To me it seems as if there is more to this. Unless it is just to let us all know what you believe. And if i may....if you believe this, then what in your opinion is the purpose of the Holy Spirit today?
Blessings
What Defines God's Word?
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To me it seems as if there is more to this. Unless it is just to let us all know what you believe. And if i may....if you believe this, then what in your opinion is the purpose of the Holy Spirit today?
Blessings
Yes, Rav! @Anthony L. Rodrigues, if we are to accept the Book of Enoch, et. al. as inspired, then we should also take into consideration the Gospel of Mary, Gospel of Thomas, etc. In the Gospel of Thomas it tells of Jesus as a child; in fact, it states that Jesus kills another child. Does that sound like the Jesus we know in the inspired 66 books of God's Word? No. It contradicts the nature of Christ, therefore cannot possibly fit into a perfect, infallible Word which is God's. When I first came to Christ I was very much into spiritual warfare and the Book of Enoch was a favorite read of mine. The Lord quickly dragged me away from that and got me back on the right path. Honestly, I would steer clear of these other books until you become better anchored in Christ. If you are to read these other books, I would do so for educational purposes only, to better witness to others on the dangers of these other books. I pray that God continue to show you His truth through the 66 inspired books that are God's Word.
There is a scripture that comes to mind here. Luke 6:45
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks.
Some people can not help it for it is whats in there heart most.
Softly it is like beating a dead horse....best to just let it go and move on.
God Bless you my sister
Jim
There is no secret to what I believe sister. We have discussed this issue several times here.
The statement concerning Mark 16:9 to the end of the chapter as not being in all the original manuscripts is a well know fact.
That was not something I made up or anything that I believe but is simply a statement of fact by people a whole lot more informed than me.
As for the rest, I am saying and believe that IF, ..........IF we accept the explanation of the gifts spoken of in those verses, then those are in fact the "Sign Gifts" and when we read the words in those verses they clearly say "To the Eleven".
What you are approaching is the doctrine of Cessationism. It is the view that the “miracle gifts” or "sign gifts" of tongues and healing, drinking poision and raising the dead have ceased—that the end of the apostolic age brought about a cessation of the miracles associated with that age. Most cessationists believe that, while God can and still does perform miracles today, the Holy Spirit no longer uses individuals to perform miraculous signs. Yes, I am one of those people.
1 Corinthians 13:8-10..............
"Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."
Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 12:12 that "The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works." From this statement, we can assume that the amazing works performed by the apostles were a sort of "guarantee" of their authenticity. It is as though God was saying "I'm giving my power to these men so that you will know they are from Me."
I know what kind of can of worms this comment is going to open and it is sad that some will become very agitated and confrontation over this. It is right there in the Scriptures if we choose to see it that signs and wonders were exceptional, not something experienced by all believers. In fact, the apostles and their co-workers are the only individuals who are named as having the ability to do miracles, heal, etc.
Why was this? The Bible was not completed at the time (2 Timothy 3:16-17). The early church did not yet have the full revelation of Scripture. The Scripture was revealed to the apostles – the same apostles who by signs and wonders were proven to be authentic messengers of God. Their gifts of prophecy, knowledge, wisdom and inspiration were now added to the list alongside healing and miracles, and were given in order for the early believers to know God's will and plans. But these "revelatory" gifts, now that the Bible is finished, are obsolete. The Bible is a supernaturally-inspired book, given to the apostles, God's proven messengers. We are commanded not to add to or take away from the Word of God as revealed to the apostles from Deut. 4:2 and Revelation 22:18-19. Because the revelatory gifts have ceased, and the sign gifts were given to give credence to those receiving God's message, it is safe to assume that the sign gifts have also ceased.
It is my opinion that those "sign gifts" were given to the eleven just as the Bible says that they were. According to 1 Corinthians 13:13-14:1, we would do well to “pursue love,” the greatest gift of all. If we are to desire gifts, we should desire to speak forth the Word of God, that all may be edified.
Thanks for asking.
Thanks for asking me this question. Please re-read what I said. I did not say that it was not there neither did I say it should not be there. I said that many Bible scholars have determined that from verse 9 to the end of the chapter is not in many of the originals. That was not MY opinion and was not said to cause any strife or hurt. It was a statement of well known fact my sister.
