Three Lesbian Women 'marry' Each Other, Claim To Be World's First 'throuple'
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I think you are both in agreement on this one.
Maybe we are, yes.
Well we are all called to die to sin and to overcome sin, not to promote and condone sin in the Name of Christ. And anyone who does such things should not think that is true biblical "faith".
We sin when we wrestle control from Christ to ourselves, and do things our way. Learning to let Christ control our every thoughts and actions takes a life time to learn. Let this mind be in you....the love of God controls us......
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
2Co 5:14 For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one has died for all, therefore all have died;
PeaceLikeaRiver
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I fail to see how I promote and condone sin. I may not see sin in the same places you do, but that doesn't mean you have God in your corner and I don't.
The Bible warns of such things so we can in no wise be afraid because the Lord is with us.
I love this scripture in your signature: Eze 13:22 "Because with lies you have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and you have strengthened the hands of the wicked, so that he does not turn from his wicked way to save his life.
It is the perfect salve for this particular topic. (HUG) Thank you for having that there to share.
James 4:17 So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
One does not need to be God to know right from wrong according to God's word and therefore know what sin is. We are born with a fallen nature, a sinful nature. We are to judge with righteous judgment and discern sin from righteousness.
How else can we lead a life of holiness? And lead others by example so that they might realize their sinful nature and seek to hear the still sure voice of God that shall lead them to redemption.
You sound very angry in the posts you've made thus far. Why are you not at peace?
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
I never said we were not sinful by nature. I simply refuse to use the word "PERVERSION" as freely and wantonly as two people on this forum do. I refuse to hate homosexuals, I don't think that is the Christian thing to do, I don't think it what Christ would have done. It is not my place to call other people sinners, I will focus on myself, and I think that is what we should all do.
Because I am tired of the vast majority of Christians being blamed for the hateful and judgemental words of a few radicals.
Do you not encounter this daily, charges and accusations of Christians being intolerant, judgmental and hateful? Do you not want to deny that charge?
If this is a peaceful faith we have to live it thus.
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Have you ever sought the etymology of the word, "perversion"? Link Here
Homosexual sex is sinful fornication. Which the Bible condemns. Be it by those who are heterosexual, bisexual, or homosexual.
Homosexuality is also contrary to natural law. In the old testament God calls the act an abomination.
When God levies judgment upon the sin of homosexuality, which is homosexual sex, who are you to proclaim you assume a loftier position than he? That is hubris, and pride, and that is a sin.
I know no Christian who hates homosexuals. Nor do they hate other sinners.
Jesus said we are to love our neighbor as ourselves. However, he did not say we should love their behaviors and wrong actions. Jesus demonstrated that when he took a whip to the money changers in his fathers house. He levied judgment and swift punishment upon them.
How is the Christian to be self-absorbed, as you espouse when you claim you'll keep to yourself and not see anyone else as doing wrong, and profess themselves to be Christ like at the same time?
At the end of a life the unrepentant are judged for their iniquities. And they suffer for eternity the judgment and punishment afforded the unredeemed.
How can you argue you are happy to be partly responsible for that? By turning your eyes away from the sin in others and allowing them to live unredeemed and fallen in their sinful nature you are abdicating the admonishment to spread the good news. That there is something more, something better, than to die in sin.
Colossians 3:5
Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
In fact, you're denouncing the admonishment in scripture wherein we are told to judge with righteous judgment. And I think that may be so because the scripture is misunderstood. Note the bold underlined part of the passage below.
Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Realize you are a sinner. As you sin now in fact judging others, arriving at that judgment from a place of anger. You are sinning against yourself and the members to whom you refer. And yet, once you realize you are not perfect you can realize that there are others who are in deficit of God's will and word. How can you hope to lead anyone to realize the truth of God if you allow them to reside and act out in the dark silences of the enemy?
PeaceLikeaRiver
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Have a look at this link:
http://ourspiritnow.org/2009/04/more-testing-misues/
Now, once you've had a look at it, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT, I would like to make the simple observation that what you assume to be so cut and dried and obvious about this issue clearly is not.
You are simply choosing to believe what you have been told, and you can make the charge that I'm doing the same thing. The fact remains this issue is contentious and there's no place for self-righteousness or judging.
Furthermore, you have organizations like the American Psychological Association and American Psychiatric Association that disagree with you, and these are highly respected bodies of science.
