted to. But going full term, one bub a year would be an optimistic high. While the figures you quote are really a sad and sickening indictment of our social morals, they seem to have no application to a 1000 year reign IMNSHO. Major, if you want to pursue this line of discussion, I would be happy to discuss things with you, however I am getting a little fidgety here because this thread is wandering way of track, and we two, are the main offenders. Would you like to start a thread specific to your interests in the 1000 reign? Or would you prefer to let this line drop for now?
Blessings,
calvin
You are quite right my friend....but that is what happens in all threads. They tend to follow the course of conversation from those involved, not because of the OP's original intention.
Wow, when you think you are alone in seeing the truth, God always proves Himself to have a remnant...
Biblically Sound ... and I could not agree with this more. I do not have time to add my comments but will do so later. There a key word that is a stumbling block for most, it is the Greek word "EKKLESIA" which is translated Church by the KJV. If most do their research on the word "Ekklesia - GSN1577" it will show that the Church is the true Israel of God and they are one in the same. However, reading the Bible lead by the Holy Spirit will provide the best conclusion. When we listen to men and not God's word, we will often render our conclusion in error.
Romans 9:7-8. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
2 Timothy 2:15. Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Good Day and God Bless
My I say here concerning the Bible quote of Gal. 3:29. That the Greek (Gentile) is just as much in Christ Jesus as the Jew. That the slave is just as much in Christ Jesus as the free man. That the female is just as much in Christ Jesus as the male.
The rating of these three examples in Christ Jesus is the same. The same regardless of race, station, or sex. When we humans of any and every description come into Christ sincerely, we are equally and wholly in Him and are thereby saved irrespective of who we are, where we are, or what we are. There can be no high nor low of penitents who come to the Cross for salvation. The ground at Calvary's Cross is level, and those who come to the Cross are treated as equals by the Saviour. God's marvelous provision of salvation is complete, and it is freely and equally for all applicants.
In this Galatians setting the main thrust of the passage before us has to do with relations between Jew and Gentile. Is keeping of Jewish law and ordinances necessary to become saved? Paul amplifies his "emphatically no" answer to this bone of contention by paralleling it with the bond-free and male-female qualifications for becoming saved. The Jew-Gentile qualification is shown to be identical with the qualifications of the other two couplets.
Not by keeping of the law, but by faith in Christ Jesus, sinners of all kind and caliber are saved. And the Gentile, the bond-slave, and the female are not one whit less saved through that adequate provision than are the Jew, the free man, and the male.
Also to be in Christ is by analogy to become the seed of Abraham, because Christ's Jewish lineage hails directly from Abraham. "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29). The connecting link between the believer and Abraham is "faith." Through faith the promise of God to Abraham gets through to both Jew and Gentile. "Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles along with the Jews, by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: 'All nations will be blessed through you.' So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith".
Romans 9:7
"Neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children".
That is in the sense which entitles them to the inheritance......notice, ......"but in Issac shall they seed be called".
God from the very beginning made a distinction and definitally announced that the seed of Abraham to which the promise belonged should come through the line of ISSAC and not Ishmael, though he also was called the seed of Abraham hence the need of distinction. Confirm that with Gen. 17:19-21; 21:12,13.
Then we have this quote which I am assuming you are agreeing to as well..........
"We must always remember Jesus declared He was returning to take His people to a New Earth that He has gone to prepare, not return to rule over THIS one. This Earth is marked for destruction ON HIS RETURN! It will NOT be part of the Kingdom of Heaven. It will not exist."
Now lets do this as suggested........
2 Timothy 2:15.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
In Rev. 19 is the account of Messiah Jesus coming at Armageddon. Armageddon takes place at the end of the 7 year Tribulation. Then will Christ come down from heaven and set His feet upon the MT. of Olives.
Zechariah 14:4.....
" 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Makinga very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then Zechariah 4:8
"And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
This will be the beginning of the Millennial Rule of Christ and it will be on the earth. So as you can see Biblically, the earth IS NOT DESTROYED at Christ's coming but instead, there will be a 1000 year rule of Christ ON THE EARTH.