The Gospel of Mark ends at verse 8 in two of the oldest and most respected manuscripts, the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. As the oldest manuscripts are known to be the most accurate because there were fewer generations of copies from the original autographs (i.e., they are much closer in time to the originals), and the oldest manuscripts do not contain vv. 9-20, we can conclude that these verses were added later by scribes. That is not MY opinion but what is well known and taught in every school of higher learning.
My experience in life and the ministry is not to run from or ignore something we have never heard or challenges our past knowledge. IF we do that we harm the cause of Christ in that we become unteachable. So, NO I do not in any way think that I was used of the Devil to cause any strife. Strife comes from within a person's heart who is already looking for something to be said or done that will cause a problem.
James 4:1
"What causes quarrels and what causes fights among you? Is it not this, that your passions are at war within you."
Then isn't it just as true that there are people who clamor to shut down the thoughts and opinions of others who do not agree with them???? Are they not just as unruly and judgmental in their actions????
Everything God does is never contradictory to His word. .................True!!!
Just because something may not be detailed in the word, doesn't mean God hasn't done it, either.......And that is what opens the door of doing what I want to do!
Nice to see you back with us.
First of all, I think you misunderstood me. Even though the Son is with the Father in heaven, He is also residing within every believer in the person of the Holy Spirit, whom He sent to be in us and with us (John 15:26; Romans 8:9–10). Is that not true????
So what is doing??? Christ is actively working within you and me to shape our character and empower our obedience.
Is that not also true????
Next, Jesus lives to intercede for those who believe in Him (Hebrews 7:25). He makes requests on our behalf and brings our prayers before the Father. I think that you should also know that is true.
Then, we see in 1 John 2:1–2 that Jesus is our Advocate when we sin. Positioned between us and holy God, Christ declares our righteous standing because of His sacrifice and our faith in Him.
What’s more, Christ is preparing a place for us in heaven (John 14:1–3). He is also arranging all the events necessary for His return.
Jesus is busy in heaven carrying out the Father’s will. And we, as His followers, should be doing the same thing. He saved us for the purpose of reflecting His life in our work, attitudes, words, and behavior. We are His body—His eyes, ears, voice, feet, and hands—pointing others to Him. I think that you will accept all of those Biblical truths.
I really do not see how your response answers the question about seeing God.
So why doesn't Jesus appear to everyone then and prove that he is resurrected, just like he appeared to Paul and the people on this site have claimed to have seen and all who agree with them?????
Doesn't that fly in the face of Scriptures which say that God is not a respecter of persons????
Romans 2:11.............
"For God shows no partiality."
If God does appear to someone, is He not showing favoritism to that person?????
Just recently I was accused of wanting to throw out a part of the Scriptures because someone did not agree with me. First of all I do not care if anyone agrees with me or not but Now then, all of you read Romans 2:11 and tell me that you are not doing exactly the same thing. To make possible what you want to believe you are throwing away Romans 2:11!!!!!!!
Isn't it interesting how this works????
Now then, IMO, the reason is that, in the same way that Christ appeared to Paul He wants to do the same to all of us today. That folks would be impartial. The light that Paul saw is the same light that is given to all of us today and the visual sign that we get is basically broken lives being brought back to life and to the understanding that God, all He asks from us is to believe in what He has done to provide and also to believe that His time for withholding the coming and the appearing of His son is that He wishes no man or woman shall perish. When He spoke to the disciples He told them: you have walked with me and seeing me but I tell you today "BLESSED ARE THOSE THAT HAVE NOT SEEN ME AND BELIEVE."
Brother Major, I see Jesus all the time, but not with my physical eyes as they were not designed to see into the realm of the spirit. Our re birthed spirit has all the faculties to do so, for they are spiritual in nature. There is a "crossing" point in every believers life to were they only are seeing through a glass darkly until they become mature in their Christianity to where they begin see more clearly. Peter refers to those who were "baby" Christian, and he told them to desire the sincere "milk" of the Word so that would grow. Speaking to the same group of believers he tells them. You have never Christ, and even now you to do not see him, but you are rejoicing with joy unspeakable, and full of Glory. Then he tells them to gird up the loins of their minds and prepare to experience a revelation of Jesus Christ. They were being prepare to see something they never saw before which is Jesus Christ.
