Was The Flood Story Copied From Babylonia?

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RiverJordan

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I never said they were .. the sea salt was the issue ..
But it doesn't match up with a global flood. At all.

and you think the world looks the same post flood as it did prior ..
elevations above and below sea level were created ..
??????? Are you claiming that the earth was entirely smooth before the flood? Every single mountain was post-flood?

I can show MANY c14 dates that are way off .. because carbon also is the issue ..
Ok, you need to make up your mind. If you don't accept C14 dating as accurate, then don't cite it when you think it suits you.

look harder .. there were 8 people ..
3 sons and 3 wives ..
and their wives would not have been proto-semetic ..
I'm talking about all the animals on earth that were killed in the flood. According to the global flood story, every species alive today should show unmistakable signs of a severe genetic bottleneck (down to 2 or 7 individuals), all at the same time. Yet not one single genome we've sequenced shows anything of the sort. Why not?

Finally, please provide a citation for you claims that Egyptian history shows a clear, long break around 4,400 years ago, followed by a new history that is different than the pre-flood history.
 

RiverJordan

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Ok guys, things are flying pretty fast here and a lot of topics are now being cross-posted.

Ixoye, you claimed that the science supports a global flood, so that's what I'm focusing on with you. Let's stay on topic, discuss one thing at a time, and respectfully respond to each other's posts. As I said, you don't need to flood the thread (HAH! See what I did there?) with posts that cover all sorts of subjects.
 
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But it doesn't match up with a global flood. At all.

how so ????

??????? Are you claiming that the earth was entirely smooth before the flood? Every single mountain was post-flood?

pretty much ..

Ok, you need to make up your mind. If you don't accept C14 dating as accurate, then don't cite it when you think it suits you.

I cite c14 post flood .. meaning that which was not affected by a flood ..

I'm talking about all the animals on earth that were killed in the flood. According to the global flood story, every species alive today should show unmistakable signs of a severe genetic bottleneck (down to 2 or 7 individuals), all at the same time.

not so .. they would have diversified at that point ..

Yet not one single genome we've sequenced shows anything of the sort. Why not?

read the above .. as well as I doubt you have any data that shows otherwise ..

Finally, please provide a citation for you claims that Egyptian history shows a clear, long break around 4,400 years ago, followed by a new history that is different than the pre-flood history.

that's simple .. the pyramids themselves ..
pyramid building ceased ..
 
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Does it matter? Do you think the validity of Christ's point (no one knows when the end times will happen) hinges on whether Noah's flood story was borrowed from Babylon? SNIP
Since Jesus was teaching His disciples and answering their questions without resorting to a parable, yes it does matter.
Since Jesus and His disciples were on the same page as far as the sacredness and authority of Scripture, there was no need to resort to fabricated imagery to tell the plain and simple truth. It is more plausable that He would simply draw from an excepted truth and apply the lessons to be learned from that truth to a new and future truth of a similar nature. Similar both in wide spread destruction and in human complacency.
 

RiverJordan

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Let me ask you again: did the writers of the Bible (the Word) get their sources in God or from the ideas of men?
I fully agree with you that they were inspired by God. But "inspired" isn't the same as "dictated by", is it? As I said before, I think it's silly to think that absolutely no cultural, political, or other human influences ever found their way into any of the Bible during its writing, assembly, translation, etc.

Was God their inspiration or were the myths and ideas of men? It is a life and death issue.
See above. It's not an all or none question.
 
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what I believe happened .. I see LOTS of evidence for ..
that being a super major meteorite shower .. I mean HUGE meteors .. they did super catastrophic damage .. ruptured the "waters of the deep" and created the oceans of today ..
some of these meteor holes are 5 miles big .. on every continent and under every sea .. Ive mapped them and they are dispersed very well as if they happened all at the same time .. we also have the wooly mammoths frozen and such .. in a standing position with food undigested and most had dirt in their lungs and showed signs of suffixation .. they c14 dated them to about 2400 bce ..
 
