Unity and Uniformity...

[Chris1]

I would think both parables represent the same thing

Context is everything, and I don't see them meaning the same thing at all..

One meant my words have spiritual meaning here, and the other something different entirely.

Jesus came from heaven to earth with all signs and wonders... those people saw it all, right there. They heard other's accounts. They were themselves witness.

The question posed consistently to the religious elite wasn't listen to what I say and shut up, it was, rather, "from where do you say My Authority (to give new interpretation of Scripture, to heal the sick and to forgive sin - all of which they witnessed) comes from?"

They had signs and wonders (the lame walked, the blind saw, even the dead were healed), they had it all... what they didn't have was an ability to answer that question correctly... that Jesus' authority comes from God alone.

That's what made them a wicked and adulterous in that generation, they weren't willing to believe the plain evidences before them. So beyond what they were already given, there was only one thing more, then zip - the sign of Jonah...

Today we have those very same witnesses, all in first hand accounts written by those who knew Jesus, who shared with the world those new interpretations of Scripture, who shared how to interpret the New Covenant every day since in light of the Old, who shared with us that sign of Jonah...

And today those who were once spiritually blind now see, those who once walked by sight in darkness (lame) now walk in the light and can see, those who ail from the disease of sin now overcome the disease in Christ's forgiveness, as our debt is now paid and in Christ there is no fear of the Judgement.

They saw what the miracles represented - we are more blessed to get the real thing!

But I've gone on a walk here, likely at this point away from what we were discussing in the first place... lol. (I can talk now! Haha)

They aren't the same thing. If you want to see the dead raised - look for a new convert in Christ, and the miracle in that - more miraculous than the first creation itself is the new creation.

Look for the sign of Jonah... it's all around us, and stop looking for the material thing - the material and physical is transient, the spiritual eternal in Christ. It's the only sign men need.

They may have similarities, but different applications.

 

[MatthewG]

Sola scriptura means - to me -


Ah... A use of the scripture as authority while deferring from the contextual census that are able to be applied.

The contextual matters do not no longer matter and the scripture just is what it is, no matter what verse you use, what chapter from the verse is from.

It throws away context, and is like that of a sword that stabs people and slashes throats. With no way to have freedom to think, or have ideas or to compare other scriptures with the context provided.

Personally do not believe this is a good thing.

(It is not to say that there is not some application that can applied from looking at the word of God, and increasing a persons faith and the holy spirit/spirit of Christ with-in them, as they trust in the Lord Yeshua Christ, and the Father.)


Applying scriptures properly and in their place can prove beneficial however.

 

[crossnote]

Sola scriptura means - to me -


Ah... A use of the scripture as authority while deferring from the contextual census that are able to be applied.

The contextual matters do not no longer matter and the scripture just is what it is, no matter what verse you use, what chapter from the verse is from.

It throws away context, and is like that of a sword that stabs people and slashes throats. With no way to have freedom to think, or have ideas or to compare other scriptures with the context provided.

Personally do not believe this is a good thing.

(It is not to say that there is not some application that can applied from looking at the word of God, and increasing a persons faith and the holy spirit/spirit of Christ with-in them, as they trust in the Lord Yeshua Christ, and the Father.)


Applying scriptures properly and in their place can prove beneficial however.

MG, What if Sola Scriptura simply meant that Scripture is the ultimate authority when it comes to matters of faith and practice?...not tradition or man's philosophies etc.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Sola scriptura means - to me -


Ah... A use of the scripture as authority while deferring from the contextual census that are able to be applied.

The contextual matters do not no longer matter and the scripture just is what it is, no matter what verse you use, what chapter from the verse is from.

It throws away context, and is like that of a sword that stabs people and slashes throats. With no way to have freedom to think, or have ideas or to compare other scriptures with the context provided.

Personally do not believe this is a good thing.

(It is not to say that there is not some application that can applied from looking at the word of God, and increasing a persons faith and the holy spirit/spirit of Christ with-in them, as they trust in the Lord Yeshua Christ, and the Father.)


Applying scriptures properly and in their place can prove beneficial however.

Actually, it refers to ONLY the Bible alone is to be where all of our doctrines and practices are taken from!

 

[YeshuaFan]

MG, What if Sola Scriptura simply meant that Scripture is the ultimate authority when it comes to matters of faith and practice?...not tradition or man's philosophies etc.

That is what it means! Also , does not mean can only use the Bible, as can use other sources, but that the Bible is where we derive theology from!

 

[crossnote]

That is what it means! Also , does not mean can only use the Bible, as can use other sources, but that the Bible is where we derive theology from!

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Garee]

many today take the Bible as more like optional, as they will take what they can agree with, and reject those things they cannot accept!

