What Does Baptism Mean To You

[Ricko1]

It should not be.. but it has been made that by certain groups who "demand" baptism as a work according to the law of works. Baptism is a "work of faith" according to the law of faith. When a group brings it out of faith and suggest that it is a part of system of works, needed for salvation, they have missed the type and picture of baptism. For we had to die with Christ because we could not, through any religious process earn salvation.... completely and without hope is man and his efforts to "earn" salvation.

To clarify this...The Act of being Baptized is not to be compared to " Works". It is simply being Obedient to what Jesus himself ordained..(John 3 v 3 & 5). I would like someone to explain to me their definition of " Works"?!!

I can give you a page of things people do who are Church goers and Believers that are " Works" if that defines anything one doe's in Church

 

[lynn w]

It should not be.. but it has been made that by certain groups who "demand" baptism as a work according to the law of works. Baptism is a "work of faith" according to the law of faith. When a group brings it out of faith and suggest that it is a part of system of works, needed for salvation, they have missed the type and picture of baptism. For we had to die with Christ because we could not, through any religious process earn salvation.... completely and without hope is man and his efforts to "earn" salvation.

I guess I didn't necessarily see that anyone was saying it HAD to be done, rather, as a sign of real faith and of obedience it SHOULD be.
God bless

 

[Ricko1]

No one has suggested that baptism is not obedience, but it is obedience to faith. It is the answer of (from a good conscience) Just as Paul said God did not call him to baptize, but to preach the gospel...it is the gospel that saves and baptism serves the truth of the gospel.

Correct...And Baptism is the Gospel, and so therefore must be done according to The Apostles Doctrine, agreed.

 

[Mitspa]

IN Other words if You Don' t BELIEVE and ARE Not Baptized they shall be DAMNED..In other Un Believers rejecting God' s Word. What is so hard understanding that? You really need to refrain from the name calling it is Un Christian like and Not true about me either.

It does not say "are not baptized" it says "he who believeth not" Try to be honest please..

 

[Mitspa]

I guess I didn't necessarily see that anyone was saying it HAD to be done, rather, as a sign of real faith and of obedience it SHOULD be.
God bless

Well maybe you have not read all the post, or not aware that many in many groups have taken baptism out of faith and made it a dead work...which is the very picture of dying with Christ to dead works.

 

[Mitspa]

Correct...And Baptism is the Gospel, and so therefore must be done according to The Apostles Doctrine, agreed.

Yes according to faith, and obedience to the Spirit not the "letter".
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

There is no legalism in the New Covenant, all obedience is according to the "law of faith" working by love.

 

[Ricko1]

It does not say "are not baptized" it says "he who believeth not" Try to be honest please..

I was explaining what the second part of that verse means:

MarK 16 v 16: Jesus said " He that Believes AND is Baptized shall be SAVED; but HE THAT BELIEVES NOT SHALL BE DAMNED"

So, I stated the second part of this verse just justifies the first part. How else can it be different?
If You BELIEVES and are BAPTIZED you will be Saved equals FAITH AND OBEDIENCE To JESUS ( John 3 v 3 &5)

But if someone ":BELIEVES NOT shall be DAMNED....Correct they don' t want to Believe or be Baptized therefore they will be Damned...I TIMOTHY 3 v 16..Also warns us what happens if you don' t follow the Apostles' Doctrine...

 

[lynn w]

Well maybe you have not read all the post, or not aware that many in many groups have taken baptism out of faith and made it a dead work...which is the very picture of dying with Christ to dead works.

No, I read them all, granted this upwards of 22 pages! I truly didn't see anyone HERE making the claim. I certainly may have missed something in 400+ posts which is why I asked for clarification, that's all.
God bless

 

[Ricko1]

Yes according to faith, and obedience to the Spirit not the "letter".
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

There is no legalism in the New Covenant, all obedience is according to the "law of faith" working by love.

Pitiful...twisting the meaning of that passage so you hold on to traditions of a church teaching rather then what The First Century Church taught...

 

[Mitspa]

I was explaining what the second part of that verse means:

MarK 16 v 16: Jesus said " He that Believes AND is Baptized shall be SAVED; but HE THAT BELIEVES NOT SHALL BE DAMNED"

So, I stated the second part of this verse just justifies the first part. How else can it be different?
If You BELIEVES and are BAPTIZED you will be Saved equals FAITH AND OBEDIENCE To JESUS ( John 3 v 3 &5)

But if someone ":BELIEVES NOT shall be DAMNED....Correct they don' t want to Believe or be Baptized therefore they will be Damned...I TIMOTHY 3 v 16..Also warns us what happens if you don' t follow the Apostles' Doctrine...

As has been pointed out, it does not say that! One is saved by hearing and believing the gospel (as Paul taught it) and baptism is a response to the gospel.. Now it is an act of obedience according to faith, I do not know of any Christian that has been born-again, that is in some way refusing to be baptized? But the scripture do not condemn those who are not baptized, that is mans tradition.

 

[Ricko1]

Pitiful...twisting the meaning of that passage so you hold on to traditions of a church teaching rather then what The First Century Church taught...

You really need to learn your Bible FULLY before trying to justify things..Just sayin'

 

[Abdicate]

To clarify this...The Act of being Baptized is not to be compared to " Works". It is simply being Obedient to what Jesus himself ordained..( v 3 & 5). I would like someone to explain to me their definition of " Works"?!!

