What is the "Mystery"?

Big Moose said:
I don't know if I would call those before Abraham Gentiles. There were no Jews then, so the idea of a Gentile would not either. Also, was Abraham a Jew? I thought Jacob was the first Jew since he was Israel. :D
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No problem brother. What then would you call those before Abraham?
 
Complete said:
Hello Penion,

With respect, my posts are not long, the last one was just two paragraphs in length. :)

Let us allow the Holy Spirit to give His own explanation of Pentecost:-
- Acts 2:16 ( see Joel 2:28-32, especially Joel 2:25, and the reference to 'restoration'): in refering to Joel, the Holy Spirit, through Peter, links what happened at Penticost with the day of the Lord (Acts 2:20)
- Pentecost is one of the feasts of Israel, found in Leviticus 23, they portray the phases of God's purpose of the ages which deal with Israel and the earthly kingdom.
- In Acts 5:31, Peter states that Christ had been exalted in order to give repentance to Israel.

The Church which is Christ's Body, Eph.1:22,23, of which Christ is the Head: was the subject of a secret that was 'hid in God' until 40 years later; after Israel was finally, though temporarily, laid aside in unbelief. So it cannot have had it's beginning at Pentecost.

The believing assembly which had it's beginnings at Pentecost, were those, of Israel, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah. They all anticipated His imminent return, and the restoration of Israel.

Hope this helps, Penion.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Chris, if you do not want to say ........no problem, I totally understand. But I was wondering what the mountains were in the background of your picture. They look beautiful !!!
 
Major said:
No problem brother. What then would you call those before Abraham?
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There would be no need to label them as not Jewish since there was no Jews or Hebrews. I will make up a fictitious example: Just as there is no term for a people called Buzzlerats. So there is no term for someone who is not a Buzzlerat. If and when a nationality of Buzzlerats spring up, then there may need to be a term for someone who is not Buzzleratean....Buzzleratos....Buzzleratite?
 
Big Moose said:
There would be no need to label them as not Jewish since there was no Jews or Hebrews. I will make up a fictitious example: Just as there is no term for a people called Buzzlerats. So there is no term for someone who is not a Buzzlerat. If and when a nationality of Buzzlerats spring up, then there may need to be a term for someone who is not Buzzleratean....Buzzleratos....Buzzleratite?
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Fair enough. So if that is the case, why not just call them "Gentiles"?
 
Major said:
Chris, if you do not want to say ........no problem, I totally understand. But I was wondering what the mountains were in the background of your picture. They look beautiful !!!
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Hello Major,
I don't mind you asking at all.

My husband and I were on holiday to mark a special wedding anniversary. We stayed in Sorrento on the Amalfi coast. The mount is mount Vesuvius. That was 10 years ago. I have no other photograph of myself alone on the computer, and this one is one I actually like for once.

Thank you.
Chris
 
Major said:
Fair enough. So if that is the case, why not just call them "Gentiles"?
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You are right. Looked up Gentiles and the first entry is in Genesis 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
This is within the listing of the generations of Noah.
Although, the Hebrew word translated 'of the Gentiles' is the same word in the same verse translated 'in their nations'. The word goy or gowy means 'the nations'.
 
Big Moose said:
You are right. Looked up Gentiles and the first entry is in Genesis 10:5
By these were the isles of the Gentiles divided in their lands; every one after his tongue, after their families, in their nations.
This is within the listing of the generations of Noah.
Although, the Hebrew word translated 'of the Gentiles' is the same word in the same verse translated 'in their nations'. The word goy or gowy means 'the nations'.
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'For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man:
but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.'
(2 Pet. 1:21)

Hello Big Moose,
I couldn't sleep last night, and your entry was one which stayed with me in the wee small ours. Limited as I was, because of the possibility of waking another, I had to be content with thinking, but these are my, 'thoughts', which I confirmed and referenced this morning.

Moses, wrote the Pentateuch (the first five books) retrospectively, by the breath of God (or at God's inspiration) , as he was 'moved,' 'by the Holy Ghost'. In which, God made a distinction between Israel the nation, born of promise, and the nations around them: for Israel was not to be reckoned among the nations (Num. 23:9).

'For from the top of the rocks I see him,
and from the hills I behold him:
lo, the people shall dwell alone,
and shall not be reckoned among the nations.'

They were a separate people, separated unto God, for His purpose. So the word, Gentile, is used for the nations other than Israel, in order to differentiate Israel from the other nations.

* Yes, Big Moose, I know that I am stating the obvious, but sometimes our minds need to clarify the 'obvious', don't they? For our own understanding, or for others, for what is obvious to us, who have read the Word of God for ourselves, is not so obvious to those who have not.

* I remembered also that the nations were numbered and allotted their inheritance according to the number of the children of Israel.