Your words also apply to yourself in every single respect.
Please show me the scripture wherein God or Jesus approve same sex sexual relations.
No, the term, Homosexual, does not appear in the scriptures. However, it is a falsehood to argue that homosexuality is not condemned in the scriptures.
In fact the passages in the link you shared prove it so. The excuse that the scriptures that condemn homosexuality were only referring to male temple prostitutes and not gays is not true.
The pagans who engaged in sexual rights in pagan temples, and engaged in same sex sexual relations, were described in those passages denouncing the behaviors for the express purpose of using those pagan rites as an example of the behavior God condemned. And as such because the Hebrews would have been aware of the pagans activities it was to let God's people know those sinful behaviors and lusts were what God denounced and forbid the Hebrews to emulate.
Homosexuality does not have to be the term that is used in this passage so as to deliver the message that gay sex is forbidden.
Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it (is) abomination.”
"Abomination" aka/ tow’ebah, is a term used to describe something that is disgusting, unclean, wicked, before God.
Laying with man as one does with a woman refers to the sex act.
Your false premise, that the word homosexuality is not in the Bible, while correct, is none the less false at its base. Because other than that Greek Latin word origin, Homos= Same (and) Sexualis (Latin) Sex or Sexual, you can provide no scriptural proof in any language; Greek, Latin, Aramaic, Hebrew, wherein a single scripture shows that God not only created the man for the man and the woman for the woman, but that he endorsed the same sex sexual relationship of humans. Not one. While besides numerous references to condemnation of homosexuality in the old testament, the new testament even in Romans 1 shows same sex sexuality is an abomination to God.
Again, you argue we have no right to judge sin. Gay sexual sin at that. However, in doing this you esteem yourself to be of a superior nature than is God. Who not only judges sin, gay sin included, but admonishes that we are to judge with righteous judgment as well.
How are we to help spread the good news of Christ Jesus if we refuse to realize sinners need to repent in order to find salvation in Christ Jesus? You'd rather gays go to Hell because they are unredeemed than to realize God has already judged them as worthy of damnation because their sinful nature permits them to act unrepentant.
The APA stopped being a credible and respected body when they abandoned their duty to mental health in the face of threats, riots ,and gay activist bullying and augmented the DSM to say the same thing it always did about homosexuality while altering the nomenclature so as to get away with saying it without the threat of violence upon the APA.
The APA elected to edit all editions of the DSM after volume 2 so as to no longer classify homosexuality as a mental illness and did so not because research proved it was not a mental illness.
Rather, they did so because of the pressure and harassment that was pursued against the APA by radical ultra-left gay activist groups.
Instead of keeping to the former diagnosis of mental illness, APA arrived at the decision to fold to the pressure gay activist groups put upon them. And in the process the APA and subsequent publications of the DSM and to date state the exact same thing about homosexual behavior as before. The difference being the nomenclature employed to do so.
This in effect sated the ultra-leftist agenda that descended upon the mental health professionals demanding homosexuality be identified as 'normal'. While reiterating the APA's prior diagnosis that it is a disorder.
In other words, the APA, under pressure and with the help of rioting , "cured" homosexuality with an edit in the Diagnostic and Statistics Manual.
To date homosexuality is identified in the DSM as "Sexual Orientation Disturbance".
Excerpted from DSM: PDF
(Page 2) Similarly, by no longer listing it as a psychiatric disorder we are not saying that it is "normal" or as valuable as heterosexuality.
(Page 3 Excerpt) "...By creating a new category, Sexual orientation disturbance, we will be applying a label only those homosexuals who are in some way bothered by their sexual orientation, some of whom may come to us for help.
Page 3 Excerpt) "...This revision in the nomenclature provides the possibility of finding a homosexual to be free of psychiatric disorder,
and provides a means to diagnose a mental disorder whose central feature is conflict about homosexual behavior.
Therefore, this change should in no way interfere with or embarrass those dedicated psychiatrists and
psychoanalysts who have devoted themselves to understanding and treating those homosexuals who have been
unhappy with their lot. They, and others in our field, will continue to try to help homosexuals who suffer from what
we can now refer to as Sexual orientation disturbance, helping the patient accept or live with his current sexual
orientation, or if he desires, helping him to change it."
Yes, I know that.
Do you?