Rev. 20:3-4 opens ....
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received hismark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Now we know that this 1000 years is literal and it takes place on the EARTH. Lets rightly divide the Word of truth.
Revelation 20:8......
"and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number isas the sand of the sea."
BOOM! There it is...the EARTH!
Blessings to you!
The rating of these three examples in Christ Jesus is the same. The same regardless of race, station, or sex. When we humans of any and every description come into Christ sincerely, we are equally and wholly in Him and are thereby saved irrespective of who we are, where we are, or what we are. There can be no high nor low of penitents who come to the Cross for salvation. The ground at Calvary's Cross is level, and those who come to the Cross are treated as equals by the Saviour. God's marvelous provision of salvation is complete, and it is freely and equally for all applicants.
In this Galatians setting the main thrust of the passage before us has to do with relations between Jew and Gentile. Is keeping of Jewish law and ordinances necessary to become saved? Paul amplifies his "emphatically no" answer to this bone of contention by paralleling it with the bond-free and male-female qualifications for becoming saved. The Jew-Gentile qualification is shown to be identical with the qualifications of the other two couplets.
Not by keeping of the law, but by faith in Christ Jesus, sinners of all kind and caliber are saved. And the Gentile, the bond-slave, and the female are not one whit less saved through that adequate provision than are the Jew, the free man, and the male.
Also to be in Christ is by analogy to become the seed of Abraham, because Christ's Jewish lineage hails directly from Abraham. "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (Gal. 3:29). The connecting link between the believer and Abraham is "faith." Through faith the promise of God to Abraham gets through to both Jew and Gentile. "Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles along with the Jews, by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: 'All nations will be blessed through you.' So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith".
Romans 9:7
"Neither because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children".
That is in the sense which entitles them to the inheritance......notice, ......"but in Issac shall they seed be called".
God from the very beginning made a distinction and definitally announced that the seed of Abraham to which the promise belonged should come through the line of ISSAC and not Ishmael, though he also was called the seed of Abraham hence the need of distinction. Confirm that with Gen. 17:19-21; 21:12,13.
Then we have this quote which I am assuming you are agreeing to as well..........
"We must always remember Jesus declared He was returning to take His people to a New Earth that He has gone to prepare, not return to rule over THIS one. This Earth is marked for destruction ON HIS RETURN! It will NOT be part of the Kingdom of Heaven. It will not exist."
Now lets do this as suggested........
2 Timothy 2:15.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
In Rev. 19 is the account of Messiah Jesus coming at Armageddon. Armageddon takes place at the end of the 7 year Tribulation. Then will Christ come down from heaven and set His feet upon the MT. of Olives.
Zechariah 14:4.....
" 4 And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Makinga very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.
Then Zechariah 4:8
"And in that day it shall be
That living waters shall flow from Jerusalem,
Half of them toward the eastern sea
And half of them toward the western sea;
In both summer and winter it shall occur.
This will be the beginning of the Millennial Rule of Christ and it will be on the earth. So as you can see Biblically, the earth IS NOT DESTROYED at Christ's coming but instead, there will be a 1000 year rule of Christ ON THE EARTH.
Rev. 20:3-4 opens ....
3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received hismark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Now we know that this 1000 years is literal and it takes place on the EARTH. Lets rightly divide the Word of truth.
Revelation 20:8......
"and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number isas the sand of the sea."
BOOM! There it is...the EARTH!
Blessings to you!
Sorry Major, after a lot of prayerful consideration I have decided to stick around for a while. Couldn't see how leaving was going to help my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here any.
Just to correct a couple of things here. The first is that Paul did not say all are EQUAL in Christ, he said "There is neither Jew nor Greek ...". That is the DISTINCTION no longer exists. That is, not that they are still distinct but now equal, but that they are now INDISTINGUISHABLE one from the other. The labels "Jew" and "Gentile" have no existence for those who are in Christ, for all are ONE in Christ.