'These are the families of the sons of Noah,
after their generations, in their nations:
and by these were the nations divided in the earth
after the flood.'
(Gen 10:32)

'When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the people
according to the number of the children of Israel.
For the LORD'S portion is His people;
Jacob is the lot of His inheritance.'
(Deu 32:8)

'And all the souls
that came out of the loins of Jacob
were seventy souls:
for Joseph was in Egypt already.'
(Exo 1:5)

'All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt,
which came out of his loins,
besides Jacob's sons' wives,
all the souls were threescore and six;
And the sons of Joseph,
which were born him in Egypt,
were two souls:
all the souls of the house of Jacob,
which came into Egypt,
were threescore and ten.'
(Gen 46:26)

* The number seventy, being 10 + 7 - revealing Divine ordinal perfection.
* Israel is intended by God to be the head of the nations, and not the tail, as they are at present, and they yet will be (as a redeemed company)

Praise God!

* Thank you for filling my mind with thoughts,
during the wakeful hours of my night,
which God could use to bless me.

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Complete said:
Hello Major,
I don't mind you asking at all.

My husband and I were on holiday to mark a special wedding anniversary. We stayed in Sorrento on the Amalfi coast. The mount is mount Vesuvius. That was 10 years ago. I have no other photograph of myself alone on the computer, and this one is one I actually like for once.

Thank you.
Chris
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Well. my wife and I love the mountains and go to NC and Tenn. as often as we can.
 
We should also try to be as clear in our thinking and concepts as possible.
the Bible speaks of a number of mysteries .
But not all the mysteries are the same one or speaking about the same thing.
For instance when Paul was speaking about "works" he was speaking about one sort of work and when James was speaking about "works" he was speaking about another sort of work entirely .
Much confusion has a risen when people think both are speaking about the same sort of works .
Paul speaking about works of an unrighteous man by which no man is saved by. "By grace are ye saved ,not of works ....."
James was speaking about the works of faith or of righteousness that have rewards .
So then of mysteries not all are speaking about the same 'mystery'
In Ephesians Paul is speaking about the mystery hidden from the before the foundations of the world now revealed unto the Holy apostles and prophets . and in the same chapter then goes on to say what THAT mystery is .
In another passage he is speaking about a husband and wife ,then says he speaks of mystery of Christ and the church .
There is the mystery of Godliness.
as also the mystery of iniquity.
and there are I believe more.
So we should not mix our mysteries up as it were .

in Christ
gerald
 
Hello @geralduk

Reference to 'Mystery' in Ephesians, Colossians and 1 Timothy:-

'The mystery of His Will,' (Eph. 1:9)
'The mystery' (Eph. 3:3)
'The mystery of Christ' (Eph. 3:4)
'The dispensation (fellowship) of the mystery' (Eph. 3:9)
'The great mystery' (Eph. 5:32)
'The mystery of the gospel' (Eph. 6:19)

'The mystery' (Col. 1:26)
'The mystery among the Gentiles' (Col. 1:27)
'The mystery of God' (Col. 2:2)
'The mystery of Christ' (Col. 4:3)

'The mystery of faith' (1 Tim. 3:9)
'The mystery of godliness' (1 Tim. 3:16)

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
Cont: ...
* References to Mystery (musterion):- in the gospels, the earlier epistles of Paul, Revelation and Daniel.

Matt. 13:11 - The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven
Mark 4:11 - The mystery of the kingdom of God
Luke 8:10 - The mysteries of the Kingdom of God

Rom. 11:25 - Not .. be ignorant of this mystery.
Rom 16:25 - The mystery, which was kept secret
1 Cor. 2:7 - The wisdom of God in a mystery
1 Cor. 4:1 - Stewards of the mysteries of God
1 Cor. 13:2 - Though I ... understand all mysteries
1 Cor. 14:2 - In the spirit he speaketh mysteries
1 Cor. 15:51 - Behold, I show you a mystery
2 Thess. 2:7 - The mystery of iniquity doth already work

Rev. 1:20 - The mystery of the seven stars
Rev. 10:7 - The mystery of God should be finished
Rev. 17:5 - Mystery, Babylon the great
Rev. 17:7 - The mystery of the woman

Dan. 2:18 Mercies ... concerning this secret.
Dan. 2:19 - Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel
Dan 2:27 - The secret which the king hath demanded
Dan 2:28 - There is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets
Dan 2:29 - He that revealeth secrets
Dan 2:30 - The secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom
Dan. 2:47 - Lord of Kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
Dan. 4:9 - No secret troubleth thee, tell me.
 
Hello @geralduk

The two mysteries spoken of, in Ephesians 3, are important to distinguish, for the one concerns 'the mystery of Christ' (Ephesians 3:4), which was the subject of old testament prophecy, and made manifest to the prophets and apostles of the New, including Paul. Whereas 'the mystery' (Ephesians 3:3) , was not the subject of old time prophecy, and revealed to Paul alone, of which he was the administrator, and which is revealed in Ephesians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus.