1Pe 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
1Pe 1:13 Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Heb 2:8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
I hear you and agree with you completely brother. However that is not the focus of this conversation which has become whether or not someone has actually, literally seen the Lord Jesus Christ. Someone who has claimed to have seen Jesus Christ then said that what she saw did not NOT have any scares on his body.
Is that Scriptural???? Is that what Thomas said when Jesus told him to put his hand in His side.
Do we once again just simply ignore the Scriptures because we want to believe something so badly we place our wants above the written Word of God. Do we just ignore what we do not like and go on with want we want to accept????
Do you not see how dangerous this kind of thinking can be?
Not true, Major.
I think we have to be definite in our understanding that in 1 Corinthians 13:12, Paul is speaking about a future time, when we'll be taken to be with the Lord. Never while we're in our mortal condition could we see the Lord face to face, or know according as we have been known. Currently, we see through a dim window obscurely, and know partially. What Paul speaks about here is not some transitional point in our Christian pathway - we never cease to be mortal till we've put on immortality, and that will be at the Lord's coming.
We mustn't think that, because we see through a dim window obscurely and know partially, that something for our blessing in the pathway is being withheld from us by God. It'll be wonderfully blessed to see the Lord Jesus face to face, to know as we've been known, but that's a blessing for a future time. Now, in a wilderness scene, one of Christ's rejection and absence, we're kept in humility and dependence on God by the fact that we only know in part, and prophesy in part - that which is perfect hasn't come yet. This is a time of formation and preparation, in view of the time of revelation.
We get this same truth in a collective way in the teaching of the body in Ephesians: "... and *he* has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ; until we all arrive at the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, at the full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Christ; in order that we may be no longer babes, tossed and carried about by every wind of *that* teaching which is in the sleight of men, in unprincipled cunning with a view to systematized error; but, holding the truth in love, we may grow up to him in all things, who is the head, the Christ:..." - Ephesians 4:11-15
Have we all arrived at the full-grown man, the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ? If we had, then the Lord would've come, the work would've been complete. Now, we mustn't take from this passage, as some might, that we have to arrive at the full-grown man (&c) before we cease to be babes. There must be growth in between, and we have to "grow up" - not remaining babes, but not having achieved full growth yet, which is where we are now.
However, there does need to be resolve on our part, we have to actively pursue growth. We have to have done with what belonged to the child. Abiding (presently) in faith, hope and love would be signs of our having become men.
Brother I can see what you are saying, but
Don't you just dislike those buts? A "perfect" man as the five fold ministry is suppose to bring the Church to, does not mean "sinless" perfection, because he that is in us is already perfect. The word "perfect" is not referring to perfection, but to being "mature". Certainly we can become mature in this life. If we read about looking through a glass darkly, it is talking about a young baby Christian who know very little about his Lord, or how to exercise his spiritual senses as the Apostle Paul tells us in the book of Hebrews. Strong "meat" of God's will only be given to those who exercise these senses (Heb 5:14). No Christian when brought to the new birth has any idea there are any such things, and they need to be taught what they have and how to use these new senses that became awakened at birth. Even infants need time to learn to use their hands and feet, and how to focus their eyes. Their parents help them along the way to speed this process up. Spiritual grow is very similar to physical growth.1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
(What is the part, that will be don away? It is when when we become mature in our knowing, and understanding)
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
(Paul now tells us exactly what he is talking about, just encase we are not getting it. Children don't know anything so they are only seeing through a glass darkly, until they become a full grown man, then they will see clearly. The perfect has to do with going from a child to a man!!!)
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
God told Abraham to walk before him and be "perfect". Abraham was not a sinless person, he was sinner, but God was not talking about him to be sinless, but "perfect" in his faith, and understanding. Abraham believed God "perfectly". Walking perfectly has to do with believing God perfectly.
Speaking of Abraham.......
Rom 4:20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Staggering hast to do with walking. Abraham did not stagger at the promises of God but he was strong in faith. God told him to "walk" before him and be "perfect" not immature in his faith which he did. He was "perfect" in his believing which is exactly what the five fold ministry is suppose to be teaching the Church.
S
Softly
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So every single person on this forum is an imposter or crazy if they say they spoke in tongues when baptised/received the Holy Spirit? More importantly you have stated with supporting arguments that NO ONE can receive the Holy Spirit.
That you have taken away from the book by saying Mark 16:9 is not authentic or to be taken seriously as it is in only one testimony and subsequently any elaborate reasonings given to cover this indescretion, discredits you and any argument you put forth, on all accounts in my eyes.