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Frozen Mammoths General Description

What Is Found. Since 1800, at least 11 scientific expeditions have excavated fleshy remains of extinct mammoths.9 Most fleshy remains were buried in the permafrost of northern Siberia, inside the Arctic Circle. The remains of six mammoths have been found in Alaska. Only a few complete carcasses have been discovered. Usually, wild animals had eaten the exposed parts before scientists arrived.

If we look in the same region for frozen soft tissue of other animals, we learn that several rhinoceroses have been found, some remarkably preserved. (Table 8 on page 253 summarizes 57 reported mammoth and rhinoceros discoveries.) Other fleshy remains come from a horse,10 a young musk ox,11 a wolverine,12 voles,13 squirrels, a bison,14 a rabbit, and a lynx.15

Table 8. Reports of Frozen Mammoths and Rhinoceroses
(description pertains to mammoths unless stated otherwise.)

# ..... Date ..... Name ........... Description ................................................................. Referencece
1 ..... 1693 ..... Ides ........... frozen head and lege ........................................................ Ides, 25–27
2 ..... 1723 ..... Messerschmidt .. frozen head and big pieces of skin with long hair ........................... Breyne, 138
3 ..... 1739 ..... Laptev ......... several rhinoceros heads .................................................... T, 22
4 ..... 1771 ..... Pallas ......... complete rhinoceros; suffocated; hairy head and two feet recovered .......... Eden;17 H, 44, 82, 184
5 ..... 1787 ..... Sarychev ....... complete when first seen; upright ........................................... H, 82–83; T, 23
6 ..... 1800 ..... Potapov ........ on the shores of the Polar Sea; skin and hair recovered ..................... T, 25
7 ..... 1805 ..... Adams .......... complete when first seen; 70 year old male; upright ......................... T, 23–25; H, 83–85
8 ..... 1839 ..... Trofimov ....... complete; in a river bank; hair, bones, pieces of flesh and brain recovered . H, 85; T, 26
9 ..... 1843 ..... Middendorff .... half-grown mammoth; most of the flesh had decayed, eyeball recovered ........ H, 85–86; Eden, 104
10 .... 1845 ..... Khitrof ........ well preserved when found; food between teeth ............................... H, 86
11 .... 1846 ..... Benkendorf ..... complete; upright; see page ................................................. HD, 32–38; D, 97–103
12 .... 1847 ..... Goodridge ...... AK; a skull with a quantity of hair ......................................... Maddren, 18
13 .... 1854 ..... Khitrovo ....... foot covered with hair; from a mammoth in good condition .................... T, 27
14 .... 1858 ..... Vilui .......... rhinoceros; complete skeleton with some ligaments ........................... T, 27
15 .... 1860 ..... Boyarski ....... upright; in the face of an island’s coastal cliff ........................... T, 32
16 .... 1861 ..... Golubef ........ a huge beast covered with skin; in a river bank ............................. H, 86
17 .... 1864 ..... Schmidt-1 ...... PC; only skin and hair recovered a year later ............................... T, 28; D, 108–110
18 .... 1865 ..... Koschkarof ..... PC; largely decomposed a year later ......................................... H, 86–87
19 .... 1866 ..... Schmidt-2 ...... recovered on a lake shore; bones and hair of various lengths ................ T, 28; P, 8
20 .... 1866 ..... Kolesov ........ large mammoth or rhinoceros, covered with skin .............................. T, 27
21 .... 1866 ..... Bunge-1 ........ pieces of skin and plenty of hair ........................................... T, 32
22 .... 1869 ..... Von Maydell-1 .. PC; upright; three years later, only a large hairy hide recovered ........... D, 80–95; H, 87–89
23 .... 1869 ..... Von Maydell-2 .. PC; only two legs found a year later ........................................ D, 80–95; H, 87–89
24 .... 1870 ..... Von Maydell-3 .. PC; only a leg was recovered three years later .............................. D, 80–95; H, 87–89
25 .... 1876 ..... Nordenskiold ... inch-thick hide near skull of a musk sheep .................................. Nordenskiold, 310; H, 89