'The Mystery' concerns the new dispensational dealings of God with the Gentiles. after Israel was laid aside in unbelief (temporarily) at the end of the period covered by the book of the Acts of the Apostles: it concerns the Church which is His Body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all, of which Christ is the Head. Within which 'the mystery of His will' is revealed also, in Ephesians 1:9,10.

'The Mystery of Christ', is not just the fulfilment of prophecy: for while many in Israel saw the teaching of their Scriptures as to the coming of the Messiah in glory and dominion, few saw the Mystery of the Messiah which related to His Coming in lowliness, rejection and suffering. Christ said, speaking of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, 'many prophets and righteous men have desired to see these things .... but have not seen them' (Matt. 13:17), and into the Mystery of Christ 'angels desired to look' (1 Peter 1:12). Mystery necessitates revelation. It is something that cannot be arrived at by study alone.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

* reference made to 'The Alphabetical Analysis', vol. 3, by Charles Welch.
http://www.charleswelch.net/AN ALPHABETICAL ANALYSIS PART 03.pdf
 
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Ha . I knew there was more .

I would not put a 'secret' in the same place as a mystery .
Though they are cousins so to speak.
For a secret is something that is deliberately hidden (?)
A mystery is in and of itself a thing that has so much depth to it it is nigh on impossible if not impossible to fathom .
Or explain.
A secret is understood once it is revealed ?
A mystery is perhaps something that can never be understood and then only by a knowledge that passeth all understanding .
The mystery of Gods will. For instance .
Not as to what His will is . For "we may know and prove what is the good and acceptable will of God is..."
But the mystery of His will is wrapped up in the very nature and character of God "who doeth all things after the council of His own will."
For instance "it pleased God to bruise him"
The first Adam was the foreshadow of Him who was to come " Are a couple of mine .
been chewing on for a long time off and on.

in Christ
gerald
 
geralduk said:
Paul speaking about works of an unrighteous man by which no man is saved by. "By grace are ye saved ,not of works ....."
James was speaking about the works of faith or of righteousness that have rewards .
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Hello @geralduk,

I like this distinction, I had not seen it quite this way before.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
geralduk said:
Ha . I knew there was more .

I would not put a 'secret' in the same place as a mystery .
Though they are cousins so to speak.
For a secret is something that is deliberately hidden (?)
A mystery is in and of itself a thing that has so much depth to it it is nigh on impossible if not impossible to fathom .
Or explain.
A secret is understood once it is revealed ?
A mystery is perhaps something that can never be understood and then only by a knowledge that passeth all understanding .
The mystery of Gods will. For instance .
Not as to what His will is . For "we may know and prove what is the good and acceptable will of God is..."
But the mystery of His will is wrapped up in the very nature and character of God "who doeth all things after the council of His own will."
For instance "it pleased God to bruise him"
The first Adam was the foreshadow of Him who was to come " Are a couple of mine .
been chewing on for a long time off and on.

in Christ
gerald
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Hello again,

The word 'secret' in Daniel, is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek, musterion, of which the word, 'mystery', is translated. It should be viewed in just the same way. The mysteries, are simply secrets which needed revelation.

'The Mystery' of Ephesians 3, was 'hid in God' since before the foundation of the world. That secret could not have been sought out by any man, until made known to Paul to be administered to the redeemed under his ministration.

'The mystery of His will', of Ephesians 1:9,10, has been made known also: being, '... that in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him. ... '

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Hello there,

The mysteries, were secrets which God in His wisdom needed to keep until the time came for their revealing. For example, 'the Mystery' of Ephesians 3, made known in that Epistle, Colossians and Philippians: was not revealed until after the forty years (approx) of the record of the Acts period. For until then the door was open to Israel to repent.

Up until then the gentiles who believed were grafted into the Olive Tree that was Israel, and received of the blessings of Abraham of an age now yet to come. Their final rejection of the truth concerning Christ at the end of the Acts, brought in the judgement warned of in Isaiah 6 (see Acts 28:26,27) and it was then that God needed to reveal 'the mystery', with it's unique hope and blessings (see Ephesians 1), and the practical outworking of it, through Paul.

God does not want us to be ignorant of any of these mysteries, for they have now been revealed, and written on the pages of the written Word, for us to read. He has also given us the prayers of Ephesians, chapter one and three, to pray for ourselves and for all the members of His Body. For the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, and to know the love of Christ in all it's fullness.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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Complete said:
Cont: ...
* References to Mystery (musterion):- in the gospels, the earlier epistles of Paul, Revelation and Daniel.