When we look at:-
Romans 9:7-8. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
We note quite expressly that the "seed of Abraham" is NOT counted by geneology, that is not by genetics or inheritance of the flesh, but by FAITH. Clearly any claim that the Abrahamic covenant is to those who are PHYSICALLY related to Abraham is not in accordance with the scriptures. The Lord considers physical descendency from Abraham to be of no account or significance whatsoever when it comes to the Abrahamic covenant and has made it quite clear on a number of occassions.
Any reference to a "7 year Tribulation" is NOT from the Bible, it is from the "70th Week" theologists and has already been shown and amply demonstrated on a number of threads now to be not in accordance with Biblical teaching. It is important that we do not infer as Biblical fact that which is merely the theological opinion of some people.
Satan is not released to go out and decieve the nations and GATHER them against Jerusalem until AFTER the 1,000 years are finished. The Bible clearly declares that the Battle AT Armaggeddon occurs sometime AFTER the 1,000 years, not before. The battle that occurs before the 1,000 years is neither at mount Meggido (aka Armaggeddon) nor is it over Jerusalem. NIETHER are mentioned in that Battle. Hence any inference that Jesus reigns on the Earth for 1,000 years AFTER Armaggeddon is not in accordance with Scripture. Indeed it has been amply demonstrated on a number of threads now that the 1,000 years occurs BEFORE Christ returns, not after, for not ALL the dead in Christ are raised before the 1,000 years, but specifically only those actually BEHEADED for their witness at that time. The REST of the dead are not raised until AFTER the 1,000 as Revelation clearly declares.
Consequently it is your last claim that has gone "BOOM"
Regards Misty.
Sorry Major, after a lot of prayerful consideration I have decided to stick around for a while. Couldn't see how leaving was going to help my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here any.
Just to correct a couple of things here. The first is that Paul did not say all are EQUAL in Christ, he said "There is neither Jew nor Greek ...". That is the DISTINCTION no longer exists. That is, not that they are still distinct but now equal, but that they are now INDISTINGUISHABLE one from the other. The labels "Jew" and "Gentile" have no existence for those who are in Christ, for all are ONE in Christ.
When we look at:-
Romans 9:7-8. Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.
We note quite expressly that the "seed of Abraham" is NOT counted by geneology, that is not by genetics or inheritance of the flesh, but by FAITH. Clearly any claim that the Abrahamic covenant is to those who are PHYSICALLY related to Abraham is not in accordance with the scriptures. The Lord considers physical descendency from Abraham to be of no account or significance whatsoever when it comes to the Abrahamic covenant and has made it quite clear on a number of occassions.
Any reference to a "7 year Tribulation" is NOT from the Bible, it is from the "70th Week" theologists and has already been shown and amply demonstrated on a number of threads now to be not in accordance with Biblical teaching. It is important that we do not infer as Biblical fact that which is merely the theological opinion of some people.
Satan is not released to go out and decieve the nations and GATHER them against Jerusalem until AFTER the 1,000 years are finished. The Bible clearly declares that the Battle AT Armaggeddon occurs sometime AFTER the 1,000 years, not before. The battle that occurs before the 1,000 years is neither at mount Meggido (aka Armaggeddon) nor is it over Jerusalem. NIETHER are mentioned in that Battle. Hence any inference that Jesus reigns on the Earth for 1,000 years AFTER Armaggeddon is not in accordance with Scripture. Indeed it has been amply demonstrated on a number of threads now that the 1,000 years occurs BEFORE Christ returns, not after, for not ALL the dead in Christ are raised before the 1,000 years, but specifically only those actually BEHEADED for their witness at that time. The REST of the dead are not raised until AFTER the 1,000 as Revelation clearly declares.
Consequently it is your last claim that has gone "BOOM"
Regards Misty.
My dear friend.......I am laughing out loud!!!
I knew that you would not leave from the moment I read your goodbye letter. You see...it is that need to "controle" that fuels your motives.
I like your picture!
I do not mind responding to your comments at all, Never have.
You said....
"Satan is not released to go out and decieve the nations and GATHER them against Jerusalem until AFTER the 1,000 years are finished."