26 .... 1877 ..... Von Schrenck ... complete rhinoceros; the head was thoroughly studied; apparent suffocation .. H, 89; T, 30–31
27 .... 1879 ..... Bunge-2 ........ tusks chopped off; reported to authorities four years later ................. T, 31
28 .... 1884 ..... Bunge-3 ........ PC; first seen by natives 27 years earlier; 2 inch thick skin claimed ..... T, 16, 31
29 .... 1886 ..... Toll-1 ......... 23 years after natives’ discovery, a few soft parts and hair were recovered . T, 32
30 .... 1889 ..... Burimovitch .... reportedly complete; Toll’s bad health prevented him from reaching the site . T, 33
31 .... 1893 ..... Toll-2 ......... damaged bones, hairy skin, and other hair ................................... T, 33
32 .... 1894 ..... Dall ........... AK; disintegrated muscle tissue, bones, and 300 pounds of fat ............... Dall, 19
33 .... 1901 ..... Pfizenmayer .... rhinoceros; a few fragments of ligaments and other soft parts ............... P, 53–54; T, 35
34 .... 1901 ..... Berezovka ...... almost complete; upright; late summer death ................................. HE, 611–625; D, 111–136
35 .... 1902 ..... Brusnev ........ hair recovered, mixed with mud .............................................. T, 36
36 .... 1908 ..... Quackenbush .... AK; pieces of flesh; tendons, skin, tail, and hair recovered ................ A, 299; Q, 107–113
37 .... 1908 ..... Vollosovitch-1 . small female; pieces scattered; died at end of summer ....................... P, 146–164; D, 211–212
38 .... 1910 ..... Vollosovitch-2 . late summer death; well-preserved eye, four legs, trunk, food in stomach .... P, 241–246; T, 37–38
39 .... 1910 ..... Soloviev ....... PC; young mammoth; reported to but not pursued by scientists ................ T, 39
40 .... 1913 ..... Goltchika ...... PC; "dogs and foxes got at it and ate pretty well all the lot” .............. T, 38; D, 212
41 .... 1915 ..... Transehe ....... PC; found in 30- to 50 foot cliff on the Arctic Ocean; never excavated ...... T, 39; Transehe 20
42 .... 1922 ..... Kara ........... carcass reported to scientists, only hard parts remained four years later ... T, 39–40
43 .... 1923 ..... Andrews ........ ivory traders sold skull still containing ligaments to British museum ....... T, 39
44 .... 1924 ..... Middle Kolyma .. scrap of trunk remained; no record of original discovery .................... VT, 19; G, 26
45 .... 1948 ..... Fairbanks Creek . AK; 200-pound, 6 month old; head, trunk, and one leg ....................... A, 299–300; G, 38–41
46 .... 1949 ..... Taimir ......... 50-year-old male; tendons, hair, and an almost complete skeleton ............ VT, 20; Lister and Bahl21
47 .... 1960 ..... Chekurov ....... carcass of a young female; very small tusks, hair ........................... Vinogradov22
48 .... 1970 ..... Berelekh ....... cemetery of at least 156 mammoths; minor hair and flesh remains ............. U, 134–148; S, 66–68
49 .... 1971 ..... Terektyakh ..... pieces of muscle, ligament, and skin; some around head ...................... S, 67
50 .... 1972 ..... Shandrin ....... old; 550 pounds of internal organs and food preserved ....................... U, 67–80; G, 27–29
51 .... 1972 ..... Churapachi ..... old rhinoceros, probably a female; lower legs were in fair condition ........ G, 34–37
52 .... 1977 ..... Dima ........... complete; 6-8 month old male ............................................. G, 7–24; U, 40–67
53 .... 1978 ..... Khatanga ....... 55-60 year old male; left ear, two feet; trunk in pieces .................... U, 30–40; G, 24–27
54 .... 1979 ..... Yuribei ........ 12 year old female; green-yellow grass in stomach; hind quarters preserved .. U, 12–13, 108–134; VT, 22
55 .... 1983 ..... Colorado Creek . AK; two males; bones, hair, and gut contents recovered ...................... Thorson and Guthrie 23
56 .... 1988 ..... Mascha ......... 3-4 month old female; complete except for trunk, tail, and left ear; found in the Yamal Peninsula . LB, 46–47; VT, 25
57 .... 1999 ..... Jarkov ......... fragments of a 47 year old male; removed in a 23 ton block of permafrost by helicopter . Stone24

