What Does Baptism Mean To You

[Mitspa]

You can receive The Spirit of God before or after you are water baptized...But if you skip the water Baptism you have disobeyed what it says to do..and God can and will remove his Spirit from so whom he will.

Read in Matthew all those who cast out Devils, did great works etc and God kicked them out at The Final Judgement...read it.

Here is your answer; this warning was written to those who begin (by faith) in the Spirit and grace and return to the flesh and legalism.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you(ye are cutoff-from the vine), whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 

[Mitspa]

I will answer your questions tomorrow morning, I have been working all day...and while I am searching my Bible please tell us how Peter could command Cornelius and his family to be water Baptized when 3 of you are telling me it is not necessary, etc.
Good Night...

No one has said baptism is not needed nor should be sought, but salvation (in the traditional sense) comes by faith, and baptism is obedience to sincere faith.

 

[Intojoy]

Here is your answer; this warning was written to those who begin (by faith) in the Spirit and grace and return to the flesh and legalism.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you(ye are cutoff-from the vine), whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Mitzpa was not a blessing for departure like aloha or shalom. You realize that?

Falling from grace means going back to living under a set of man made rules, or the Moasaic law for sanctification. A believer is already saved and must reckon himself that way.

Baptism is nothing more than identifying one's self with the Messiah's message, person and ministry. We are commanded to be baptized but that's all we are doing when we obey - we are identifying with Christ.

 

[God calls me Olivia]

Water Baptism is part ( Part).of the NT salvation plan...If you don' t do what says..it is like having a car so to speak with only 3 wheels on a 4 wheel car.

Again...WHY did Peter Command Cornelius and family to be Water Baptized if it is not necessary? Of course it is necessary, it was part of the first Peter told The new Converts to do...When they asked this question: " Men and Brethren,,WHAT MUST WE DO?
( v 37) Read the next verse to see exactly what Peter
told them they had to do...

Good morning Ricko1,

The question here is necessary for what? Outward baptism is not necessary for salvation, inward baptism is necessary, for with true inner faith a believer believes that they have died to self through Christ and have been raised to life through him. God asked for things like outward baptism and communion as acknowledgement and identification with true belief as well as remembrance of the belief. Outward baptism is a commitment to acknowledging one's own death and resurrection so that the new believer is now living a life for God and in God. The old person no longer lives, but are a part of Christ. This commitment to God's promise and living in him comes from faith and belief. Peter baptized the already saved Cornelius to have Cornelius acknowledge what he believed (and have a clear understanding of it) and to acknowledge his commitment to his beliefs that he is now dead to himself and alive in Christ.

Paul said of himself, "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel" (1Corinth 1:17). What purpose would there be for Paul to preach the gospel only to leave the believers unsaved if they needed baptism as well.

I could go on but I see Mitspa three responses up wrote a great answer, so I will leave it at that for now, unless you are still unsatisfied and then I will continue with examples, for I know that you want to have clear understanding and want to stand by what you believe is true.

 

[Mitspa]

Mitzpa was not a blessing for departure like aloha or shalom. You realize that?

Falling from grace means going back to living under a set of man made rules, or the Moasaic law for sanctification. A believer is already saved and must reckon himself that way.

Baptism is nothing more than identifying one's self with the Messiah's message, person and ministry. We are commanded to be baptized but that's all we are doing when we obey - we are identifying with Christ.

It is a interesting word "mitspa" or "Mitzpa" and one could find several translations from the Heb. and be correct. I believe the name or word has a special meaning for me.. (neither of those you seem to want to correct me on) but the Hebrew is a interesting tongue that even the Jews do not always agree on. As far as "falling from grace" not sure what point you are making? What is grace is grace, what is works is works, all attempts to justify oneself by any work could hinder the grace of God in a believers life. Those who promote these varied forms of legalism are in fact in danger of the warnings of the scriptures I have used.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Here is your answer; this warning was written to those who begin (by faith) in the Spirit and grace and return to the flesh and legalism.