I AGREE because that is what the Scriptures tell us.
Revelation 20:1-3
Satan Bound 1000 Years
Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
You said.........
"Any reference to a "7 year Tribulation" is NOT from the Bible, it is from the "70th Week" theologists and has already been shown and amply demonstrated on a number of threads now to be not in accordance with Biblical teaching. It is important that we do not infer as Biblical fact that which is merely the theological opinion of some people."
OF COURSE YOU KNEW I WOULD DISAGREE WITH THAT.
Daniel 9:24-27
New King James Version (NKJV)
24 “ Seventy weeks[ are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity,To bring in
everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy. 25 “ Know therefore and understand, That from the going forth of the command To restore and build Jerusalem Until Messiah the Prince, There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; The street shall be built again, and the wall,Even in troublesome times.26 “ And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, And till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.
The reason we know that the 70th "week" lasts 7 years is that the 7 "weeks" and 62 "weeks" (a total of 69 "weeks"), which have already happened, lasted exactly 483 years = 69 weeks X 7 years/week. The Messiah made His triumphant entry into the City of Jerusalem (Mathew 21:8) exactly 483 years after the commandment of Artaxerxes to rebuild the temple, March 14, 445 B.C. Subsequently He was "cutoff", crucified as recorded in Daniel 9:26. Please note that He was crucified AFTER the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks. That is, He was crucified AFTER the 69th week.
This whole prophecy (of Daniel) was made in 538 B.C. while the Jews were in Babylon at the end of their 70-year captivity. The 1st 69 "weeks" were fulfilled exactly as predicted and the 70th "week" will also.
Now there is absolutly no reason to re-hash this. YOU think as you believe and are convicted and I will do the same.
Then you said...................
"Hence any inference that Jesus reigns on the Earth for 1,000 years AFTER Armaggeddon is not in accordance with Scripture. Indeed it has been amply demonstrated on a number of threads now that the 1,000 years occurs BEFORE Christ returns, not after, for not ALL the dead in Christ are raised before the 1,000 years, but specifically only those actually BEHEADED for their witness at that time. The REST of the dead are not raised until AFTER the 1,000 as Revelation clearly declares."
I DISAGREE WITH THAT.
My understanding is very different than yours is. Frankly, I do not care what is said on a million of threads. The only thing I consider is what the Word of God says.
Rev. 19:17-21
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Beast and His Armies Defeated---------
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, “Come and gather together for the supper of the great God,18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, both small and great.”
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
This is Armageddon my friend and ends the 19th chapter of the Revelation. The next chapter is #20 and the NEXT thing written in the Word of God AFTER Armageddon is.........
Rev. 20:1-4....
Satan Bound 1000 Years
1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.
The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years.
(I am not sure how you can miss that.)
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Then you said............
"The REST of the dead are not raised until AFTER the 1,000 as Revelation clearly declares."
I AGREE because that is what the Word of God says. NOW WHO IS THE REST???
Rev. 20:5.............
"5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."
From the Scriptures I listed we can clearly see that there are to be TWO resurrections seperated by the 1000 years. The FIRST will be the RESURRECTION UNTO LIFE and it..................... ...........
1) includes all of those "dead in Christ" who were raised at the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:13-18);
2) The Tribulation saints who died after the Rapture and who are raised at the end of the Trib. Period (20:4).
3) All of the Old Test. saints.
Now Rev. 20:6 tells us.............
" Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years."
Now lets continiue to rightly divide the Word of God.
Rev 20:7-10
" 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[a] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
So we clearly see that the chronological line has been 1000 years. According to the Biblical timeline we are at the END of the 1000 years and the Scriptures say to us................................
Rev. 20:11
11" Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them."
THIS IS THE ANSWER TYO WHO THE "REST" ARE.
This is the 2nd Resurrectgion and it is a resurrection unto death. Christ has now judged the rebels in the battle of Gog and Magog (20:8) and all the lost of all the ages are raised to be judgerd at the Great White Thrown Judgment. This of couse to confirm John 3:18 which I know you already knew.