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PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
Jesus was silent on the issue. And you cannot logically use Jesus' silence on a matter to assume he opposed it.
And that is an awful lot of assuming on your part. Do you have an authoritative source to prove the relations mentioned were homosexual in nature? I'm guessing not.
Would you like to harbor a guess as to how many different ways that single line of scripture can be translated, retranslated, mistranslated, interpreted, reinterpreted, misinterpreted over thousands of years? Even now it reads as extremely vague to my own eyes. First of all, is a man being addressed, or a woman? If it's a woman, you're telling her not to lie with mankind. Should we then assume man? Also, if I "lie with" a man OR a woman, how is anything sexual being understood? And, if you're going to tell me that in those days "lie with" meant "have sex with", then again, you have to tell me what translation you're using, who interpreted that translation, and based on what. My best guess is there is no one on earth with that kind of insight, knowledge or understanding. No, what I believe you are doing, is taking a personal prejudice against homosexual people, and bending your Bible to support your own beliefs. As so many do.
Just because you deem it false does not make it so.
And what have you proven? If a person falls in love with someone else who's a consenting adult, and they are happy and compatible and enrich one another's lives, why should anyone, God included, take issue with that? You're looking for scriptural proof and finding at best a few tenuously worded and hotly contested bits of scripture. Take those away and you yourself are left with nothing to attack homosexuals with, so why do it? Especially now that you've been given room for doubt with the article you were sent earlier. A beautiful opportunity to consider that maybe the Bible doesn't want you hurting other human beings. What are you going to do with that opportunity? Shoot it to the ground so you can continue to discriminate, or consider that just maybe there has been a flaw in your understanding?
What nonsense, I'm not making myself superior to God in any way, merely saying that I'm not going to condemn or judge anyone. You are considering homosexuality to be sin, and my opinion is that it is not, and furthermore my opinion is that it is GOD'S opinion that it is not. Why would a loving God create gay people just to persecute and hate them?
No one is arguing that sinners should be repentant. But I fail to see how falling in love is a sin. And you have a real problem with that, apparently. Are you suggesting gay people live loveless, sexless lives? Do you think that's what God wants for them? Do you think that that's the only way for them to avoid hell? If so, I want nothing to do with the God you believe in.
That is an old and ridiculous and often-debunked myth. You cannot lobby a medical/scientific body merely because you don't like their evidence. We have far more studies on the subject than ever before, we know a lot more about human sexuality than we did when the Bible was written. It's as simple as that. And "ex-gay" organizations are likewise found to be fraudulent, with the main one, Exodus, shutting their own doors recently, repudiating their own aims with an apology to gay people
PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
That gay people lobbied is not in dispute. That homosexuality was removed as an illness BECAUSE OF that lobby is the part that is nonsense. It was removed due to facts, findings and evidence....not because a few people made demands.
Jesus didn't condemn Zoophilia, pedophilia, nor rape. But I will argue those sins remain sins.
Furthermore, Jesus was a Jew. And at the time of his ministry he and those Jews who traveled with him and those to whom he spoke were all under the Mosaic covenant. Which did condemn homosexuality. Leviticus 18:22 and; 20:13. Jesus was aware of this as were the Jews to whom he ministered.
Also, you can not argue that because you imagine Jesus did not condemn homosexuality outright that it is not a sin. Well, you can. But you can not support that argument with scripture. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of Jesus condemning immoral fornication.
The scriptures should suffice. However, other than that, knowing the culture of the time, ancient Rome being pagan, polytheistic, and that scripture condemns male temple prostitution as well as references to men laying with men as with women, the evidence is apparent.
While you elect to ignore it, because it is hard to miss when the word of God condemns the sexual act of a man laying with a man as he would with a woman, no one can change your mind. The scriptures are clear. You do not agree with God's word and yet you do not have any scriptures to show God validates homosexuality as behavior he approves.
The problem here is you keep telling others that it is their beliefs that are wrong. That is your opinion.
What you do not do, indeed what you can never do, is show any translation in scripture wherein God identifies homosexual relationships as under his grace. What you can never do is show any scripture wherein God says he created the man for the man, the woman for the woman, and that same sex sexual relationships are blessed by God's ordinances.
Enough with saying it is other peoples beliefs at work here. Prove with scripture your beliefs. That God approves homosexuality. Using of course any word in lieu of "Homosexuality" , per any translation you prefer, to do so.
