What Does Baptism Mean To You

[Brother David]

NOPE.

It was a cleaning act that Jews did as a ritual but it did not save anyone and can not save anyone Dave. The Jews developed a way in which Gentiles could become Jewish. It was one of a number of things inc,..circumcision, a covenant meal, an agreement to obey Jewish law, and a ritual bath.

It was an outward act that showed they were dying to the old life as a Gentile and were being resurrected to the new life of a Jew.

But it did not save them. Baptism is an act of obedience whereby the believer "identifies" with Christ. We believe Christ 1st and then follow in baptism. I recommend for every single person who comes to Christ and is saved BUT getting baptized have nothing to do with being saved or staying saved.

If baptism has nothing to do with salvation then why do it ?
We are saved by the power of Jesus' name administered in baptism following thourough repentance....We still must be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Please show some scripture to confirm this "Outward profession of an inward work" doctrine.
1 Peter 3:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Major]

If baptism has nothing to do with salvation then why do it ?
We are saved by the power of Jesus' name administered in baptism following thourough repentance....We still must be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Please show some scripture to confirm this "Outward profession of an inward work" doctrine.
1 Peter 3:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Obedience!

The Word of God says that we should and so we do but not to be saved.

 

[Brother David]

Obedience!

The Word of God says that we should and so we do but not to be saved.

So, in your estimation of the gospel of Jesus Christ....What is necessary ? Just believing ? Accept/Receive/ Confess/ Aknowledge ?
Please show some scripture to confirm this "Outward profession of an inward work" doctrine.

 

[Ricko1]

So, in your estimation of the gospel of Jesus Christ....What is necessary ? Just believing ? Accept/Receive/ Confess/ Aknowledge ?
Please show some scripture to confirm this "Outward profession of an inward work" doctrine.

Hey Major, wrong again bro. First when The veil ripped from top to bottom in the Jewish temple a a Jesus died on the cross...that did away the old testament dispensation plan..whereby Certain individuals We're saved by God for their faith and trust in him. This Includes the thief Jesus saved on the cross. He died in the OT.
The NT salvation and final dispensation plan started as soon as Jesus died at Calvary.

There is no excuse for any believer to skip over this and expect to make it..

Baptism you say, does not save anyone you say?

Read this: I Peter 3 verses 20 &21: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the
long suffering of God wait ed in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing , when in few, that is, eight souls were SAVED by WATER.

The like figure where unto EVEN BAPTISM DOES ALSO NOW SAVE US.......

 

[Ricko1]

Hey Major, wrong again bro. First when The veil ripped from top to bottom in the Jewish temple a a Jesus died on the cross...that did away the old testament dispensation plan..whereby Certain individuals We're saved by God for their faith and trust in him. This Includes the thief Jesus saved on the cross. He died in the OT.
The NT salvation and final dispensation plan started as soon as Jesus died at Calvary.

There is no excuse for any believer to skip over this and expect to make it..

Baptism you say, does not save anyone you say?

Read this: I Peter 3 verses 20 &21: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the
long suffering of God wait ed in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing , when in few, that is, eight souls were SAVED by WATER.

The like figure where unto EVEN BAPTISM DOES ALSO NOW SAVE US.......

I agree...Water Baptism in itself will save someone IF THEY PASS up Repentance with a true heart fell repentance.

Water Baptism is symbolic of The Death, Burial, and Resurrection Of Jesus and identifies us who do as commanded as his Children..

 

[Ricko1]

Sorry for the Typo...Meant to say " Baptism will not save anyone IF They do not Repent and feel Conviction to do so"

 

[Major]

Hey Major, wrong again bro. First when The veil ripped from top to bottom in the Jewish temple a a Jesus died on the cross...that did away the old testament dispensation plan..whereby Certain individuals We're saved by God for their faith and trust in him. This Includes the thief Jesus saved on the cross. He died in the OT.
The NT salvation and final dispensation plan started as soon as Jesus died at Calvary.

There is no excuse for any believer to skip over this and expect to make it..

Baptism you say, does not save anyone you say?

Read this: I Peter 3 verses 20 &21: Which sometime were disobedient, when once the
long suffering of God wait ed in the days of Noah, while the Ark was preparing , when in few, that is, eight souls were SAVED by WATER.

The like figure where unto EVEN BAPTISM DOES ALSO NOW SAVE US.......