Nice to see you again.
Don't worry Major, your response put a smile on my lips also - so, so, predictable.
But one does not PM the moderators to delete one's account if one does not mean it. But you misunderstand Major, I was not looking for a reason to leave, I was looking for a reason to STAY. It was my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here who reminded me of why I should stay.
When one is forced to deal with the same few people over and over again it becomes easy to see things as Elisha's servant saw them and not as Elisha saw them. (2 Kings 6:14-17)
My friends and brothers and sisters reminded me that those who continue to oppose me here are not the majority, just prolific in their opposition.
Sorry Major, I am not going to refrain from speaking the truth regardless of who disagrees with it.
Strange that you should say there is absolutely no reason to re-hash this immediately after you - just re-hashed your side of it??
But your rehashing the same argument that has already been well and truly proven to be demonstrably not in accordance with either the Bible or the facts of well established history does not mysteriously make it correct. No matter how many times an error is repeated it is still an error and the words of the Bible and of history have not changed since the last time we thoroughly discussed the topic.
Unless sufficient others really want us to argue the topic yet again I am happy for them to refer to our previous several discussions.
That is a common misconception by those who do not understand that two very seperate battles are described in Revelation. The first is against the rider of the white horse and his army, NOT against Jerusalem. The SECOND is the one against Jerusalem where the armies of the nations are gathered at Mount Meggiddo (aka Armageddon) - a place just North West of Jerusalem. The two descriptions describe two very different battles. THIS is the battle at Armageddon:-
Rev 20:7-10 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."
It is immediately followed by the White Throne judgement, the destruction of the Earth and the New Jerusalem descending on the NEW Earth.
OK here is what Revelation SAYS. After the FIRST battle, against the rider of the white horse and his army, NOT against Jerusalem (ie NOT Armageddon) ONLY those who were physically BEHEADED (the Greek word specifically refers to death by actual decapitation) for their witness of Christ and refusing the mark of the Beast are raised to life again and THEY will live and reign WITH Christ 1,000 years (that is, the 1,000 years refers to how long THEY reign with Christ, not the reign of Christ Himself).
Now Revelation SAYS this is the FIRST Resurrection. That is, the first resurrection is only of those who were BEHEADED for their witness of Christ and refusing the mark of the beast. Hence not only did they have to be physically beheaded but it had to be punishment for their witnessing Christ and refusing the mark of the beast.
Now the VERY NEXT thing Revelation SAYS is that the REST of the dead were not raised until AFTER the 1,000 years were finished. Clearly it can only mean those dead who were NOT raised in the first resurrection. Meaning ALL those who were dead by some reason OTHER than being beheaded for their witness of Christ and refusing the mark of the beast.
Clearly "the REST of the dead" includes those who died in Christ from old age, those who died from illness, those who died from being thrown to wild animals in the arena, those who were burnt to death, those ..... well those who died by any means OTHER than being beheaded for their witness of Christ.
BUT we know from other parts of the Bible that when Christ returns ALL the dead in Christ (by ANY means), and all in Christ who are still alive will not only be raised up but also changed to be with Him in the air and for all eternity, not 1,000 years. Clearly then this cannot be until sometime AFTER the 1,000 years because NOBODY but those beheaded for their witness of Christ are raised BEFORE the 1,000.
John could not have made it any clearer even if what John and the Bible declare is rather inconvenient for your chosen theology.
You keep repeating the need to "rightly divide" the word of God but, I am sorry Major, you just do not put it into practice I'm afraid, as I have demonstrated many times over. Can I suggest you not keep inferring that you are and anybody who disagrees with you therefore isn't. All I am doing is pointing out what the words of the Bible actually say, no more and no less. People have the same words in their own Bibles and can judge these things for themselves and I always encourage them to do so. I NEVER tell them to believe this or that theology, only what the words of the Bible actually SAY.
Regards Misty.
Mistmann said.......
"It was my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here who reminded me of why I should stay."