Some references in the right column are abbreviated:
A=Anthony, D=Digby, G=Guthrie, H=Howorth, HD=Hornaday, HE=Hertz, LB=Lister and Bahl, P=Pfizenmayer, Q=Quackenbush, S=Stewart, 1977, T=Tolmachoff, U=Ukraintseva, VT=Vereshchagin and Tikhonov. Page numbers follow each abbreviation. See endnotes for complete citation. Other abbreviations are AK=found in Alaska, PC=possibly complete when first seen, RCY=radiocarbon years (most radiocarbon ages are from VT: 17–25).

Footnotes: a. Usually the year of excavation. First sighting often occurred earlier. b. The name given is usually the discoverer’s, a prominent person involved in reporting the discovery, or a geographical name such as that of a river.
c. No more than the two best references are given. The more complete reference is listed first. d. An approximate date. e. Referred to other carcasses but details are lacking.

If we now look for the bones and ivory of mammoths, not just preserved flesh, the number of discoveries becomes enormous, especially in Siberia and Alaska. Nikolai Vereshchagin, Chairman of the Russian Academy of Science’s Committee for the Study of Mammoths, estimated that more than half a million tons of mammoth tusks were buried along a 600-mile stretch of the Arctic coast.16 Because the typical tusk weighs 100 pounds, this implies that about 5 million mammoths lived in this small region. Even if this estimate is high or represents thousands of years of accumulation, we can see that large herds of mammoths must have thrived along what is now the Arctic coast. Mammoth bones and ivory are also found in Europe, North and Central Asia, and in North America, as far south as Mexico City.

Dense concentrations of mammoth bones, tusks, and teeth are also found on remote Arctic islands. Obviously, today’s water barriers were not always there. Many have described these mammoth remains as the main substance of the islands.25 What could account for any concentration of bones and ivory on barren islands well inside the Arctic Circle? Also, more than 200 mammoth molars were dredged up along with oysters from the Dogger Bank in the North Sea.26

The northern portions of Europe, Asia, and North America contain bones of many other animals along with those of mammoths. A partial listing includes tiger,27 antelope,28 camel, horse, reindeer, giant beaver, fox, giant bison, giant ox, musk sheep, musk ox, donkey, badger, ibex, woolly rhinoceros, lynx, leopard, wolverine, Arctic hare, lion, elk, giant wolf, ground squirrel, cave hyena, bear, and many types of birds. Friend and foe, as well as young and old, are found together. Carnivores are sometimes buried with herbivores. Were their deaths related? Rarely are animal bones preserved; preservation of so many different types of animal bones suggests a common explanation.

Finally, corings, 100 feet into Siberia’s permafrost, have recovered sediments mixed with ancient DNA of mammoths, bison, horses, other temperate animals, and the lush vegetation they require. Nearer the surface, these types of DNA are absent, but DNA of meager plants able to live there today is present.29 The climate must have suddenly and permanently changed to what it is today.