Technically of course, it is not true that baptism saves and from what I have read from you, you are a lot smarter than that to think that it does. The merely mechanical performance of that religious rite can only make a sinner a wet sinner. Peter means to explain that with
"Not putting away of the filth of the flesh".

What it means is just as the ark had something to do with the deliverance of those people from the judgment of the flood, so baptism, assuming that a person has accepted Christ as Saviour and desires to obey in this ordiance has something to do with deliverance from sin. It is only a picture, a type and the correspondence is very close.

It does not require a lot of thinking to see that baptism does not save anyone any more than the Law saved anyone.

 

[Major]

So, in your estimation of the gospel of Jesus Christ....What is necessary ? Just believing ? Accept/Receive/ Confess/ Aknowledge ?
Please show some scripture to confirm this "Outward profession of an inward work" doctrine.

Correct.

"BELIEVE upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved".

Anything more than that and you are into "saved by works".

Proponents of the teaching that baptism saves almost always base their argument on verses isolated from the more complete context of Scripture. The problem with this approach is that it can be (and has been) used to support all manner of errant doctrines at the hands of careless Christians and zealous cults.

It would seem that almost any belief can be propped up by finding a couple of verses somewhere in Scripture and emphasizing a phrase or two out of balance with the context of the passage.
In a similar way, it would be possible to appeal to a verse such as Romans 10:9 to teach “confessional salvation” — the idea that a person cannot be saved until they verbalize their belief in Jesus.

This just isn't that difficult to understand.

Are you really going to say that a man who walks the isle one Sunday and accepts Christ, and then dies of a heart attack before he is gotten wet is not a saved man????

A woman dying of cancer calls on the person next to her and through the conversation of this other woman, the cancer patient receives Christ. Then she dies from that cancer before being baptized. Now you are really going to say that woman was not saved because she was not wet.

Are you really trying to sell such a thought? Come on now, be real. But maybe that's the reason some people do not want to be a Christian if they have to accept that kind of teaching.

 

[Ricko1]

Technically of course, it is not true that baptism saves and from what I have read from you, you are a lot smarter than that to think that it does. The merely mechanical performance of that religious rite can only make a sinner a wet sinner. Peter means to explain that with
"Not putting away of the filth of the flesh".

What it means is just as the ark had something to do with the deliverance of those people from the judgment of the flood, so baptism, assuming that a person has accepted Christ as Saviour and desires to obey in this ordiance has something to do with deliverance from sin. It is only a picture, a type and the correspondence is very close.

It does not require a lot of thinking to see that baptism does not save anyone any more than the Law saved anyone.

Your Twisting around What Peter said...He was comparing the Flood Event Saving 8 souls by Water on Noah' s Ark....then he says LIKEWISE BAPTISM DOES NOW SAVE US. Did he not say that???

Remember Jesus gave Apostle Peter the keys in Matthew 16, did he not? Would Peter then come up with his personal doctrine? NO WAY!! And you never once addressed why Jesus was Baptized as our example, or what he told Nicodemus, Or how he saved the thief on the cross...Why?

It's Airtight..no excuse..

 

[Ricko1]

Correct.

"BELIEVE upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved".

Anything more than that and you are into "saved by works".

Proponents of the teaching that baptism saves almost always base their argument on verses isolated from the more complete context of Scripture. The problem with this approach is that it can be (and has been) used to support all manner of errant doctrines at the hands of careless Christians and zealous cults.

It would seem that almost any belief can be propped up by finding a couple of verses somewhere in Scripture and emphasizing a phrase or two out of balance with the context of the passage.
In a similar way, it would be possible to appeal to a verse such as Romans 10:9 to teach “confessional salvation” — the idea that a person cannot be saved until they verbalize their belief in Jesus.

This just isn't that difficult to understand.

Are you really going to say that a man who walks the isle one Sunday and accepts Christ, and then dies of a heart attack before he is gotten wet is not a saved man????

A woman dying of cancer calls on the person next to her and through the conversation of this other woman, the cancer patient receives Christ. Then she dies from that cancer before being baptized. Now you are really going to say that woman was not saved because she was not wet.

Are you really trying to sell such a thought? Come on now, be real. But maybe that's the reason some people do not want to be a Christian if they have to accept that kind of teaching.

As far as what a person who decides to repent on their death bed then dies without Baptism are they saved? I will leave that up to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. However for the other 99% who are not on their death bed...I would do as it says and stop trying toare excuses to avoid it or use vain Philosophy to avoid doing what they need to do..