Whether you go or stay was all totally in your mind and power. No one else mentioned it or thought of it as I am aware of so why should it even be an issue?
You said.......
"My friends and brothers and sisters reminded me that those who continue to oppose me here are not the majority, just prolific in their opposition."
I was not aware that anyone was opposed to you??? Some have disagreed with your explinations of the Bible and I am certainly one of those...but to say "opposition" I believe is an incorrect statement. The word "opposition" implies that there is an effort to harm or in some way hurt your cause. Speaking only for myself.....nothing could be further from the truth.
You said......
"Sorry Major, after a lot of prayerful consideration I have decided to stick around for a while."
There is no reason whatsoever to apologize to me. I never asked you to leave. That all came from you in you good-bye letter which YOU posted. I do not know of anyone else involved.
You said.......
"Don't worry Major, your response put a smile on my lips also - so, so, predictable."
No need to be concerned sir.......I do not worry about one single thing or about what you or anyone else has to say or will say.
You made several comments on your Biblical understanding to reject my posted comments.
I will not comment on them because my thoughts were expressed in the previous post on the subject. All I can say is that I disagree with your thoughts on the matter and all anyone has to do is read the Bible.
Then you said.....
"John could not have made it any clearer even if what John and the Bible declare is rather inconvenient for your chosen theology.
You keep repeating the need to "rightly divide" the word of God but, I am sorry Major, you just do not put it into practice I'm afraid, as I have demonstrated many times over. Can I suggest you not keep inferring that you are and anybody who disagrees with you therefore isn't. "
These are once again "PERSONAL" comments directed at my stated comprehension of Biblical teachings.
These are "insulting comments" and are without excuse and are totally "un-called for" for a Christian to make.
In the future.....if you disagree with someone, please simply say that. The insinuations and insults are not needed or appreciated and all they do is open the door to retrobution which I am not doing. I have no desire to argue with you and have stated that several times now. I am at a loss as to why you feel the need to make personal comments.
Titus 2:7
"In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works, in doctrine showing uncorruptness, gravity, sincereity, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you".
"It was my friends and brothers and sisters in Christ here who reminded me of why I should stay."
Whether you go or stay was all totally in your mind and power. No one else mentioned it or thought of it as I am aware of so why should it even be an issue?
You said.......
"My friends and brothers and sisters reminded me that those who continue to oppose me here are not the majority, just prolific in their opposition."
I was not aware that anyone was opposed to you??? Some have disagreed with your explinations of the Bible and I am certainly one of those...but to say "opposition" I believe is an incorrect statement. The word "opposition" implies that there is an effort to harm or in some way hurt your cause. Speaking only for myself.....nothing could be further from the truth.
You said......
"Sorry Major, after a lot of prayerful consideration I have decided to stick around for a while."
There is no reason whatsoever to apologize to me. I never asked you to leave. That all came from you in you good-bye letter which YOU posted. I do not know of anyone else involved.
You said.......
"Don't worry Major, your response put a smile on my lips also - so, so, predictable."
No need to be concerned sir.......I do not worry about one single thing or about what you or anyone else has to say or will say.
You made several comments on your Biblical understanding to reject my posted comments.
I will not comment on them because my thoughts were expressed in the previous post on the subject. All I can say is that I disagree with your thoughts on the matter and all anyone has to do is read the Bible.
Then you said.....
"John could not have made it any clearer even if what John and the Bible declare is rather inconvenient for your chosen theology.
You keep repeating the need to "rightly divide" the word of God but, I am sorry Major, you just do not put it into practice I'm afraid, as I have demonstrated many times over. Can I suggest you not keep inferring that you are and anybody who disagrees with you therefore isn't. "
These are once again "PERSONAL" comments directed at my stated comprehension of Biblical teachings.
These are "insulting comments" and are without excuse and are totally "un-called for" for a Christian to make.
In the future.....if you disagree with someone, please simply say that. The insinuations and insults are not needed or appreciated and all they do is open the door to retrobution which I am not doing. I have no desire to argue with you and have stated that several times now. I am at a loss as to why you feel the need to make personal comments.