Mammoth Characteristics and Environment. The common misconception that mammoths lived in areas of extreme cold comes primarily from popular drawings of mammoths living comfortably in snowy, Arctic regions. The artists, in turn, were influenced by earlier opinions based on the mammoth’s hairy coat, thick skin, and a 3.5-inch layer of fat under the skin. However, animals with these characteristics do not necessarily live in cold climates. Let’s examine these characteristics more closely.
 
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Evidence Requiring an Explanation

Summarized below are the hard-to-explain details which any satisfactory theory for the frozen mammoths should explain.

Abundant Food. A typical wild elephant requires about 330 pounds of food per day. Therefore, vast quantities of food were needed to support the estimated 5,000,000 mammoths that lived in just a small portion of northern Siberia. Adams’ mammoth, discovered in 1799, “was so fat ... that its belly hung below its knees.”109 How was abundant food available inside the Arctic Circle, especially during winter months when the Sun rarely shines?

Warm Climate. Abundant food requires a temperate climate, much warmer than northern Siberia today—or during the Ice Age. Little of the food found in Berezovka’s mouth and stomach grows near the Arctic Circle today. Furthermore, the flower fragments in its stomach show that it died during warm weather. Despite the popular misconception, the mammoth was a temperate—not an Arctic—animal.

Away From Rivers. Although most frozen remains are found along river banks where excavations naturally occur, some frozen remains are found far from rivers.

Yedomas and Loess. Frozen mammoths are frequently found in yedomas and loess. What accounts for this and the strange properties of yedomas and loess? What is the source of so much loess?

Elevated Burials. Mammoth and rhinoceros bodies are often found on the highest levels of generally flat, low plateaus.110 Examples include dense concentrations of mammoth and rhinoceros remains in yedomas and the interior of Arctic islands. Dima was discovered in a mountainous region.

Multi-Continental. Soft parts of large animals have been preserved over a 3,000-mile-wide zone involving three continents (Asia, Europe, and North America). It is unlikely that so many unrelated local events would produce such similar results over such a broad geographical area.

Rock Ice. Strange, granular, Type 3 ice containing clay, sand, and a large volume of air pockets is sometimes found near frozen mammoths. [See Table 10 on page 264.]

Frozen Muck. Mammoth carcasses are almost exclusively encased in frozen muck.111 Also buried in muck are huge deposits of trees and other animal and vegetable matter. The origin of muck is a mystery.

Sudden Freezing. Some frozen mammoths and rhinoceroses had food preserved in their mouths, stomachs, or intestines.112

Suffocation. At least three mammoths and two rhinoceroses suffocated. No other cause of death has been established for the remaining frozen giants.

Dirty Lungs. Dima’s respiratory and digestive tract contained silt, clay, and small particles of gravel. Just before he died, Dima breathed air and/or ate food containing such matter.

Peppered Tusks. Why, over wide geographical areas, did millimeter-size particles (rich in iron and nickel) become embedded in one side of some mammoth tusks?

-150°F. Temperatures surrounding some mammoths must have plunged below -150°F.

Large Animals. Most frozen remains are from the larger, stronger animals such as mammoths and rhinoceroses.

Summer-Fall Death. Vegetation in the stomachs and intestines of preserved mammoths implies that they died in late summer or early fall,114 perhaps in August115 or even late July.116

Animal Mixes. Bones of many types of animals, friends and foes, are frequently found near the mammoths.

Upright. Several frozen mammoths, and even mammoth skeletons,117 were found upright. Despite this posture, the Berezovka mammoth had a broken pelvis and shoulder blade, and a crushed leg. Surprisingly, he was not lying on his side in a position of agony.

Vertical Compression. Berezovka’s crushed leg bone and horizontally flattened penis show severe vertical compression before or soon after death. Dima was also compressed and flattened.

Eighteen pieces of the problem are now before us. Fitting this centuries-old jigsaw puzzle together will be our final task. As you will see, clever and imaginative proposals have been made, but most address only a few pieces of the puzzle.
 