 

[Major]

So, in your estimation of the gospel of Jesus Christ....What is necessary ? Just believing ? Accept/Receive/ Confess/ Aknowledge ?
Please show some scripture to confirm this "Outward profession of an inward work" doctrine.

As far as what a person who decides to repent on their death bed then dies without Baptism are they saved? I will leave that up to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. However for the other 99% who are not on their death bed...I would do as it says and stop trying toare excuses to avoid it or use vain Philosophy to avoid doing what they need to do..

Come on Rick.......you know the answer very well and that aint it.!!!

If it was your mother or your wife, would you give that same answer????

 

[Ricko1]

As far as what a person who decides to repent on their death bed then dies without Baptism are they saved? I will leave that up to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith. However for the other 99% who are not on their death bed...I would do as it says and stop trying toare excuses to avoid it or use vain Philosophy to avoid doing what they need to do..

Ad far as describing " Works" the way this is taken out of context by many people is foolish...Example: Baptism is " Works" What about Peaying, Driving to church, paying tithes, Singing in Church, Preaching, testifying then can also be described as " Works" right?

 

[Ricko1]

Ad far as describing " Works" the way this is taken out of context by many people is foolish...Example: Baptism is " Works" What about Peaying, Driving to church, paying tithes, Singing in Church, Preaching, testifying then can also be described as " Works" right?

I tell anybody what I just told you and others. You cannot be afraid of the Gospel of Jesus when witnessing to everyone.

 

[Ricko1]

I tell anybody what I just told you and others. You cannot be afraid of the Gospel of Jesus when witnessing to everyone.

The bottom line....Do it The way it is written and prove it by scriptures, and back up scriptures, and then if the other person does not want to follow it out of pride, or their church teachings versus Biblical teaches...then it is between they and God..

 

[Brother David]

Correct.

"BELIEVE upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved".

Anything more than that and you are into "saved by works".

Proponents of the teaching that baptism saves almost always base their argument on verses isolated from the more complete context of Scripture. The problem with this approach is that it can be (and has been) used to support all manner of errant doctrines at the hands of careless Christians and zealous cults.

It would seem that almost any belief can be propped up by finding a couple of verses somewhere in Scripture and emphasizing a phrase or two out of balance with the context of the passage.
In a similar way, it would be possible to appeal to a verse such as Romans 10:9 to teach “confessional salvation” — the idea that a person cannot be saved until they verbalize their belief in Jesus.

This just isn't that difficult to understand.

Are you really going to say that a man who walks the isle one Sunday and accepts Christ, and then dies of a heart attack before he is gotten wet is not a saved man????

A woman dying of cancer calls on the person next to her and through the conversation of this other woman, the cancer patient receives Christ. Then she dies from that cancer before being baptized. Now you are really going to say that woman was not saved because she was not wet.

Are you really trying to sell such a thought? Come on now, be real. But maybe that's the reason some people do not want to be a Christian if they have to accept that kind of teaching.

 

[Brother David]

Correct.

"BELIEVE upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved".

Anything more than that and you are into "saved by works".

Proponents of the teaching that baptism saves almost always base their argument on verses isolated from the more complete context of Scripture. The problem with this approach is that it can be (and has been) used to support all manner of errant doctrines at the hands of careless Christians and zealous cults.

It would seem that almost any belief can be propped up by finding a couple of verses somewhere in Scripture and emphasizing a phrase or two out of balance with the context of the passage.
In a similar way, it would be possible to appeal to a verse such as Romans 10:9 to teach “confessional salvation” — the idea that a person cannot be saved until they verbalize their belief in Jesus.

This just isn't that difficult to understand.

Are you really going to say that a man who walks the isle one Sunday and accepts Christ, and then dies of a heart attack before he is gotten wet is not a saved man????

A woman dying of cancer calls on the person next to her and through the conversation of this other woman, the cancer patient receives Christ. Then she dies from that cancer before being baptized. Now you are really going to say that woman was not saved because she was not wet.

Are you really trying to sell such a thought? Come on now, be real. But maybe that's the reason some people do not want to be a Christian if they have to accept that kind of teaching.

The book of James tells us that even the devils believe in one God and tremble........So, Major- are the devils saved ?
Where in the Bible do people get the idea that our salvation comes from our acceptance of Christ ?(He doesn't need us to accept Him)
One MUST humble himself and come to God with a Godly sorrow and repent, and seek God's mercy........ And ask God to help him to be acceptable to Him.