Titus 2:7
"In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works, in doctrine showing uncorruptness, gravity, sincereity, sound speech that cannot be condemned, that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you".
The old Misty might have responded to this. But just in case you are waiting around for a reply I thought that I should let you know the new Misty chooses not to. I am sure people here are quite able to judge what has transpired for themselves and I am happy for them to do that. Indeed I encourage them always to do that in their own counsel of the Holy Spirit.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female . . ." (Gal 3:28). This passage doesn't intend that there were no more Jew or Greek nationality or etc., but the meaning is, that there is no difference between them, the middle wall of partition being broken down (Jews had the inner court, Gentiles had the outer court), and that, in the business of justification and salvation, it signified nothing whether a man was a Jew or a Greek, Christ and His Grace was available to all, or in other words, "the same Lord over all is rich unto all." "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon Him" (Rom 10:12).
"For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us" (Jew and Gentile; Eph 2:14). "Made both one", meaning, made the Jews and Gentiles both have one way to the Father and receive the same benefit--Grace.
"For He is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us" (Jew and Gentile; Eph 2:14). "Made both one", meaning, made the Jews and Gentiles both have one way to the Father and receive the same benefit--Grace.
I feel you have made the right decision Misty.
Teachers are to serve the flock more then reach the lost.
You look so tough in your avatar, I am glad to be sitting behind the pc when I disagree with you
Misty, you have been very much in my prayers lately. Praying that The Holy Spirit would lead you very clearly. I believe He has. Like King J I believe you have made the right decision.
In regard to the opposition you have faced, Rom 8:28 comes to mind for, I must admit, purely selfish reasons.
I could in NO WAY be described as an academic, quite the opposite. At times I may not fully grasp some of what is written, but more often than not, you are opposed and come back and further expand on the Word of God and it is then that I fully grasp your teaching and gleam a new insight into The Bible.
I recall Revlynn being very much opposed in several threads, and yet again it was in her answers to her opponents that I gleamed a new insight into The Word. As I stated above 'purely selfish reasons'.
I will finish with Gen 50:20 which I believe The Lord has put into my heart as an encouragement for you. Welcome back my friend and brother in Christ.
In regard to the opposition you have faced, Rom 8:28 comes to mind for, I must admit, purely selfish reasons.
I could in NO WAY be described as an academic, quite the opposite. At times I may not fully grasp some of what is written, but more often than not, you are opposed and come back and further expand on the Word of God and it is then that I fully grasp your teaching and gleam a new insight into The Bible.
I recall Revlynn being very much opposed in several threads, and yet again it was in her answers to her opponents that I gleamed a new insight into The Word. As I stated above 'purely selfish reasons'.
I will finish with Gen 50:20 which I believe The Lord has put into my heart as an encouragement for you. Welcome back my friend and brother in Christ.
Thankyou V1,
Very perceptive insight. That is indeed the very reason I persist, for the opportunity it provides to demonstrate to those who will see it, the reality and truth of the word of God, and how it is indeed the sword of the Spirit and sharper than any twoedged sword to cut through all things and reveal the truth (or otherwise) of them.
Warmest regards, Misty
I feel you have made the right decision Misty.
Teachers are to serve the flock more then reach the lost.
You look so tough in your avatar, I am glad to be sitting behind the pc when I disagree with you
Aahh, when you grow up in the Aussie bush tough is just what you grow along with calluses.
But if you think I look tough you should check out my daughter, she is the one who introduced me to how cool it is to own a sword.
But Netchaplain, if the Lord has declared there is no difference at all, why is it are you adhering to a theology that attempts to re-create a difference that the Lord Himself has already abolished and declared null and void??
Honestly my friend...there is nothing to respond to. That is why I seperated your comments from my responces to thos comments, therefore there is now no need to respond.
No my friend I am not waiting for a responce. My posting was answers to your, I AM BACK post of #49. And by the way...WELCOME BACK!
