Jesus hasn't stopped revealing Himself through the use of visions. You cannot sit there and deny it. The dramatic conversions that take place as a result are more than enough proof that Jesus Himself is at work enlarging His Kingdom in any way He sees fit. We join in with Him in that wonderful endeavour, and we rejoice with Him when one person comes to Him in repentance!
What Defines God's Word?
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Jesus hasn't stopped revealing Himself through the use of visions. You cannot sit there and deny it. The dramatic conversions that take place as a result are more than enough proof that Jesus Himself is at work enlarging His Kingdom in any way He sees fit. We join in with Him in that wonderful endeavour, and we rejoice with Him when one person comes to Him in repentance!
But that is exactly what I am doing my sister!
John 14:25.......
“I have told you this while I’m still with you. However, the helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything. He will remind you of everything that I have ever told you."
But the question still goes unanswered. How does anyone know that it is actually Jesus Christ????
How do you know that any conversion is a lasting one????
The power of God in you.
Mar 16:17-18 KJV And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I am sure that you are aware that from the 9th verse on in Mark 16 is not included in all the manuscripts.
Also notice verse 14.........."Afterward He appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat...............".
That event was also before His assention when He went to heaven and sat down at the right hand of God and is there today as our advocate. I also know that you realize He sent the Holy Spirit to earth because He was not on the earth but in heaven.
I know that is not what you will accept, and that is perfectly fine with me my brother, but it is what I believe.
S
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They know when Jesus Christ decides they will know, not before or after or on demand, the road to Damascus is an example of this. More sensibly you may ask how did they not know it was Jesus??? It was not gods will that they should know but to learn from him first.
As mentioned in previous threads prior to this and subject to warnings of Devils, I have seen visions from the Holy Spirit all my life and have lived in absolute total faith and belief in spirit, the depths of my soul has followed spirit, my rock is solid, and built on a life time of living with the Holy Spirit and not knowing who or what it was, I simply called it 'spirit' and lived by the visions I saw, they were never wrong.
How did I not know it was the Holy Spirit??? It was not gods will that I should know until God wanted me to know.
I am still baffled and don't understand why I wasn't allowed to know before I saw Jesus Christ because it would have been a lot easier and maybe I would have been a bit different in a religious sense because I rejected religion and followed what I now know to be the Holy Spirit instead.
Acts 2:17
I will pour out my spirit on all people.
Have faith major, I know there is a fear of Devils and trickery but never did the devil trick anyone into absolute faith in God and Jesus Christ.
Now you can't accept the word of God...well brother you can't have it both ways. You attack one guy from wanting to talk about the book of Enoch and now you say what we have it too much...You really don't believe the power do you...
I doubt you will, but the Aramaic version has it, the Ethoptic versions have it and more and more evidence is being discovered that the gospels are actually originally written in Hebrew and translated to Greek. Think as you wish, you usually do.
http://www.studytoanswer.net/bibleversions/markend.html
Do you think that Jesus is incapable or powerless to make Himself known without question??
Oh, let's all just throw it out, then.
Hi Jim,
Looking back through this thread, I caught sight of this post of yours, again, and it made me think of (John 20:30, 31).
'And many other signs truly did Jesus
in the presence of His disciples,
which are not written in this book:
But these are written,
that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ,
the Son of God;
and that believing
ye might have life through His name.'
* God desires that we should know Him (Jer. 9:23,24): and the Bible contains the means whereby that knowledge can be received. He desires that none should perish (John 3:16): but that all should come to a knowledge of His saving grace. That knowledge can be found within it's pages.
* I also believe that the written Word, is the sum total of revealed truth. God is silent now: when His silence is finally broken, judgment will have come; and the day of grace will have come to an end.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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S
Softly
Guest
I haven't replied to you because you're trying to provoke me into senselessly defensive actions via an emotionally based attack lacking in sound reason aimed at manipulating myself and promoting doubt in others, non of which interest me. If Jesus didn't tell me to kill myself in Syria why are you?
S
Softly
Guest
I've never said my experience was on par with Moses or Paul. By laughing at me, making fun of me, you are chipping away at the faith others may have in their ability to see Jesus Christ as well as myself, and you're laughing at Jesus Christ, and putting into open doubt your faith in Jesus Christ and his ability to act accordingly to his own will.
I think it is important to ask ourselves why we object to someone seeing Jesus Christ, why does it make us feel uncomfortable and/or threatened within ourselves and how can we deal with these feelings or thoughts in a more productive manner that shows respect towards others and allows us to more effectively assess the situation and ourselves, and see with more objective, rather than subjective, eyes.