 

[Candelario Mario Villa]

I hear you Rick but I can not accept the idea that baptism is a requirement for salvation.

Is the man who accepted Christ before a battle and then dies before being baptized lost and in hell????
Is the thief on the cross in hell today because that did not baptize him. Didn't Jesus say.....TODAY you will be in Paradise????

The thief on the cross was saved, according to the Law!
Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which is why he was "...born of a woman, born under the Law." The scriptures testify" "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be a testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all as long as the testator lives." Then was the Lord Jesus alive or dead when the thief pronounced his words? Surely, Jesus was alive. And if the Lord was alive, then the New Testament was not yet in force: but the Law was in force. So if the Law was in effect, then the thief was saved according to the Law! And what says the Law?
"If a man is just and do that which is lawful and right...has walked in my statutes, and has kept my judgment; he is just, he shall "surely live, says the Lord.
"But if the wicked shall turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all my statutes...he shall not die.
"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity...All his righteousness that he has done shall not "be mentioned...in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die."
All who were saved under the Law, lived and fulfilled the Law. Those who are born under the New Testament, are judged according to the laws of Mercy and Grace.

 

[Ravindran]

The thief on the cross was saved, according to the Law!
Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which is why he was "...born of a woman, born under the Law." The scriptures testify" "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be a testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all as long as the testator lives." Then was the Lord Jesus alive or dead when the thief pronounced his words? Surely, Jesus was alive. And if the Lord was alive, then the New Testament was not yet in force: but the Law was in force. So if the Law was in effect, then the thief was saved according to the Law! And what says the Law?
"If a man is just and do that which is lawful and right...has walked in my statutes, and has kept my judgment; he is just, he shall "surely live, says the Lord.
"But if the wicked shall turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all my statutes...he shall not die.
"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity...All his righteousness that he has done shall not "be mentioned...in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die."
All who were saved under the Law, lived and fulfilled the Law. Those who are born under the New Testament, are judged according to the laws of Mercy and Grace.

This introduces lot of questions for me! If people can be saved by the law, what stops a person from being saved by the law in NT era? If baptism was not required until cross, why John the Baptist was baptising people in water? How Christ was able to forgive peoples sin when he was alive? (If they were to be saved by the law)

 

[Ravindran]

The book of James tells us that even the devils believe in one God and tremble........So, Major- are the devils saved ?
Where in the Bible do people get the idea that our salvation comes from our acceptance of Christ ?(He doesn't need us to accept Him)
One MUST humble himself and come to God with a Godly sorrow and repent, and seek God's mercy........ And ask God to help him to be acceptable to Him.

I think acceptance of Christ has some heavy meaning behind it.. Even devils accept Jesus as Lord.. Even people from other religions consider Jesus as one of the gods! Acceptance means accepting Christ as savior.. Accepting our sinful nature and realizing we need a divine savior. This is what Christ enforced all through his ministry. If we read the gospels closely

 

[Major]

The thief on the cross was saved, according to the Law!
Jesus came to fulfill the Law, which is why he was "...born of a woman, born under the Law." The scriptures testify" "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be a testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all as long as the testator lives." Then was the Lord Jesus alive or dead when the thief pronounced his words? Surely, Jesus was alive. And if the Lord was alive, then the New Testament was not yet in force: but the Law was in force. So if the Law was in effect, then the thief was saved according to the Law! And what says the Law?
"If a man is just and do that which is lawful and right...has walked in my statutes, and has kept my judgment; he is just, he shall "surely live, says the Lord.
"But if the wicked shall turn from all his sins that he has committed, and keep all my statutes...he shall not die.
"But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity...All his righteousness that he has done shall not "be mentioned...in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die."
All who were saved under the Law, lived and fulfilled the Law. Those who are born under the New Testament, are judged according to the laws of Mercy and Grace.

I hear you and understand what you are saying....but I believe that you are leaving out something.

You say that the thief got saved because he died under the Old Covenant but that is not true because the bible tells us that Jesus died before the two thieves died. If Jesus had not died before them then his legs would had to be broken.

The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. But when they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. John 19:32-33

If Jesus died before them then the thief on the cross got saved under the New Covenant because the bible tells us that a covenant takes place when the testator dies. From the second he or she dies then the covenant is in full effect.

Heb. 9:15-17...........
For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living.​