I would ofer loking to the witness .Two kinds

Sola scriptura the witness of God is the reforming, restoring authority in any genreation . Wherever two or three are gathered together in the name of Christ. . . he is there working in the new hearts to both will and empower to do the power of His witness. . We have the treasure of that power in us but would never claim it was of us.

It forms us inwardly we do not form it .It as his witness forms unity in us.

John 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

The unseen witness of faith as it is written the greatest.

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

 

[Garee]

Thanks for the clarification.

I would agree not a tradition or man's philosophies etc. In that way we do not know Christ after the the rudiments of this world (the corrupted dying things seen) after the philosophies as oral I heard it through the grape vine theology.

First things first.
2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV)20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

In the 1st century reformation as well as the 15th century reformation men turned the authority as the witness of God upside down as if inspired from earth and not the word of God that falls like gospel rain . Using their own oral tradition they attempted to make the tradition of Christ’s “as it is written” to no effect so that they could keep their own private interpretation again as a commentary. Like fingerprints every man has one ..

Acts 24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the "law and in the prophets:"

What we offer. . they are our private interpretation or personal commentaries of what we think the witness of God is teaching .Private interpretations they do not become a source of faith ...as a law of the fathers .

Like in all cases usurping the witness of God and attributing it as the witness of men failed Any person cannot accuse one of offering a private interpretation without one of their own making their own the witness (private) of God.

We are warned of that wile of the evil one. We ignore the private interpretations that do despite to the grace of God . .

The beginning of the fall ... (thou will surely not die)

 

[MatthewG]

Hello everyone, there are scripture references here for you if you desire to go and check them out.

The word of God is a gift to us today, that we can look at as a reference. It is a tool for people to be able to use to strengthen their faith in God you see.

The danger of the phrase 'sola scriptura' or making scripture the ultimate authority is still like that of using a sword to place to the neck of people. As if to say if you do not do what this scripture is saying, you are going to be hurt and bleed because of it.

It like that bondage and tying someone up and making them submit. Forcefulness is not a true form of love yet a stripping of freedom - that is available in the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 5:1)

Sharing the word of God is a different type of method. You share the word of God with someone and you let them think about what is being said, and let them decide for themselves and let God - have the authority in their life and not the scripture. (Philippians 2:9-10) < Talks about how Yeshua Christ was given the name above all names.

Questions here would be:​

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How does God really become the authority in a persons life of ones Faith? (Matthew 7:29)​

Is Man the authority that believe they have the dominancy of ones faith? (2 Corinthians 1:23-24)​

Will all eventually bow before the Lord Jesus Christ at some point in life or sometime after this life because of him being exalted above all names - and things in the world? (Philippians 2:9-10)​

If you know the bible it talks about how you are the written letter - not of the actual letter - but of the Spirit which is our advocator. (2 Corinthians 3:1-8)

The holy spirit will remind you of scripture, and the holy spirit is given as a gift from God through faith having believing. (John 14:26; Romans 5:1-5)

So hope this helps you understand some more. Thank you for the question crossnote.

 

[crossnote]

I would agree not a tradition or man's philosophies etc. In that way we do not know Christ after the the rudiments of this world (the corrupted dying things seen) after the philosophies as oral I heard it through the grape vine theology.

First things first.
2 Peter 1:20-21 King James Version (KJV)20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

In the 1st century reformation as well as the 15th century reformation men turned the authority as the witness of God upside down as if inspired from earth and not the word of God that falls like gospel rain . Using their own oral tradition they attempted to make the tradition of Christ’s “as it is written” to no effect so that they could keep their own private interpretation again as a commentary. Like fingerprints every man has one ..

Acts 24:13-14 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me. But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the "law and in the prophets:"

What we offer. . they are our private interpretation or personal commentaries of what we think the witness of God is teaching .Private interpretations they do not become a source of faith ...as a law of the fathers .

Like in all cases usurping the witness of God and attributing it as the witness of men failed Any person cannot accuse one of offering a private interpretation without one of their own making their own the witness (private) of God.

We are warned of that wile of the evil one. We ignore the private interpretations that do despite to the grace of God . .

The beginning of the fall ... (thou will surely not die)

Garee, could you state your point in a sentence or two? I'm just not clear on what you are trying to convey.

 

[crossnote]

The danger of the phrase 'sola scriptura' or making scripture the ultimate authority is still like that of using a sword to place to the neck of people. As if to say if you do not do what this scripture is saying, you are going to be hurt and bleed because of it.

Would you rather have the State, Rome, a cult leader, yourself or God's Word as the ultimate authority pertaining to faith and practice?

It like that bondage and tying someone up and making them submit. Forcefulness is not a true form of love yet a stripping of freedom - that is available in the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 5:1)

The choice is ours to be set free through His Word...

