What’s your views on hell?

[Major]

Good! I’m glad someone does...

to be fair I was kinda jumping into a view that If God is omnipresent then He must be in hell, and the only way I could figure around that was the fact that it was His presence in the form of His judgement/ wrath that was there, and not His Love.
and then I jumped to another paradox....hell can’t be eternal, because I don’t yet know eternity. But again, that’s outside of my perspective, and so I’m stuck in time and space for now and that’s ok I suppose....
Heaven can wait

I would say to you that what you are saying is because we all have "Finite" minds. We think about TODAY and what we are going to prepare for supper.
What are we going to buy the children for Christmas? Is mom and dad coming over today??? Those are all based in the "Present".

Heaven and hell are "Infinite" and are based in the never ending future and right there is the disconnect. We tend to just not be able to fathom the thought and that is when Faith must come in. Either we believe what God said or we "Think" what we know is more acceptable.

 

[Major]

Good! I’m glad someone does...

to be fair I was kinda jumping into a view that If God is omnipresent then He must be in hell, and the only way I could figure around that was the fact that it was His presence in the form of His judgement/ wrath that was there, and not His Love.
and then I jumped to another paradox....hell can’t be eternal, because I don’t yet know eternity. But again, that’s outside of my perspective, and so I’m stuck in time and space for now and that’s ok I suppose....
Heaven can wait

You see, the people in hell have already be judged and found guilty. Hell is actually the Second death which is separation from God.

2 Thessalonians 1:9 (ESV)
" They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might".

Being removed from God's "presence" in hell has more to do with being removed from His favor or being separated from Him in a relational sense. Being in His "presence" in hell, or that the judgment is carried out in His presence, has more to do with physical proximity.

 

[Major]

hades and hell different places, but Kjv had them as same... Hell itself is a holding place, as ultimate state will be the Eternal Lake of Fire.

Agreed.

Hades/Hell has two compartments. One is "Torments" where the spirits of the lost are which eventually becomes the Lake of Fire.

The Second is "Paradise" but is now empty since Jesus took those spirits with Him to heaven when He assended.

 

[YeshuaFan]

Agreed.

Hades/Hell has two compartments. One is "Torments" where the spirits of the lost are which eventually becomes the Lake of Fire.

The Second is "Paradise" but is now empty since Jesus took those spirits with Him to heaven when He assended.

Brought up the part about Hades and Hell, as some have taken from ther Kjv ther mistaken view that jesus went to hell, as attested in Creeds and as word of faith assert!

 

[Major]

Brought up the part about Hades and Hell, as some have taken from ther Kjv ther mistaken view that jesus went to hell, as attested in Creeds and as word of faith assert!

Agreed. They seem to have never heard about "Paradise" and where the theif on the cross went to.

 

[Leo]

If God had an eternal torture plan in place for sinners, then why didn't He tell Adam? Hell is a fate far worse than death. God would have been unjust and unloving to not warn Adam. Why no explanation of consequences beyond death?

Gen 2:16-17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

 

[Major]

If God had an eternal torture plan in place for sinners, then why didn't He tell Adam? Hell is a fate far worse than death. God would have been unjust and unloving to not warn Adam. Why no explanation of consequences beyond death?

Gen 2:16-17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

For the same reason He did not tell him about the church or grace or predestination or a host of other things my friend.

God told Adam and Eve what they needed to know. What He did not tell them they did not need to know.

They had enough knowledge to make an informed choice and failed to do so.

 

[Via dolarossa]

Is Hell is death then?

 

[YeshuaFan]

Is Hell is death then?

Nope, second death is Lake of Fire!

 

[YeshuaFan]

For the same reason He did not tell him about the church or grace or predestination or a host of other things my friend.

God told Adam and Eve what they needed to know. What He did not tell them they did not need to know.

They had enough knowledge to make an informed choice and failed to do so.

Interesting to me that Jesus will reign over paradise here on earth, and yet many will still choose to rebel and follow Satan in end!

 

[Major]

Interesting to me that Jesus will reign over paradise here on earth, and yet many will still choose to rebel and follow Satan in end!

True. That fact actually confirms that the "Sin Nature" never goes away until we die.

After living in Paradis.....Heaven on earth with Jesus in control, after 1000 years, when tempted men do what they always do when tempted.....SIN!

 

[YeshuaFan]

True. That fact actually confirms that the "Sin Nature" never goes away until we die.

After living in Paradis.....Heaven on earth with Jesus in control, after 1000 years, when tempted men do what they always do when tempted.....SIN!

They do not seem to have been glorified people, but will be back to living to extreme age, as in the Genesis Times!