RiverJordan

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how so ????
As I pointed out, 400 ft above sea level isn't high enough to even flood the immediate area, let alone the entire planet.

Now, you're arguing that the entire earth was smooth and all mountains and other elevational features are post-flood. I wonder if you realize exactly what that means? That requires every mountain of volcanic origin to have formed over the last 4,400 years, as well as every mountain of tectonic origin. Do you have any idea what that means geologically and thermodynamically? In simple terms, that requires so much energy to accomplish in such a short amount of time, that it would boil the oceans away and make the earth entirely uninhabitable. Just the energy to move one plate to account for going from "no mountains" to the Himalayas in a mere 4,000 years is enough to decimate the entire earth.

not so .. they would have diversified at that point ..
I don't think you understand my point. Bottleneck events, even those down to a few thousand individuals, leave unmistakable genetic traces in a population's genome. Those traces are evident genetically long after they occur. So if every animal species underwent the most extreme bottleneck event possible (2 individuals) all at the same time, when we sequence their genomes we should see evidence of that. And since that event was so severe and so recent, it would be unmistakable.

Yet such a thing is never apparent. At all.

Arguing that "they would have diversified" is rather ridiculous. Let's say you have a diploid organism (it has 2 sets of chromosomes). If you reduce its population down to 2 individuals, obviously the maximum amount of diversity at any given gene they can have is 4 alleles (forms of genes). That means from then to now, they would have to evolve new genetic information at a pace sufficient to account for the diversity in that population today. Is a hyper-evolution argument really what you want to make here?

read the above .. as well as I doubt you have any data that shows otherwise ..
No, you're claiming that all these populations underwent a severe genetic bottleneck 4,400 years ago. It falls on you to provide the data to support that claim.

that's simple .. the pyramids themselves ..
pyramid building ceased ..
????? That doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. You're saying that unless a people continuously build monuments, that means they don't exist? Er...um....:confused:

And once again, will you please stop flooding the thread with new subjects? It's starting to look deliberate and not at all in good faith.
 

RiverJordan

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Since Jesus was teaching His disciples and answering their questions without resorting to a parable, yes it does matter.
Since Jesus and His disciples were on the same page as far as the sacredness and authority of Scripture, there was no need to resort to fabricated imagery to tell the plain and simple truth. It is more plausable that He would simply draw from an excepted truth and apply the lessons to be learned from that truth to a new and future truth of a similar nature. Similar both in wide spread destruction and in human complacency.
I see it as Jesus knowing that his audience was familiar with the Noah story and using it to make his point. Whether or not that story is literally 100% true is irrelevant to his point.
 
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Fish Frozen in Underground Ice.

There are some cases of finds of not only dead mammals, but also fishes, unfortunately lost for science. In 1942, during road construction in the Liglikhtakha River valley (the Kolyma Basin) an explosion opened a subterranean lens of transparent ice encasing frozen specimens of some big fishes. Apparently the explosion opened an ancient river channel with representatives of the ancient ichthyological fauna [fish]. The superintendent of construction reported the fishes to be of amazing freshness, and the chunks of meat thrown out by the explosion were eaten by those present.120

The second report comes from M. Huc, a missionary traveler in Tibet in 1846. Sir Charles Lyell, often called the “father of geology,” also quoted this same story in the 11th edition of his Principles of Geology. After many of Huc’s party had frozen to death, survivors pitched their tents on the banks of the Mouroui-Oussou (which lower down becomes the famous Blue River). Huc reported:

At the moment of crossing the Mouroui-Oussou, a singular spectacle presented itself. While yet in our encampment, we had observed at a distance some black shapeless objects ranged in file across the great river. No change either in form or distinctness was apparent as we advanced, nor was it till they were quite close that we recognized in them a troop of the wild oxen. There were more than fifty of them encrusted in the ice. No doubt they had tried to swim across at the moment of congelation [freezing], and had been unable to disengage themselves. Their beautiful heads, surmounted by huge horns, were still above the surface; but their bodies were held fast in the ice, which was so transparent that the position of the imprudent beasts was easily distinguishable; they looked as if still swimming, but the eagles and ravens had pecked out their eyes.126


Frozen Oxen Found in Tibet in 1846.