Ga 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you(ye are cutoff-from the vine), whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Ga 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

_______________________________________

Gal 5:4 __ Written to the Galatians who had received the Holy Spirit through the gosple that saves, because they believed and obeyed the gospel. It was a WARNING! that if they destroyed the true foundation only to rebuild a foundation under the Law (a Law no one could fulfill, but only Jesus), it was their sure destruction. It was not given as an act of condemnation, but to remind and bring back to the fold.
Your fleshly mind is not helping you at all, is it?

 

[Mitspa]

_______________________________________

Gal 5:4 __ Written to the Galatians who had received the Holy Spirit through the gosple that saves, because they believed and obeyed the gospel. It was a WARNING! that if they destroyed the true foundation only to rebuild a foundation under the Law (a Law no one could fulfill, but only Jesus), it was their sure destruction. It was not given as an act of condemnation, but to remind and bring back to the fold.
Your fleshly mind is not helping you at all, is it?

Not sure of your point, or are you just trying to restate what has already been said, using the same words in a different order, so that you might "act" as if you are teaching others? It is a clear warning, against legalism in all its forms. There are also warnings against pride and hypocrisy etc... I suggest that all the warnings of scripture are of great importance, but none are so great as those things that separate the believer from The Grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

Not sure of your point, or are you just trying to restate what has already been said, using the same words in a different order, so that you might "act" as if you are teaching others? It is a clear warning, against legalism in all its forms. There are also warnings against pride and hypocrisy etc... I suggest that all the warnings of scripture are of great importance, but none are so great as those things that separate the believer from The Grace of Jesus Christ.

_____________________________

Gal. 5:4 __ is surely a warning: first against reverting back to the Law, and saying it will save. And even a warning to me: if I would now say that I could be saved by rejecting baptism, and teaching others to do the same. But it would not be a warning to you: for you are not espousing that one should be saved "...by grace through faith...". You are saying that one is only saved by faith through faith!
Enjoy your walk.

 

[aha]

could be saved by rejecting baptism

I think no one is saying here “rejecting”… I think that will be misrepresentation of what one is saying….
With all due respect, seeing your age on your profile : )

I think your point of view of water baptism is different from how Ricko1 explains it.
Ricko1 explains it as that it sounds like legalism: a work need to do

As I understand in your previous post# 286: Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is One… thus, accepting Christ will necessarily will result for one to willingly be baptized : since as I understand, the Holy Spirit is symbolically represented by Water....

I think it remains in accordance with what I know:
Baptism is an act of obedience, obedience is work, work is a manifestation of faith…

In the same manner as I see it: Love is Action. It is ACTIVE.

Jesus Christ teaches us: Do unto others (ACTIVE)
.... while ancient (eastern philosophers) teaches Do not do unto others (PASSIVE)

Action is a manifestation Love.

Jesus Christ birth, death and resurrection is a manifestation of God’s love.

 

[Ricko1]

No one has said baptism is not needed nor should be sought, but salvation (in the traditional sense) comes by faith, and baptism is obedience to sincere faith.

That is exactly what I am saying...Water Baptism in itself will not save anyone. However OBEDIENCE to doing exactly what it says to do is FAITH. To sum it up, you cannot claim you have " FAITH" and leave out this or that because you don' t think it is needed or necessary when scripture says it is..

 

[Abdicate]

Water baptism is just the act of professing one's faith. If it were required for salvation, then Jesus lied on the cross to the thief, which we know He never did. How could the thief on the cross get baptized? Baptism means "keep them under until they bubble" in the Greek (jk)

 

[Ricko1]

That is exactly what I am saying...Water Baptism in itself will not save anyone. However OBEDIENCE to doing exactly what it says to do is FAITH. To sum it up, you cannot claim you have " FAITH" and leave out this or that because you don' t think it is needed or necessary when scripture says it is..

And...No where in the Book of Acts or any other Book in your Bible will you read where anyone was Water Baptized in this manner: " I Now Baptize you In The Name of The Father, and in the Name of the Son, and in the Name of The Holy Ghost".