Look for God major.
S
Softly
Guest
He didn't have to be crucified again for me.
He was, as previously mentioned several times, about 10-15% transparent. I knew he was spirit and not a physical flesh and blood man. He stood in front of me as real as you and me. I saw him with my eyes in front of me, as an individual being. It was not my imagination. In fact, I saw him when driving up to my home standing at the end of the driveway about 30 feet away and I was wondering if he would still be there after I parked and took my shopping out of the car. He was, I walked the (approx 30 ft) to stand in front of him. He had a brilliant white halo around his entire being that was about an arm length long, he was about 10inches above the ground and wore a gold crown of thorns and was dressed in white, in what seemed to be one long sheet or cloth.
To be honest I'm bored with this continuing line of argument and attack on my character every single day. I know the truth. There are other things worthy of my time, like people that believe me, believe in gods all mighty power, rather than the convenient condensed version you have acquired, and want the hope it gives them. I am not replying any more to this.
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S
Softly
Guest
I apologise if I don't answer any more condemning posts about myself or posts that marginalise God or Jesus. I can not give this anymore emotional attention, it has caused me great distress. I hope, I truly do, that you find God in your life
Acts 17:27
that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.
Proverbs 8:17
"I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.
Matthew 7:7-8
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Jeremiah 29:13
'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
I have, as mentioned before, lived with spirit all my life, I did NOT know it was the Holy Spirit until AFTER seeing Jesus Christ. I was earnestly looking for the truth, looking for God when I saw Jesus Christ.
God bless all those that seek him, including you too major
Acts 17:27
that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.
Proverbs 8:17
"I love those who love me; And those who diligently seek me will find me.
Matthew 7:7-8
"Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. "For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
Jeremiah 29:13
'You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart.
I have, as mentioned before, lived with spirit all my life, I did NOT know it was the Holy Spirit until AFTER seeing Jesus Christ. I was earnestly looking for the truth, looking for God when I saw Jesus Christ.
God bless all those that seek him, including you too major
1. Nobody who actually believes in God / Creator of all would put Him in a box. Which means you need to stop assuming that with those who disagree with you and try see what they are trying to say.
2. Please try see that God needed Abraham, Moses, Paul, Samson and the others mentioned in scripture for certain feats. If we need to literally see Jesus before we believe today we are mocking the Holy Spirit.
3. Of course God does not change. He has always wanted man to love Him for who He is and not what He can do. God never wanted do miracles for man to cause him to follow Him. But He kind of had no choice with the Jews. They needed rescuing and constant protection. He also needed some to get revelations to complete His word to us. Ie John was chosen out of all the people on the planet at that time to be visited by an angel and have the future revealed. Paul was chosen out of all the people on the planet and taken to heaven. Today....the guy next door has the same experience. It is kind of funny actually. I think people need to be reminded that those who talked with and saw Jesus / saw heaven, were treated badly / died cruel deaths. They did not make millions in book sales and if they did they would not have kept one cent of it for themselves.
4. Doubt has got nothing to do with it. My spiritual eyes are wide open. Thats why I don't need to see Jesus with my 10/20 vision.
5. The Spirit is already being poured out on all men. Miracles that impress our eyes requires only faith of a teeny tiny mustard seed. God would prefer to never reach anyone like that...as long as the Holy Spirit is here. Miracles travel with us as God ordains. The Holy Spirit is a presence with me 24/7. This presence gets more literal / real every day.
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May God give grace to those on both sides of this discussion to bear with one another in love, and may God's perfect will be done in each one of us, for His Name and glory's sake: as we submit ourselves to Him, Who is able to do exceedingly abundantly more than we can ever ask or think.
In the name of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord, and our Head.
Chris
In the name of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord, and our Head.
Chris
that faith and mustard seed is not little faith is all we need.
You are not talking like someone who saw Jesus.
You said that you would not believe if you did not see. That swims 100% against scripture. That is why I object Matt 16:4.
What are you going to tell atheists?
I believe you had a vision. Like me and every other Christian on the planet has had, of Jesus.
You remind me of a good Christian friend I had. When he was first saved he spoke of all his visions as literal events to all at work. It was a blessing to hear them as I understood that they were very real visions, but he was sounding mad to all.
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