Any explanation for these strange discoveries must recognize that streams freeze from the top down.127 The ice formed floats and then insulates the warmer liquid water below. The thicker the ice grows, the harder it is for the liquid’s heat to pass up through the ice layer and into the cold air. Freezing a stream fast enough to trap more than fifty upright oxen in the act of swimming across seems impossible, especially because a stream’s velocity varies considerably across its width. Therefore, different parts of the stream should freeze over many days or hours. Freezing a river so fast that large fish are frozen, edible, and underground, defies belief. However, the similarities with the frozen mammoths are so great that these reports may be related. An explanation will follow shortly.
 
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As I pointed out, 400 ft above sea level isn't high enough to even flood the immediate area, let alone the entire planet.
In 1997, scientists said that they may have found an astonishing Fountains of the Deepreservoir of water deep in the earth.
The water they believe they found does not exist in huge underground oceans. The water is tied up in minerals, held there by the tremendous pressures and temperatures deep in the earth. Researchers have shown, for example, that a mineral called wadsleyite – which exists only at temperatures above 1,800 degrees (F) and is found as deep as 400 miles below the earth’s surface – can still hold water.
Scientists have figured that if 60 percent of this layer is wadsleyite, as seismic data indicate, it could contain enough water to fill 10 oceans.
Researchers have also analyzed the amount of this water that is brought to the surface during volcanic eruptions and concluded from their findings that there could be enough water deep in the earth to fill 30 oceans! Because of the way the water is stored, scientists don't expect it to all be released at once.
 
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if you choose to think Jesus read the Torah with a straight faced while laughing to Himself .. that is your prerogative .. I see every time a nay-saying scientists says it's impossible, another scientist shoots them down ..

Jesus is the truth .. if it was not true .. he would have said so ..
 
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JESUS SAID THERE WAS A FLOOD .. DID JESUS LIE ???

Mat 24:38
“For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,
 
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PAUL & PETER SAID THERE WAS A FLOOD .. DID THEY LIE TOO ???

Hbr 11:7
By faith Noah, being warned by God about things not yet seen, in reverence prepared an ark for the salvation of his household, by which he condemned the world, and became an heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

1Pe 3:20
who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.

2Pe 2:5
and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly;
 
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I see it as Jesus knowing that his audience was familiar with the Noah story and using it to make his point. Whether or not that story is literally 100% true is irrelevant to his point.
Well you may see as you wish, you may believe as you wish. I only ask in this matter that you consider His language....
"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man....." If the days of Noah were fable borrowed from Babylon, are you saying that Jesus' promised return is fable too? How can one compare fable with fact?? that doesn't make sense, nor is it good science.
 

RiverJordan

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In 1997, scientists said that they may have found an astonishing Fountains of the Deepreservoir of water deep in the earth.
That's not a "reservoir". That's water bound up in a mineral under extreme heat and pressure. If that water were released in a very short amount of time (say 40 days), it would produce enough energy (heat) to boil off the oceans and atmosphere, and once again render the entire planet uninhabitable. Further, that water is already at its lowest point. If you raise it to flood the earth, then the space it leaves behind needs to be filled with something. What you seem to be arguing is that water was released, the space it left behind was left unfilled, and then the water returned back to those spaces.

That's simply not possible.

It seems we're hitting a pattern here. Every one of your arguments in favor of scientific support for a global flood is met with a physical and/or evidential impossibility that you are unable to resolve. The physics, geology, biology, genetics, archaeology, paleontology...none of it works for a global flood.
 
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RiverJordan

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As for those 18th century Christian geologists...

There's Adam Sedgwick...