Matt. 13:11 - The mysteries of the kingdom of heaven
Mark 4:11 - The mystery of the kingdom of God
Luke 8:10 - The mysteries of the Kingdom of God

Rom. 11:25 - Not .. be ignorant of this mystery.
Rom 16:25 - The mystery, which was kept secret
1 Cor. 2:7 - The wisdom of God in a mystery
1 Cor. 4:1 - Stewards of the mysteries of God
1 Cor. 13:2 - Though I ... understand all mysteries
1 Cor. 14:2 - In the spirit he speaketh mysteries
1 Cor. 15:51 - Behold, I show you a mystery
2 Thess. 2:7 - The mystery of iniquity doth already work

Rev. 1:20 - The mystery of the seven stars
Rev. 10:7 - The mystery of God should be finished
Rev. 17:5 - Mystery, Babylon the great
Rev. 17:7 - The mystery of the woman

Dan. 2:18 Mercies ... concerning this secret.
Dan. 2:19 - Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel
Dan 2:27 - The secret which the king hath demanded
Dan 2:28 - There is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets
Dan 2:29 - He that revealeth secrets
Dan 2:30 - The secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom
Dan. 2:47 - Lord of Kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest reveal this secret.
Dan. 4:9 - No secret troubleth thee, tell me.
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Complete said:
Hello @geralduk

Reference to 'Mystery' in Ephesians, Colossians and 1 Timothy:-

'The mystery of His Will,' (Eph. 1:9)
'The mystery' (Eph. 3:3)
'The mystery of Christ' (Eph. 3:4)
'The dispensation (fellowship) of the mystery' (Eph. 3:9)
'The great mystery' (Eph. 5:32)
'The mystery of the gospel' (Eph. 6:19)

'The mystery' (Col. 1:26)
'The mystery among the Gentiles' (Col. 1:27)
'The mystery of God' (Col. 2:2)
'The mystery of Christ' (Col. 4:3)

'The mystery of faith' (1 Tim. 3:9)
'The mystery of godliness' (1 Tim. 3:16)

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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There's a great selection there - good job. (y)
 
Complete said:
Hello there,

The mysteries, were secrets which God in His wisdom needed to keep until the time came for their revealing. For example, 'the Mystery' of Ephesians 3, made known in that Epistle, Colossians and Philippians: was not revealed until after the forty years (approx) of the record of the Acts period. For until then the door was open to Israel to repent.

Up until then the gentiles who believed were grafted into the Olive Tree that was Israel, and received of the blessings of Abraham of an age now yet to come. Their final rejection of the truth concerning Christ at the end of the Acts, brought in the judgement warned of in Isaiah 6 (see Acts 28:26,27) and it was then that God needed to reveal 'the mystery', with it's unique hope and blessings (see Ephesians 1), and the practical outworking of it, through Paul.

God does not want us to be ignorant of any of these mysteries, for they have now been revealed, and written on the pages of the written Word, for us to read. He has also given us the prayers of Ephesians, chapter one and three, to pray for ourselves and for all the members of His Body. For the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, and to know the love of Christ in all it's fullness.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris
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There are some mysteries that will never be plumbed .
But will still be reconciled in God .

I would agree as to others that have been revealed .
The one that was first mentioned was that both the Jew and the Gentile will be made one in a new body .
Which I would think that then relates there beign no Jew or gentile in Christ .
The same message / Gospel being preached to them that were near ;the Jews and to them that were afar of ;the gentiles .
As things stand now both seem to desire a difference as it were .
Converted Jews and converted gentiles.
The reconciliation of us both to Christ and in Christ will and is a most wonderful thing.
For if the reconciliation of the Gentile to God was of such glory what then the salvation of the Jews if not as Paul said as of a "raising of the dead" (Romans)
As for Hebrew and Greek translations while what you say is reasonable as to secret and mystery .
In English I would still have them as distant cousins as it were and the word 'mystery ' is both stronger and has more depth to it than 'secret'.
and as it is written "mystery" rather than secret I will as things stand hold to what I have said ,

It is not so much a matter to write much about.
My only contention was that the mystery that Paul mentioned in Ephesians is the one he then explained as in the above.Which I was getting 'lost' in all the other 'mysteries ' mentioned .
But thanks for the list .
Very helpful.

in Christ
gerald
 
Big Moose said:
What is the 'mystery' spoken of by Paul? These verses are references to the mystery.
Romans 16:25
Ephesians 3
3:9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ

Ephesians 6:19
Colossians 1:26, 27; 2:2; 4:3
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Big Moose said:
What is the 'mystery' spoken of by Paul? These verses are references to the mystery.
Romans 16:25
Ephesians 3
3:9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ

Ephesians 6:19
Colossians 1:26, 27; 2:2; 4:3
Click to expand...

Mystery is "Christ in you" the hope of glory.
 
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