We as humans need to feel we know all or at least grasp with a firm grip what we do know of that, which is, ultimately, unknowable.
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I certainly did not say that, but it is what it is and all that needs to be done is goggle Mark 16:9 and there is all kinds of evidence that shows the controversy.
However, if it is then accepted, those gifts that were originally given to the Eleven are a package deal and if a person says they can do one they must be able to do all of them.
You already know the answer to that question my sister so why ask it???
The question would of course have to be.....WHY would He?
Do you think that Satan does not have the power to counterfeit and fool those he wants to deceive by appearing to be an angel of light.
Again......I have asked this question now for about 6 times and so far no one will answer it. How does anyone know that the one standing in front of them is actually Jesus Christ????
II Corinthians 11:13-15.............
"false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness".
Is Satan and his demons actually monstrous in appearance, red all over with hideous grins and with pitchforks in their hands and smelling like smoke? Absolutely not! Just the opposite is the case. They look righteous. They look holy. They look like angels of light. And throughout the nations of the world at this time, Satan has established a whole battery of different religious organizations, churches, mosques, synagogues, shrines, temples, grottos, certain holy mountains, etc., etc. where the authorities who administer them appear to be ministers of righteousness. This was Paul’s experience and teaching. And let me tell you a fact, Satan has not changed his tactics one iota in our day.
Agreed.
Context doesn't fit.
What? Just like the claim that Holy Spirit has stopped His works in and through His people in the way of tongues, healings and other miracles?
Satan is indeed a trickster, but he has nothing on Jesus. When Jesus proves Himself by visions and even visitations to certain people, it is no mistake. The problem is with those who simply doubt. The proof is in the pudding. The changed life and the empowerment of a person to walk by faith. Jesus doesn't do or say anything to people that goes against Him or His character or His word. We test the spirit, and when it comes forth as God, then we cannot refute it...and must not.
I have no qualms with the passage. It's in my bible. It is God's word, nonetheless. There are many passages that are not in ALL manuscripts. Do you tear out portions of your bible when it comes to those according to manuscripts you hold as important over others?
God has it there for His purpose. I accept His purpose.
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I have no such question.
He does and he has done so. But God gives His children discernment to be able to judge what is of Him and what isn't. Not all such experiences people have are of Satan, as you think they all are...which would require NO discernment, correct?
One knows because Holy Spirit is like an A-bomb in power versus the puny devil. We can know beyond a shadow of doubt that God is the giver of these visions.
Of course, there is no limit to what God can do.
At the same time, we must be careful when it comes to visions and the interpretation of visions. We must keep in mind that the Bible is finished, and it tells us everything we need to know. The key truth is that if God were to give a vision, it would agree completely with what He has already revealed in His Word.
Visions should never be given equal or greater authority than the Word of God. God’s Word is our ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice. If you believe you have had a vision and feel that perhaps God gave it to you, prayerfully examine the Word of God and make sure your vision is in agreement with Scripture. Then prayerfully consider what God would have you do in response to the vision.
James 1:5.......
"If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him."
My dear sister. Why are you making it appear that I am the enemy??? I do not remove any Scriptures and attempt to explain them all. I did not say that I had any problems with the passage or that I wanted them removed or that they did not apply.
All I said was that is you accept them then they are a package deal. If you accept one of the gifts you must do so with all of them because that is the way they are presented to the eleven.
I said that "I am sure that you are aware that from the 9th verse on in Mark 16 is not included in all the manuscripts."
Abdicate then accused me of ......."Now you can't accept the word of God".
Why would both of you, well educated and born again say things that I did not say? It has now become a pattern.
What I sated was a commonly known theological fact. I did not say it was my opinion or what I wanted or what I believed. I just stated what is a known fact and all of a sudden because I do not agree with you guys, I am the enemy.
I did not write but again, here it is.........
1 Corinthians 13:8-10...................
"Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away."
My dear sister, I think that you know as well as I do that the "dreamer" or person with a "vision" is sometimes perpetuating a hoax intended to deceive people into following them. They claim their visions or visitations from God gave them special authority to form their new movements and teachings. One of the best examples of that is Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormonism, who claimed God and Jesus appeared to him and told him all the churches on earth were false. He was to form a new church and preach the "restored" gospel. However, the church he formed and its teachings are wholly unbiblical which proves Smith received no visitation from God. God does not contradict Himself.
If you want to believe this visionary ability is valid.......Wonderful for you. I do not and will not and that is pretty much it.
I will see you down the road because there is nothing I can add that will change your mind and the same goes for you to me.
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