Unity and Uniformity...

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Musicmaster said:
I'd like to throw something else out there for thought:

How many types of Theosophy are there? I don't think anyone has ever made an official count nor identification of all the branches and rabbit holes out there as to how that system of doubting God's word actually exist. I'd like to share this with you:

How Satan Deceives People

Genesis 3:1-4 teaches us how Satan always works. The first thing the serpent (identified as Satan according to Revelation 20:2) was to cause Eve to doubt. Then once the Devil gets you to doubt, he says that the Bible is not true. And then finally, he removes the Word of God completely (or corrupts it to render it useless) and abandons you.

Satan's Three Step Plan:

  1. You question God's Word and plant a seed of doubt in the victim's mind.
  2. Once the seed of doubt is planted, then you tell them, “It's a good book, but it's not perfect.” [Or that it doesn't apply to us today because it wasn't written to us.]
  3. After you cause the doubt, then you remove the Bible. Now that God's Word has been removed, man becomes deified and Satan tells them that their feelings [or personal beliefs] are the standard of truth. This is Satan's method and it has worked for thousands of years.
The philosophy and agenda are innocent sounding enough, and no doubt are promoted by many sincere people; HOWEVER, ecumenism is one of Satan's primary tactics to infiltrate the New Testament Church, corrupting souls and leading them astray from the Word of God. Ecumenism is of the Devil, and I will explain to you clearly why.

The Bible teaches that it's better to be divided by truth, than to be united by error. 2nd Corinthians 6:14, “Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?” Bible-believing Christians are commanded not to form unequal yokes with unbelievers (i.e., the unsaved). This means that a New Testament Church ought not yoke together in any capacity with Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Seventh-Day Adventists, Catholics, Lutherans, Charismatics, Lordship Salvationists or other deadly cults that damn men's souls to Hell forever. Whether it be the heresy of Baptismal Salvation, Works Salvation, Sacramental Salvation or Lordship Salvation; these are all perversions of the simplicity that is in Christ (2nd Corinthians 11:3-4). Eternal life is a free gift (Romans 5:15; 6:23) that you simply receive by faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God (John 1:14; 20:31).

The Bible uses the simplest of terms in 2nd Corinthians 6:14... “light” verses “darkness,” and “righteousness” verses “unrighteousness.” There is no common denominator. There is no unity. This is exactly what God is saying to us. James 4:4 tells us that friendship with the world makes a person God's enemy. It is a shame that professed Christians are forming ties with the enemies of God. Those religious teachers who pervert the simplicity of the Gospel and corrupt the Doctrine of Christ are the children of darkness. We ought not hobnob and rub shoulders with them in ecumenical apostasy and sinful compromise. This is why it is evil to support, promote or yoke together with any religion that perverts the Gospel or corrupts the Doctrine of Christ. Thus, Biblical Christians ought not fellowship with heathen Catholics. What fellowship hath light with darkness?

[My additions are in the square brackets in the above excerpt, quoted from http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False Doctrines/Ecumenism/unity_with_satan.htm.]

One of the things that brought this article into glaring contrast for me was a video I saw on Youtube yesterday. The scholar talked about how wrong followers of Christ are for saying such things as, "This world is not my home. I'm a citizen of a Heavenly Kingdom." In other words, it's his thinking that we should speak in terms that place us here as being world dwellers along with all unbelievers, as if that will help us to share the Gospel more effectively with them. Our being foreigners to this world is what we are called to by the Lord. For crying out loud, Jesus said He was going to prepare a place for us. Why would we want to call a place "my home" that's about to burn away into nothingness, and thus alienate ourselves from the Lord our God?

That's the kind of garbage we should reject outright. We are at enmity with the world, not friends of the world. Why become an enemy of God in order to allegedly become a more effective witness for Christ? What Christ does that witness apart from a false one? That's like walking into a bar, getting drunk with all the other unbelieving and sinful drunks, all in order to witness "more effectively" to them. Folks, just how blatant and glaring does Satan have to be before more believers to actively stand back and distance themselves from such, calling onto the carpet those who are in league with the tactics of the devil?

If we're going to remain a meaningful and effective witness for Christ Jesus, then we must stand on the cape of any and all falsehoods to keep them from progressing in our midst, and call them to account. If they refuse to acquiesce to the written and timeless truths of God's word, then they are darkness in our midst. Playing with fire while doused with gasoline is the game of fools. I prefer to not allow myself to be doused with gasoline, and to let the only fire around me to be the fire of Holy Spirit within me.

There is a discernable limit as to just how far we allow darkness to go before it must be cast out. Grace and mercy should characterize our love for others, but there comes a time when we must mark those teachings out there that are known tools of Satan, and those who promote those false doctrines, and deal with them decisively at some point to keep the taint of their disease from spreading. The spirit of ecumenism has driven many to adopt a level of tolerance that's simply not healthy to the body.