 

[Leo]

Romans 6:23: (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is still no mention of torment as a warning; the only reference is to silence. Death – Life. This gives me
no sense of anything in between. The Old Testament covered the history of mankind from creation to 400 years
before Christ, about a 4,000-year span of time. In those 4,000 years of Bible history, the idea of a burning hell
is simply never addressed. The New Testament covers less than 100 years of history. Is it reasonable to assume
that God withheld such an important eternal "truth" from His creation for 4,000 years?

 

[Via dolarossa]

Regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil... can someone please explain something:
First off, I can fully understand Eve.
What’s wrong with knowledge?
And precisely, what’s wrong with knowing good and evil?
If i didn’t know not to steal, murder and deceive others, because it’s evil, then for all I know I might do it.
Isnt that the sum of Christianity? Not to do these things?

 

[Major]

They do not seem to have been glorified people, but will be back to living to extreme age, as in the Genesis Times!

Correct. There will be HUMAN BEINGS who get saved during the Tribulation and live through it. THEY will marry and produce children and it is those human children we see who rebel against Christ in Revelation 20.

They live in a perfect world where Satan is bound as seen in Rev. 20:4. When he is loosened he temps them and because of the inherent sin nature, they do what all sinners do....SIN!

 

[Major]

Romans 6:23: (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is still no mention of torment as a warning; the only reference is to silence. Death – Life. This gives me
no sense of anything in between. The Old Testament covered the history of mankind from creation to 400 years
before Christ, about a 4,000-year span of time. In those 4,000 years of Bible history, the idea of a burning hell
is simply never addressed. The New Testament covers less than 100 years of history. Is it reasonable to assume
that God withheld such an important eternal "truth" from His creation for 4,000 years?

I am one who believes that the doctrine of hell fully revealed in the NT, and it is entirely in harmony with the revelation in the OT, which teaches that God will have His day in which He eternally expresses His wrath.

Old Testament writers clearly taught that people who rejected the only true God and the Messiah he promised would experience God’s eternal wrath.

Isaiah 66:24..........
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Psalms 110:5.........
"The Lord is at your right hand; he will shatter kings on the day of his wrath".

Daniel 12:2...........
"And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt".

The Old Testament, however, uses the Hebrew word “Sheol.” This is sometimes translated as “hell” in modern Bibles, but it is just as commonly translated as “the grave,” “the pit” in the original Hebrew.

Just as obscure that clear open teaching is on hell in the Old Test. so is the same thing about heaven.

At the same time, Old Testament writers spoke of people enjoying God’s eternal blessings through faith in him.
The writers described heaven in different ways: being at God’s right hand (Psalm 16:11), dwelling in the house of the Lord (Psalm 23:6), being with God in glory (Psalm 73:24), a place of joy (Isaiah 26:19) and the enjoyment of everlasting life (Daniel 12:1-3), for example.

What applies to your thought on the lack of teaching on hell in the Old Test. applies as well to Heaven.

Now does that make either one of them less REAL or valid.

Another thing I was taught longer ago than I can remember is this.....God gave man information in "Portions".

That means God gave man as much as man could grasp and understand as time went by which is why the Bible was 1500 years in being written by over 65 men. If God gave man ALL the information He knew at one time......the heads of men would explode!!!!

 

[Major]

Regarding the tree of knowledge of good and evil... can someone please explain something:
First off, I can fully understand Eve.
What’s wrong with knowledge?
And precisely, what’s wrong with knowing good and evil?
If i didn’t know not to steal, murder and deceive others, because it’s evil, then for all I know I might do it.
Isnt that the sum of Christianity? Not to do these things?

CONTEXT!

God had already told Adam not to eat from this tree.

You see, "when there eyes were opened" (Genesis 3:7), their conscience was activated. Before the Fall they did NOT have a conscience. They were innocent.

Innocence is ignorance of evil, therefor Adam and Eve did not have a conscience.

When "Their eyes were opened" they knew immediately that they were naked. They did not confess, they covered up themselves. because they were not ready to admit their lost condition due to their Disobedience which is SIN!

Adam was already aware that doing so was wrong, and he knew the consequences, yet he chose to join Eve in eating the fruit. When they ate, they were not simply aware of evil; they experienced evil, to the extent that they became evil—sinners by nature.

Adam had everything he needed for a fulfilling life. He did not need to “know” evil, especially when the only way for him to “know” it was to experience it. It should have been enough that God had warned Adam against disobedience. God did not want Adam and Eve to “know” evil in the sense of participating in it. The sin of Adam and Eve was not in attaining knowledge but in rejecting God’s will in favor of their own.