As a geologist in the mid-1820s he supported William Buckland's interpretation of certain superficial deposits, particularly loose rocks and gravel, as "diluvium" relating to worldwide floods, and in 1825 he published two papers identifying these as due to a "great irregular inundation" from the "waters of a general deluge", Noah's flood. Sedgwick's subsequent investigations and discussions with continental geologists persuaded him that this was problematic. In early 1827, after spending several weeks in Paris, he visited geological features in the Scottish Highlands with Roderick Murchison. He later wrote "If I have been converted in part from the diluvian theory...it was...by my own gradual improved experience, and by communicating with those about me. Perhaps I may date my change of mind (at least in part) from our journey in the Highlands, where there are so many indications of local diluvial operations.... Humboldt ridiculed [the doctrine] beyond measure when I met him in Paris. Prévost lectured against it." In response to Charles Lyell's 1830 publication promoting uniformitarian geology Sedgwick talked of floods at various dates, then in 1831 he recanted his former belief in Buckland's theory.
Specifically regarding the flood, he stated in 1831 the Geological Society of London.

"Bearing upon this difficult question, there is, I think, one great negative conclusion now incontestably established -- that the vast masses of diluvial gravel, scattered almost over the surface of the earth, do not belong to one violent and transitory period. It was indeed a most unwarranted conclusion, when we assumed the contemporaneity of all the superficial gravel on the earth. We saw the clearest traces of diluvial action, and we had, in our sacred histories, the record of a general deluge. On this double testimony it was, that we gave a unity to a vast succession of phenomena, not one of which we perfectly comprehended, and under the name diluvium, classed them all together.

To seek the light of physical truth by reasoning of this kind, is, in the language of Bacon, to seek the living among the dead, and will ever end in erroneous induction. Our errors were, however, natural, and of the same kind which lead many excellent observers of a former century to refer all the secondary formations of geology to the Noachian deluge. Having been myself a believer, and, to the best of my power, a propagator of what I now regard as a philosophic heresy, and having more than once been quoted for opinions I do not now maintain, I think it right, as one of my last acts before I quit this Chair, thus publicly to read my recantation.

We ought, indeed, to have paused before we first adopted the diluvian theory, and referred all our old superficial gravel to the action of the Mosaic flood."
 

RiverJordan

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Another was the Rev. William Buckland, the first professor of geology at Oxford University. He wrote in 1837 (I highly recommend reading the entire article)...

"Some have attempted to ascribe the formation of all the stratified rocks to the effects of the Mosaic Deluge; an opinion which is irreconcilable with the enormous thickness and almost infinite subdivisions of these strata, and with the numerous and regular successions which they contain of the remains of animals and vegetables, differing more and more widely from existing species, as the strata in which we find them are placed at greater depths. The fact that a large proportion of these remains belong to extinct genera, and almost all of them to extinct species, that lived and multiplied and died on or near the spots where they are now found, shows that the strata in which they occur were deposited slowly and gradually, during long periods of time, and at widely distant intervals."
 

RiverJordan

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Well you may see as you wish, you may believe as you wish. I only ask in this matter that you consider His language....
"For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man....." If the days of Noah were fable borrowed from Babylon, are you saying that Jesus' promised return is fable too? How can one compare fable with fact??
If my younger sister is sad over a lost boyfriend and I say "Remember, Cinderella found her Prince Charming. You will too.", do you think she would honestly think my point was that Cinderella was a true story? Do you think she'd look at me and say that what I said makes no sense?

that doesn't make sense, nor is it good science.
Again, from a scientific perspective, there's zero doubt that there wasn't a global flood 4,000 years ago. As we've seen, every attempt to argue otherwise is met with absurd obstacles and impossibilities.

There's a reason the world's scientists have reached this conclusion for over 200 years, and it's not because they all "hate God", are conspiring, or are under some satanic spell. The simple explanation is....it's what all the information all over the earth shows.
 
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