Thanks. Prove me wrong. Show us any language translation of Bible scripture wherein Homosexuality is approved by God.
Contested by whom? Ultra-liberal advocates for sin that argue homosexuality is natural? While from a Biblical perspective they can never argue that with a Christian and show that Christian the scripture that supports the perspective?
Natural Law (which is God's creative laws) concerns itself with survival of the species. Survival of the fittest. Pro-creation.
Show me the scientific data, not talking scripture or religious ideology here, wherein homo-sexuals in and of themselves can pro-create so as to survive the human species.
My dear, for all your protestations against scripture and God's word you have demonstrated repeatedly that you can not prove God created homosexuals as part of his divine plan to insure the earth's population be fruitful so as to multiply.
You can not demonstrate using a single scripture that God does not call same sex carnality a sin.
Of course Jesus condemned homosexuality. In the old testament and in the new. Are you familiar with 2 Timothy 3:16? All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Are you ignoring Paul's writings concerning same sex sexuality? Are you choosing to ignore the fate of Sodom? Where do you imagine the term, 'sodomite', derived from?
God didn't create gay people just to persecute them.
Would you ask why did God create serial killers just to persecute them after having set down the sixth commandment? Would you ask why did God create the rapist just to condemn their behavior as sin? The thief? Just to condemn their behavior under the 8th commandment?
Christians don't hate gays. No matter how frequently you insist that is true it is not so. Christians are to hate sin as God hates sin. What you espouse is to ignore sin. You don't judge so as to send people to Heaven or Hell. But you are commanded to employ righteous judgment when encountering the behaviors of your neighbors.
Do you imagine there is no reason for the scriptures commanding the Christian to put on the armor of God in this world? Where Satan prowls like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour?
It is like arguing serial killers are good people. Car jackers are good people. Rapists are good people. Pedophiles are good people.
Serial killers love to kill. Car jackers love to steal cars. Rapists love to assault their victims and use their body as a weapon because they derive satisfaction from violence. And pedophiles argue theirs is a sexual orientation that has every right to exercise itself if the child, as sexual being, consents.
Perhaps you should study the Bible to learn that people who exploit and indulge their sinful nature because they love it are still sinners.
In matters of homosexuality, there is no gay gene. People are not born gay. It is a sinful behavior like any other behavior. Heterosexuals are as culpable as sinners when they engage in sexual behaviors outside of the Bibles ordinance.
Rather than condemn God for his laws of nature and righteous behavior, perhaps you should ask yourself why you believe this one particular sin should be condoned because it is exercised under the excuse those committing to it love to indulge in it.
As to your remark regarding, "my God", my dear I would hazard to tell you there is only one God. And it is my sincere hope that you find your way to him while there is still time.
Thank you for admitting you never read the links I provided to both the APA/DSM and the indisputable proofs afforded by mental health professionals in their testimonies related to the bullying that ensued against the APA due to the DSM2's classification of homosexuality as a mental illness.
Your proclamation of myth is a falsehood in light of those proofs. Your proclamations are also invalid when you care to protest in line with the same ultra-leftist gay lobby that commenced the bullying and harassment against the APA.
What happened to your proclamation of no judgment?
Where is your tolerance for those who have renounced their sin and are no longer sexually active as homosexuals? I'll refrain from "debating" you at this point. I do thank you for making your agenda here very clear in the midst of your emotions allowing the truth to pour forth from your mouth. (keyboard) May God find his way into your heart. Amen.
*edit: fixed quote bracket error*
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PeaceLikeaRiver
Inactive
No one would argue, but to argue either way you can't use the Bible. It's silent. A more obvious reason to oppose those things is nothing would be consensual. We have to be talking about adult human beings.
You just quoted Leviticus again, which I argued earlier was not and could not have been speaking about homosexuality since the word did not exist.
You can't use scripture, period. It's silent. You cannot use Jesus' words to defend OR condemn homosexuality.
You're still assuming. But even if you weren't, you said something interesting with "the culture of the time" - interesting that you think we should still be held accountable by ancient laws applicable to ancient Rome.
That works both ways. You don't have anything either. You appear to be either relying on a silent Bible or on some vague pieces of scripture that are debatable.