May we all hold to a love for the absolute truth of God's word, and promote loving discipline when and where it's needed. We should remain iron sharpening iron. In that way, the taint of the rust is scraped off, and the shiny, new blade edge is ready to cut both ways, rightly dividing the word of truth in all things.

MM
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The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture. Traditions and opinions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith.
 
Musicmaster said:
Satan's Three Step Plan:

  1. You question God's Word and plant a seed of doubt in the victim's mind.
  2. Once the seed of doubt is planted, then you tell them, “It's a good book, but it's not perfect.” [Or that it doesn't apply to us today because it wasn't written to us.]
  3. After you cause the doubt, then you remove the Bible. Now that God's Word has been removed, man becomes deified and Satan tells them that their feelings [or personal beliefs] are the standard of truth. This is Satan's method and it has worked for thousands of years.
The philosophy and agenda are innocent sounding enough, and no doubt are promoted by many sincere people; HOWEVER, ecumenism is one of Satan's primary tactics to infiltrate the New Testament Church, corrupting souls and leading them astray from the Word of God. Ecumenism is of the Devil, and I will explain to you clearly why.
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Great point and a reminder to us from where our living hope comes from. I would think Not from wondering or marveling.

I would agree Legion or the father of lies will do anything to keep mankind from coming to the “end of faith” the assurance of the salvation of one’s new soul, which as new creatures we have received from it as those born again from the very beginning. Or hearing of His faith, the labor of His love working in us.

Philippians 1:6 informs us if we have received that teaching work he will finish it working with us till the end.

The gospel as a labor of love is revealed beautifully in 1 Peter.

1 Peter1: 9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

By the same one spirit of faith (not by sight what the eyes see). .Christ working with us we can look back to the demonstration. By it they looked ahead to the same spirit of faith as it is written .

2 Corinthians 4:13 We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;

I think it’s part of the reason why Jesus instructed Nicodemus not to marvel or wonder but rather believe the gospel. (prophecy)


Nicodemus coming from that body of men (Pharisees with Sadducees) As a law of the fathers they made Jesus into a circus seal saying perform us a miracle as a wonder then we will believe you are who you say .This proves they had no faith as it is written coming from the Bible. They were trusting what the eyes see, the temporal .Or the pagan foundation of all the kingdoms of the world

The unbelieving Jew and gentile served a god of wonderment. . . . . . never coming to the end of the matter (faith, belief) . No yes or no.. . Limbo

Same applies to doubting Thomas . Doubting not the opposite of faith . Un-belief or no faith is.


Below the father brining words of prophecy through Jesus lovingly commanding words described as Spirit, and life giving working empowering Thomas so he could believe the father not seen. And as a witness with Thomas. Thomas’ mouth confesses the work of Christ working in Him Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.. .removing all doubt .The father rebuking the unseen spirit casting it out. A picture of the rest we have with him if we do not harden our hearts.

John 20:26-28 King James Version (KJV) And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Or in other words walk or hear the understanding of another by faith the eternal not seen not by sight or touch the temporal seen.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 
Major said:
The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture. Traditions and opinions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith.
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The ONLY inspired truth for all doctrines and practices are the scriptures!
 
Garee said:
I think it’s part of the reason why Jesus instructed Nicodemus not to marvel or wonder but rather believe the gospel.
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I think - my opinion here - that your misapplying Jesus' expression when He said to Nicodemus not to wonder at what He said...

He was telling him he had to be born again to see God's Kingdom, and Nicodemus didnt understand (see John 3) and asked a specific question - how can a man enter into his mothers womb to be born a second time?

Jesus said don't wonder (or think it's an amazingly impossible statement to declare necessary) because Jesus was speaking of a spiritual rebirth, not one of the flesh.

We have a tendency to think in material terms about things, but much of what Jesus says isn't always what it seems on its face, such as needing to be born again.

The things of God are spiritually discerned, because the flesh/material mindset can't make sense of them.

Jesus never told people to just shut up and believe without question, HE explained His meanings very clearly. However, if you can't understand beyond the physical world, you'll never understand even the explanation.

I think the verse your looking for is the one where Christ tells us that a wicked and adulterous generation looks for signs, and to them no sign will be given save the sign of Jonah. (Found in Matthew 16:4)
 
MatthewG said:
Do you believe in sola scriptura?
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I hesitate to answer that until I understand your knowledge of that Latin phrase? What does it mean to you? Answering either way could be a trap that I'm not willing to fall into until I know what your understanding is for the meaning of that phrase.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
I hesitate to answer that until I understand your knowledge of that Latin phrase? What does it mean to you? Answering either way could be a trap that I'm not willing to fall into until I know what your understanding is for the meaning of that phrase.