Unless You find this in your Bible then we can all agree...It Never was actually ever done in the NT First Century Church.

So Please unless you find any verse that shows IT ACTUALLY WAS EVER PERFORMED... Don' t even say anything contradicting this fact..

 

[Ricko1]

Water baptism is just the act of professing one's faith. If it were required for salvation, then Jesus lied on the cross to the thief, which we know He never did. How could the thief on the cross get baptized? Baptism means "keep them under until they bubble" in the Greek (jk)

I have already covered that at least 100 times on here it seems. Water Baptism was issued in as a requirement after Jesus died on Calvary. The Thief died in the OT where Baptism was not required as part of Conversion and beleif..

 

[Abdicate]

I see... so if someone accepts Jesus' gift of salvation on a flight to New York and on the way it crashes and they die, they're not going to heaven because they didn't get baptised? Hmm... I've got a hard time with "new" dispensational laws... it's still a law, which kills.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I think no one is saying here “rejecting”… I think that will be misrepresentation of what one is saying….
With all due respect, seeing your age on your profile : )

I think your point of view of water baptism is different from how Ricko1 explains it.
Ricko1 explains it as that it sounds like legalism: a work need to do

As I understand in your previous post# 286: Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit is One… thus, accepting Christ will necessarily will result for one to willingly be baptized : since as I understand, the Holy Spirit is symbolically represented by Water....

I think it remains in accordance with what I know:
Baptism is an act of obedience, obedience is work, work is a manifestation of faith…

In the same manner as I see it: Love is Action. It is ACTIVE.

Jesus Christ teaches us: Do unto others (ACTIVE)
.... while ancient (eastern philosophers) teaches Do not do unto others (PASSIVE)

Action is a manifestation Love.

Jesus Christ birth, death and resurrection is a manifestation of God’s love.

____________________________________

Ricko1 is attempting to say the same thing as you: but you, I believe, have a better grasp of it.
Yes, Beloved, love is a verb. The Love in/with God stimulated Him to express it: thus we were created for God to express His love in us! And ALL that transpired prior to the creation of man was to do away with the iniquity and sin which God knew was to come: for He allowed it. Why? Because He desired that we should choose the life that was in, and came from Him, more than the life in this temporal bodies.
Enjoy your walk in Him.

 

[Ricko1]

I see... so if someone accepts Jesus' gift of salvation on a flight to New York and on the way it crashes and they die, they're not going to heaven because they didn't get baptised? Hmm... I've got a hard time with "new" dispensational laws... it's still a law, which kills.

In Answer to your question: It is in the hands of The Lord..I cannot or you cannot say it' s a Slam Dunk, The person is IN. Reason it is up to The Lord...He sees their heart you and I and all humanity does not have the ability to such a thing. A Lot of people that think they are " Saved" may not be, but believe they really are.

Please Read: I Timothy 4 : v 16

 

[Abdicate]

I agree, but by you saying that baptism is required for salvation, that is just what you're saying, they're not saved.

 

[Ricko1]

In Answer to your question: It is in the hands of The Lord..I cannot or you cannot say it' s a Slam Dunk, The person is IN. Reason it is up to The Lord...He sees their heart you and I and all humanity does not have the ability to such a thing. A Lot of people that think they are " Saved" may not be, but believe they really are.

Please Read: I Timothy 4 : v 16

We can come up with a thousand ways somebody " Accepts Jesus" and false teachers say they are " Saved". If that was true, then I could walk in a bar and nightclub and ask the Patrons: " Do you believe Jesus died for your sins, and you are saved by acknowledging that"?...and the inebriated patron says " (hic) yes, I believe that"...then I say " Well, Brother you are now saved"...Hog wash..

 

[Ricko1]

Be back around 2pm CST have Church this morning..bye

 

[Ricko1]

One last thing ABDICATE....Being Water Baptized is a requirement along with FAITH, Repentance, and believing in Jesus and his word...It takes ALL of them to be Saved...I Timothy 4 v 16 Paul tells us to OBEY THE DOCTRINE.