Are you not doing exactly the same thing? All you have are opinions and interpretations, which might be incorrect. You don't consider even for a moment that your understandings might not be correct. And I'm not singling you out in that by any means. I'm just saying that it's utterly daft to assume there's only one understanding of these things, and that you're the one who has it. Why do you think we have over 30 thousand Protestant denominations? Everyone understands things slightly differently. No one has the one true definite truth. But so many think they do.
Nope, can't show you that. I can't show you any scripture that talks about your car either, or the computer you're typing on right now. Since the Bible has nothing to say about them, shall we assume we shouldn't be using them?
Enough with saying it is other peoples beliefs at work here. Prove with scripture your beliefs. That God approves homosexuality. Using of course any word in lieu of "Homosexuality" , per any translation you prefer, to do so.
I think John 3:16 should cover it nicely.
Mark 12:31 also does the trick: The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
I think I've stated now several times, even within this very message, that you can't use scripture AT ALL for this. Put your Bible away. You can't use it for this purpose no matter how you try.
This has nothing to do with being liberal, this is mental health organizations and human rights. I don't see any place for the Bible in this at all since I argue that it is silent on the issue.
Obviously homosexuals can't procreate. So what? The entire species isn't homosexual so it's hardly an issue.
I wouldn't attempt to prove that, I think God created homosexuals to live on this earth and be happy like everyone else. Call me crazy but I think everyone has that right.
You're opening a whole different can of worms now. Do you really imagine that only homosexuals partake of sodomy? If that's the case, how many lesbians do you think do? My guess is practically none. And straight people - THEY never practice it? Don't even pretend for a moment that's true. And that's not even taking into consideration all the gay men who DON'T partake of it.
I think part of your problem here is you're painting all homosexuals with the exact same brush. If you wanted to come down on people for promiscuity, adultery and other things that DEMONSTRABLY are dangerous and unhealthy, you'd have a lot less objection from me. The fact is, there are gay and straight people who are promiscuous and adulterous, and there are gay and straight people who are monogamous and faithful. THAT to me is a much more sensible way to group behaviour, not simply judging based on an attraction that no one has any control over.
You are now equating homosexuals with serial killers and rapists, and I choose not to address this patent and insulting absurdity. How strange that just a short time ago you were asking ME why I was so angry.
I do not ignore sin, merely do not define it in the rather broad and insensitive terms you do. That doesn't make me wrong. I'm not even going to pretend to know what you mean by "righteous judgement" - I will judge individual situations as I see fit.
But you're not wearing the armor of God, you're wearing the armor of hatred and bigotry. That is not something I think Jesus wanted you to do. You want to condemn gay people to hell and eternal punishment and torture, and I don't. Gee, which one of us has got Satan standing behind them?
If you can seriously compare homosexuality, which no one has the slightest bit of control over, to serial killers, car jackers, rapists and pedophiles, in ANY way, you are really not someone I would want to know in real life.
Perhaps you should stop using the Bible as a weapon to beat people up with, and learn to read/use it a little bit more reasonably and more in tune with the 21st century.
When did you choose to be straight? Do you seriously think gay people look at someone and decide to be attracted to them, or do you think they do what YOU did, which was just naturally fall in love with a person you were attracted to? Don't you see how completely and totally absurd what you're saying here is? And do you think that gay people are making a choice to oppose God, rebel against God, etc., in doing so? I'm willing to bet that when YOU fell in love, God didn't even enter your thoughts for a moment, you just fell in love. So why would it be ANY different for gay people?
Putting words in my mouth again? Just because I disagree with you, think you're misled, think you're wrong, and think you're completely deluded, it doesn't mean I'm condemning God. That's a very interesting spin you are putting on things. I don't think people would focus on this issue nearly so much if it wasn't for bigots constantly bashing people with it.
I'm fine, thanks. You worry about yourself. You have a lot to be worried about.
It is pointless, I can give you a bunch of links from NON-bigoted sources that just turn your entire claim on its tail. You will not see the truth even when ten zillion scientists are screaming it in your face.
They are still homosexuals. Anti-gay therapy is a sham. Telling homosexuals not to have sex isn't any kind of success, and it does nothing to change their attractions.What happened to your proclamation of no judgment?
Funny how when you have a point of view it's an opinion, and when I have one it's an "agenda". That's very revealing, don't you think?
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Be blessed, Where is the Messiah.
Is all the negative ratings your way of blessing me? Thank you.
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