John 8:31-32 (NASB) So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

Sharing the word of God is a different type of method. You share the word of God with someone and you let them think about what is being said, and let them decide for themselves and let God - have the authority in their life and not the scripture. (Philippians 2:9-10) < Talks about how Yeshua Christ was given the name above all names.

It is a very dangerous move to pit God's written Word against God Himself.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Would you rather have the State, Rome, a cult leader, yourself or God's Word as the ultimate authority pertaining to faith and practice?


The choice is ours to be set free through His Word...

John 8:31-32 (NASB) So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."


It is a very dangerous move to pit God's written Word against God Himself.

The scriptures are what God uses to give to his own direction and theology!

 

[MatthewG]

Crossnote you are asking me a question that you desire to know from me.

Rather have the Lord Yeshua Christ the Anointed One Son of God of Nazareth or the (Lord God Almighty) or God our Father as the authority in my life over my faith and practice. Not any men.​

​

Jesus Christ is the one who sets us free.​

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”

34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

So Jesus Christ here is telling the Jews who believed Him, to abide in what he has taught - to love, forgive, have mercy, have compassion, to have patience, to have kindness, to have gentleness, to have faithfulness, and if you believe - (Remember Jesus Christ is the one who baptize in the holy spirit) and you abide in Christ Yeshua through faith - you will be set free of bondage and slavery to sin.​

​

Of course we all still have problems in life, but now a believer who comes to God and the Lord Jesus Christ receive help by the spirit that is given to them in their faith. They also have scriptures to help support the in their life and God can help them overcome their temptations and sins that plague their heart, and minds. Though no one will ever be perfect like the Lord.​

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Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.​

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Later on after this chapter Paul will start talking about walking by the spirit.​

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Romans 8: Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you[a] free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.​

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If you go to Galatians 5 all the way down to 16: you see the acts of the flesh which we are guilty of doing because we have all done something against God in our lives and that is why we need a savior!

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16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​

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19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.​

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22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.​

The word of God is a reference tool that is a gift for people to have today to be encouraged and supported in faith by looking and reading and learning about God and the Lord Yeshua.

You have a right to your own opinions when it comes to the other two segments you quoted.

Thank you for your question. Hope this helps understand crossnote.

 

[crossnote]

Rather have the Lord Yeshua Christ the Anointed One Son of God of Nazareth or the (Lord God Almighty) or God our Father as the authority in my life over my faith and practice. Not any men.

Jesus Christ is the one who sets us free.

But how would we know the true Gospel and thus the true Jesus without God's written Word?
We would be slaves to superstitions, shamans, popes and traditions of men as we see in places where the Gospel hasn't reached and in this country where it is being, suppressed, diluted and watered down.

Even in Paul's day, the Gospel was being perverted unto damnation and it took a Letter from Paul to straighten things out...

Galatians 1:6-9 (KJV) I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[MatthewG]

Sir Crossnote. From the bible, everyone in this world especially in America can find a bible some where. They can read it, they may not see everything clearly at first, but they can see the Lord Jesus Christ and what he had done for so many people with all of his healings.

Are you not listening - The bible is a gift for us (though men and women print it for us) from God.

The bible has the same message in it. The Lord Jesus Christ came down, died, was risen again by God if you believe this in your heart you shall be saved. There is more to it than this, but most people can get the jist from anyone who shares that message.

The gospel is about the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ Jesus friend. (1 Corinthians 2:2; Romans 6:5-9; Romans 1:16)

Romans 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.

You are using scripture from Galatians - Crossnote - what is the Gospel that was preached to you?



If there are others here who believe they have to fight the world system, and how people teach and everything like this maybe in cult like ways... not sure really what to tell you.

All I know is that, my hope is for all people to come the knowledge of the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ for it is God's desire, he also desires not to let any perish.

So if you have a loved one that doesn't know Christ Jesus who came, died, and was risen again my heart goes out to you. Maybe they just choose to not care... do not know your situation but keep praying for all the people you know in your life and ask God to help them, and ask him to make a way for Him to be known in their life.​

God is the authority, and he is very capable more than us men are: though he has given us the gift of the bible and the gospel that can be most assuredly shared with others if they are willing to listen and read the word of God together and ponder the great wonderances and miracles and love of God and Christ Jesus.

 

[crossnote]

Sir Crossnote. From the bible, everyone in this world especially in America can find a bible some where. They can read it, they may not see everything clearly at first, but they can see the Lord Jesus Christ and what he had done for so many people with all of his healings.

Are you not listening - The bible is a gift for us (though men and women print it for us) from God.

The bible has the same message in it. The Lord Jesus Christ came down, died, was risen again by God if you believe this in your heart you shall be saved. There is more to it than this, but most people can get the jist from anyone who shares that message.