I am so glad to understand that you have turned over a new leaf. I have prayed for you that confrontation and arguments would go away and that we all could communicate on a higher level of love and peace and joy around the precious Word of God. Now of us know all there is and every single one of use needs to grow in knowledge, ME more that most.
Most of us are too old to constantially fuss and fight over things that we will never know until we get to heaven.
God bless you my friend.
Major out!
Galatians 3:28
New King James Version (NKJV)
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus".
Netchaplin.........Is that good news or what????
That simple Scripture says it all doesn't it!!! It tells me clearly that all believers are baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ making up the Church of the living God.
IMO the "baptizer" is NOT the minister of a church but the risen Christ Himself.
Matthew 3:11
New King James Version (NKJV)
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."
HE baptizes the believer in the Holy Spirit and into Himself, therby making the believer a member of Christ's own body...........a member of His flesh and bones.
Ephesians 5:30
New King James Version (NKJV)
30 "For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."
This simple statement from God's Word tells us that Christ and those who believe in Him and are born again, are truely ONE FLESH. What a tremendous Biblical truth this is. I believe that it is very important for all believers to grasp what their "position" in Christ really means. If we are to ever understand and appreciate our position in Jesus Christ by grace....it is imperitive that we understand this doctrine.
Many dear and precious believers are losing out in abundtant living because of their inability to grasp their position IN Christ as a child of God, a son of God, an heir of God and a joint heir with the Lord Jesus.... EVEN NOW SITTING WITH HIM IN HEAVENLY PLACES.
Ephesians 2:6
New King James Version (NKJV)
6" and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus".
Having said that.......Paul then goes on to point out that there is neither Jew, nor Greek, neither bond nor free, neither male or female............"we are all one in Christ".
All are baptized into one body by one Spirit. All are made to drink into one Spirit. The literal Greek here says........."YE ARE ALL ONE MAN IN CHRIST JESUS".
Since that is the case......we are IN Christ who are born again, therefore we come to God on the same basis which is FAITH in Christ. That can only mean that the inheritance is not by the Law BUT BY THE PROMISE. The inheritance does not come through good works nor by keeping the Law, BUT ONLY BY GRACE THROUGH THE FINISHED WORK OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST...........PLUS NOTHING!
I hope those who are reading this can now see that it is all Christ!!!!
Those who are "one flock" in Christ are those who believe in Christ before they see Him (believing Jews and Gentiles), these comprise His Curch or Body and Bride. Most of the Jewish nation will probably not be a part of this (only the Jews who believe before the Millinnium) Body because they will be patakers of the Abrahamic Covenant and just like the Law of Moses, it will not include Gentiles. The unbelieving Jews will be under there own New Covenent (Ezek 36:27), which will be seperate from the Church. The "one flock" is comprised of this; "for to make in Himself of twain (Christian Jews and Gentiles) one new man . . ." (Eph 2:15). The unbelieving Jews who exist before Christ's return (which is now the majority of the Jewish nations) will believe in Christ after His return. Different position of blessing (Jhn 20:29)!!!
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (new because it won't be of the Law of Moses) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an Husband unto them, saith the LORD. But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law (new, not old, as stated above) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jer 31:-33).
Before the removal of the "middle wall of partition" (Eph 2:14) and the "taking away" of the Law (Heb 10:9), there existed a difference between the Jew and Gentile. The Jews were the only ones under the Law of Moses and they were the only the only chosen people of God (Deu 7:6). This was why the Gentiles worshiped seperately in the temple with a wall between them and the Jews. This is the meaning of "no difference" now.
"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (new because it won't be of the Law of Moses) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which My covenant they brake, although I was an Husband unto them, saith the LORD. But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put My law (new, not old, as stated above) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jer 31:-33).
Before the removal of the "middle wall of partition" (Eph 2:14) and the "taking away" of the Law (Heb 10:9), there existed a difference between the Jew and Gentile. The Jews were the only ones under the Law of Moses and they were the only the only chosen people of God (Deu 7:6). This was why the Gentiles worshiped seperately in the temple with a wall between them and the Jews. This is the meaning of "no difference" now.