MM
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Just a heads up but most people who declare Sola Scriptura as doctrine simply mean it's the only infallible resource by which everything else uttered by men must either conform or fall.
 
Chris1 said:
Just a heads up but most people who declare Sola Scriptura as doctrine simply mean it's the only infallible resource by which everything else uttered by men must either conform or fall.
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I will await his response to see if that's his take on it. Assuming someone else is in line with the lingual and historic understanding of such phraseology can sometimes pan out some unsavory ties to hidden meanings that can give the appearance you or I have aligned ourselves with falsehood.

It's best, therefore, to not give the appearance of evil.

MM
 
Major said:
The Word of God is the only authority for the Christian faith. Traditions are valid only when they are based on Scripture and are in full agreement with Scripture. Traditions and opinions that contradict the Bible are not of God and are not a valid aspect of the Christian faith.
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That's true for many of us, but we're also reading some statements in here that declare the scriptures as irrelevant to us today. That's troubling, and therefore not taken lightly by we who hold the scriptures in such high esteem, with which I'm sure you agree.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
That's true for many of us, but we're also reading some statements in here that declare the scriptures as irrelevant to us today. That's troubling, and therefore not taken lightly by we who hold the scriptures in such high esteem, with which I'm sure you agree.

MM
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Yes I do which is why I have spoken to Matthew as polietly as possible.
 
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Chris1 said:
I think - my opinion here - that your misapplying Jesus' expression when He said to Nicodemus not to wonder at what He said...

He was telling him he had to be born again to see God's Kingdom, and Nicodemus didnt understand (see John 3) and asked a specific question - how can a man enter into his mothers womb to be born a second time?

Jesus said don't wonder (or think it's an amazingly impossible statement to declare necessary) because Jesus was speaking of a spiritual rebirth, not one of the flesh.

We have a tendency to think in material terms about things, but much of what Jesus says isn't always what it seems on its face, such as needing to be born again.

The things of God are spiritually discerned, because the flesh/material mindset can't make sense of them.

Jesus never told people to just shut up and believe without question, HE explained His meanings very clearly. However, if you can't understand beyond the physical world, you'll never understand even the explanation.

I think the verse your looking for is the one where Christ tells us that a wicked and adulterous generation looks for signs, and to them no sign will be given save the sign of Jonah. (Found in Matthew 16:4)
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Agreed!

It is the old addage of.....why add nonesense to common sense just to make NO sense!
 
Chris1 said:
He left the forum, but these are topics we can come to learn how best to address...

Such as the written word of God being irrelevant and more.
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Agreed. It does not matter who it is! When idea, and thoughts and opinions become more important that the Word of God, there is a problem!
 
Musicmaster said:
I hesitate to answer that until I understand your knowledge of that Latin phrase? What does it mean to you? Answering either way could be a trap that I'm not willing to fall into until I know what your understanding is for the meaning of that phrase.

MM
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Its that while we can and do read and use other study sources such as commentaries and dictionaries, the Bible ALONE is where we get our docttrines and practices all from!
 
Musicmaster said:
That's true for many of us, but we're also reading some statements in here that declare the scriptures as irrelevant to us today. That's troubling, and therefore not taken lightly by we who hold the scriptures in such high esteem, with which I'm sure you agree.

MM
Click to expand...
many today take the Bible as more like optional, as they will take what they can agree with, and reject those things they cannot accept!
 
Chris1 said:
I think - my opinion here - that your misapplying Jesus' expression when He said to Nicodemus not to wonder at what He said...

He was telling him he had to be born again to see God's Kingdom, and Nicodemus didnt understand (see John 3) and asked a specific question - how can a man enter into his mothers womb to be born a second time?

Jesus said don't wonder (or think it's an amazingly impossible statement to declare necessary) because Jesus was speaking of a spiritual rebirth, not one of the flesh.

We have a tendency to think in material terms about things, but much of what Jesus says isn't always what it seems on its face, such as needing to be born again.

The things of God are spiritually discerned, because the flesh/material mindset can't make sense of them.

Jesus never told people to just shut up and believe without question, HE explained His meanings very clearly. However, if you can't understand beyond the physical world, you'll never understand even the explanation.

I think the verse your looking for is the one where Christ tells us that a wicked and adulterous generation looks for signs, and to them no sign will be given save the sign of Jonah. (Found in Matthew 16:4)
Click to expand...

Thanks. I would think both parables represent the same thing . Prophecy is for those who believe .Sign as wonders for the faithless non converted ones . Not little faith but no faith that comes as it is written . . those who doubt not coming to the end , faith the yes or no . No limbo or wondering in between .

Nicodemus under a law of the fathers.( I heard it through the grape vine) loved to seek after signs and wonders .Jesus lovingly commanded Nicodemus to marvel not. Be surprised then believe as the end of the matter . Jesus teaching how to walk by faith as it is written

Again not as prevuiously.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
 
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