The gospel is about the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Christ Jesus friend. (1 Corinthians 2:2; Romans 6:5-9; Romans 1:16)

Romans 1: 16 For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes—the Jew first and also the Gentile.

You are using scripture from Galatians - Crossnote - what is the Gospel that was preached to you?

Matthew, You challenged Sola Scriptura back on post# 90 even using Galatians as a proof text.

The danger of the phrase 'sola scriptura' or making scripture the ultimate authority is still like that of using a sword to place to the neck of people. As if to say if you do not do what this scripture is saying, you are going to be hurt and bleed because of it.

It like that bondage and tying someone up and making them submit. Forcefulness is not a true form of love yet a stripping of freedom - that is available in the Lord Jesus Christ (Galatians 5:1)

I was just showing how discarding the Scriptures as our final authority can lead into serious error.
In Galatians, Paul was dealing with a serious error of 'adding to' the Gospel; an error that continues down through history but an error that would be reduced if Sola Scriptura was embraced by more.

You asked, "What is the Gospel that was preached to you?".
The same that Paul preached...

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (KJV) Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, crossnote.

I do not care about sola scriptura. God is the authority and Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

However you bring up a great point in this conversation amongst between me and you.

If you already know the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ, and you are set firmly in the faith of God and His Son, how hard is it going to be for anyone to take you out of that truth of Christ?

Will you be able to discern when someone is telling you something else that is actually not true when it comes to the Gospel of Christ?

Let say if - for example - Crossnote, you know Jesus Christ was simply a man nothing more than that, he died on the cross but he did not rise again. You would know right away, that something is wrong here.

Then you can ask questions, and ask if you can show references from the bible about did you know that Jesus Christ was the Lord, and God was with us through Him? Then show those scriptures for support.

Right? So in this conjecture of - trying to use scripture as authority - really if you have the holy spirit and already a believer in God and the Lord Jesus Christ you are already going to be set in the truth of God, and His Son.

Now being head knowledge about everything shouldn't rule out the acceptance of others and their free will.

This is the thing, Say a person who says ah do not really care to learn, what I know is enough.

What choice is there to do? There are two - You can condemn the person, and bring out a switch blade and slice his neck by killing him with the scriptures and being rude.

Or you can suffer on part of Christ Jesus, by saying okay, that is fine, and show humility and love.

That was a very great and excellent point from you crossnote. Thank you so much!

 

[crossnote]

Yes, crossnote.

I do not care about sola scriptura. God is the authority and Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith.

However you bring up a great point in this conversation amongst between me and you.

If you already know the truth about the Lord Jesus Christ, and you are set firmly in the faith of God and His Son, how hard is it going to be for anyone to take you out of that truth of Christ?

Will you be able to discern when someone is telling you something else that is actually not true when it comes to the Gospel of Christ?

Let say if - for example - Crossnote, you know Jesus Christ was simply a man nothing more than that, he died on the cross but he did not rise again. You would know right away, that something is wrong here.

Then you can ask questions, and ask if you can show references from the bible about did you know that Jesus Christ was the Lord, and God was with us through Him? Then show those scriptures for support.

Right? So in this conjecture of - trying to use scripture as authority - really if you have the holy spirit and already a believer in God and the Lord Jesus Christ you are already going to be set in the truth of God, and His Son.

Now being head knowledge about everything shouldn't rule out the acceptance of others and their free will.

This is the thing, Say a person who says ah do not really care to learn, what I know is enough.

What choice is there to do? There are two - You can condemn the person, and bring out a switch blade and slice his neck by killing him with the scriptures and being rude.

Or you can suffer on part of Christ Jesus, by saying okay, that is fine, and show humility and love.

That was a very great and excellent point from you crossnote. Thank you so much!

MG, before we carry this conversation on ad nauseum, ad infinitum, would you please answer this question I asked earlier? (it will help cut through a lot of this theological rubble of ours)...

Would you rather have the State, Rome, a cult leader, yourself or would you rather have God's Word as the ultimate authority pertaining to faith and practice?

 

[MatthewG]

Yes, sir.

Would rather have the spirit of God correct me when am in the wrong about my own decisions in life.
Would rather be chastised by our Father in heaven, crossnote.

 

[crossnote]

Yes, sir.

Would rather have the spirit of God correct me when am in the wrong about my own decisions in life.
Would rather be chastised by our Father in heaven, crossnote.

That did not answer my question. Without God's Word being the supreme authority, who is to say who the Spirit is, which God and who the Father is. It all would be a free for all.
Again, I ask...

Would you rather have the State, Rome, a cult leader, yourself or would you rather have God's Word as the ultimate authority pertaining to faith and practice?