I can give you a page of things people do who are Church goers and Believers that are " Works" if that defines anything one doe's in Church

Ok, clarify: if you are not baptized can you go to heaven?

 

[Mitspa]

No, I read them all, granted this upwards of 22 pages! I truly didn't see anyone HERE making the claim. I certainly may have missed something in 400+ posts which is why I asked for clarification, that's all.
God bless

Well, I and others might disagree? I stand firm in what I have posted in response to what is clear to me as being doctrines of error. Blessings and peace to you.

 

[Mitspa]

Pitiful...twisting the meaning of that passage so you hold on to traditions of a church teaching rather then what The First Century Church taught...

"Twisting the meaning" lol Your understanding of the first century church, could be hindered by 12th century traditions and doctrines of men. Paul made it clear, he did not baptize any but just a few. I think Paul understands baptism according to the law of faith, and he is the final word on all sound doctrine.

 

[Ricko1]

As has been pointed out, it does not say that! One is saved by hearing and believing the gospel (as Paul taught it) and baptism is a response to the gospel.. Now it is an act of obedience according to faith, I do not know of any Christian that has been born-again, that is in some way refusing to be baptized? But the scripture do not condemn those who are not baptized, that is mans tradition.

No you are making excuses to show us Baptism is not necessary. Again I ask you this..answer this only...If it is not important to be be Baptized along with the other things one must do to be saved....Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus it must be done
( John 3 v 3 &5) Why did Jesus himself do it for our example ( Matthew 3 verses 13-17)?

Why did Peter say we had to do it Acts 2 v 38...etc etc etc.

I 5th ink it is safe to assume you don' t want to admit you are wrong in your thinking about Mark 16 v 16 and what it says....I just showed you from Scriptural Evidence why you are wrong...I have given you scripture after scripture to prove Jesus and The Apostles were correct in everything they said and wrote..

 

[Ricko1]

"Twisting the meaning" lol Your understanding of the first century church, could be hindered by 12th century traditions and doctrines of men. Paul made it clear, he did not baptize any but just a few. I think Paul understands baptism according to the law of faith, and he is the final word on all sound doctrine.

" Paul Baptized a Few" ...like the former disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19 verses1-7? Paul also said in one verse He spoke in tongues more then you all....In other verse Paul said he would rather speak in his native tongue and not in tongues specifically. That does not mean Paul does not believe in Water Baptism, nor does he not believe in speaking in tongues either if you read the context of his message..

 

[Ricko1]

" Paul Baptized a Few" ...like the former disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19 verses1-7? Paul also said in one verse He spoke in tongues more then you all....In other verse Paul said he would rather speak in his native tongue and not in tongues specifically. That does not mean Paul does not believe in Water Baptism, nor does he not believe in speaking in tongues either if you read the context of his message..

Go study your Bible Bro...you need serious understanding of what the Scriptures actually say and mean...seriously...I will not answer you again..This is frustrating to explain this 75 times ( guessing) and you still trying to prove you are right....Go learn the entire New Testament..make sense and I will converse with you...otherwise Buenos Dios..Arrevederci, and Aloha...and God Bless...

 

[Mitspa]

No you are making excuses to show us Baptism is not necessary. Again I ask you this..answer this only...If it is not important to be be Baptized along with the other things one must do to be saved....Why did Jesus tell Nicodemus it must be done
( John 3 v 3 &5) Why did Jesus himself do it for our example ( Matthew 3 verses 13-17)?

Why did Peter say we had to do it Acts 2 v 38...etc etc etc.

I 5th ink it is safe to assume you don' t want to admit you are wrong in your thinking about Mark 16 v 16 and what it says....I just showed you from Scriptural Evidence why you are wrong...I have given you scripture after scripture to prove Jesus and The Apostles were correct in everything they said and wrote..

"other things" not sure what you are trying to affirm? One is "saved" by faith in Jesus Christ, as the scripture clearly define. "not of works" lest any man should boast. And the "water" is the "Word", baptism only serves as a picture of the Word.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

How do you know what others believe and who God can and cannot save? If you will remember the Lord Himself went to those in these sort of places and save them. But those He hated and those who could not be saved, where the self-righteous and hypocrites.
I had rather be the harlot as His feet, or the woman caught in adultery than those who "think" they have the right to judge others in who can be saved.

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness

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Beloved, who is judging whom? Just read what you have posted. Do you personally know anyone on this forum so that you may say: "That man/woman is just a sinner"? Do you know whether or not whom he Lord has taken "...out of darkness and unto His marvelous light."? But what are we called to judge...is it not righteousness? Do the scriptures overtly speak against repentance...or baptism...or receiving the Holy Spirit?

 

[Mitspa]

" Paul Baptized a Few" ...like the former disciples of John the Baptist in Acts 19 verses1-7? Paul also said in one verse He spoke in tongues more then you all....In other verse Paul said he would rather speak in his native tongue and not in tongues specifically. That does not mean Paul does not believe in Water Baptism, nor does he not believe in speaking in tongues either if you read the context of his message..

What? that don't even make sense! Who does not believe in baptism? According to faith, not works..,.and that is the issue and that is what Paul was teaching, that True Godliness is not in legalism, but obedience from the heart...not the letter...not some set of rules..but what a person believes in their heart.