You and me are no different than they were. We are told not to do this and don't do that by our parents, our teachers, our friends and yes even ROAD SIGNS.

But do you always drive at the speed limit??????

Do you know anyone who has never, ever lied on his income taxes.????

Do you know anyone who has never used God's name in vain????

See what I mean. We are TOLD, we KNOW and yet we still do the SIN! WHY..............Because we are SINNERS by nature!

 

[Major]

Romans 6:23: (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is still no mention of torment as a warning; the only reference is to silence. Death – Life. This gives me
no sense of anything in between. The Old Testament covered the history of mankind from creation to 400 years
before Christ, about a 4,000-year span of time. In those 4,000 years of Bible history, the idea of a burning hell
is simply never addressed. The New Testament covers less than 100 years of history. Is it reasonable to assume
that God withheld such an important eternal "truth" from His creation for 4,000 years?

Leo.....let me ask you question. You seem to be trying to dismiss the reality of hell by saying that God did not warn man about what could happen.

That is completely your right to do so and I agree with your right.

But.......when you are standing on the side of Interstate 95 and cars are zipping by at 75 to 85 miles an hour.........
Do YOU need a warning sign that says........"Danger-speeding cars will kill you"???

By the way....Something of interest is that in the KJV, ----
“Hell” appears in the text in English Bible Translations in the Old Test: 31 Times. In the New Test: 23 Times = 54 Total
In the New KJV it is 19 Times in the Old and 13 times in the New = 32 total.

The actual math tells us that the word Hell is mentioned more in the Old Test than the New Test.

 

[bobinfaith]

If God had an eternal torture plan in place for sinners, then why didn't He tell Adam? Hell is a fate far worse than death. God would have been unjust and unloving to not warn Adam. Why no explanation of consequences beyond death?

Gen 2:16-17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Romans 6:23: (KJV) For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

There is still no mention of torment as a warning; the only reference is to silence. Death – Life. This gives me
no sense of anything in between. The Old Testament covered the history of mankind from creation to 400 years
before Christ, about a 4,000-year span of time. In those 4,000 years of Bible history, the idea of a burning hell
is simply never addressed. The New Testament covers less than 100 years of history. Is it reasonable to assume
that God withheld such an important eternal "truth" from His creation for 4,000 years?

Leo.....let me ask you question. You seem to be trying to dismiss the reality of hell by saying that God did not warn man about what could happen.

That is completely your right to do so and I agree with your right.

But.......when you are standing on the side of Interstate 95 and cars are zipping by at 75 to 85 miles an hour.........
Do YOU need a warning sign that says........"Danger-speeding cars will kill you"???

By the way....Something of interest is that in the KJV, ----
“Hell” appears in the text in English Bible Translations in the Old Test: 31 Times. In the New Test: 23 Times = 54 Total
In the New KJV it is 19 Times in the Old and 13 times in the New = 32 total.

The actual math tells us that the word Hell is mentioned more in the Old Test than the New Test.

Hello Leo;

Thank you for sharing and keep asking those questions. It made me think in my walk with Christ and red-lighted your comments.

For years I personally had issues with the Pauline Epistles reference Romans 6:23 and felt there were contradictions.

Until years later I read Psalm 73:17, 17 Then I went into your sanctuary, O God, and I finally understood the destiny of the wicked. - NLT

God does actually warn Adam in Genesis 2:17, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” - ESV

If we were to single out each word literally, then we overlook God's warning to us in so many variables of context throughout the OT and NT, which is the sense of anything and everything in between - death for our sin.

We all have been warned by God of our wayward prodigal ways, unfortunately we have to be reminded over and over and over again because, alas, we don't listen.

I shudder just at ONE WARNING but also receive this as a positive. God's repeated warnings of death, hell, sin, wicked, hades, sheol, etc...that is torment enough for me. But the more we understand the variable context of His warnings actually defines His great Love for each of us. He goes beyond the warnings because our God wants each of us to be with Him throughout eternity.

God bless everyone, and Merry Christmas.

 

[Lanolin]

I think God being good and loving Father who warns us of the consequences - if we eat the forbidden fruit, we will die.

He doesn't TEACH us how to be wicked, He just lays it out, if we do this, this is what happens.

When you are a parent and your child wants to know if she or he can jump off a bridge well you gonna warn him/her she might drown or get hurt aren't you! You wouldn't say well, go on then find out for yourself.

I don't think there is anything wrong with knowledge (I'm a curious soul myself and want to know lots of things) - but knowledge in of itself isn't always wisdom, which God wants us to have. If we ask Him, He will give it to us liberally.