What is the "Mystery"?

[geralduk]

Mystery is "Christ in you" the hope of glory.

I do not understand why you quote the verse in Ephesians 3
but then do not follow what Paul says is the mystery that he is speaking about.
"That the gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the SAME BODY and partakes of His promise in Christ by the Gospel" then expanded on after .
Thats verse 6. the Emphasis (SAME BODY) is mine.
There is as, 'Complete' has listed many mysteries . But the mystery of Ephesians 3 is as Paul says of it .
and we should not mix all the mysteries up as all being the same mystery .
For it will only create confusion later in our thinking.
Even as God in the beginning divided everything or separated .
So also will he at the end gather all things that are of God together In Christ and be subject to Him .
For by Him were all things made and there is not anything that was made that was not made or created by Him .
and when all things have been made subject to the Son then the Son will subject Himself to the Father that God may be all in all.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Complete]

Mystery is "Christ in you" the hope of glory.

'... Even the mystery
which hath been hid
from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: ... '
(Col 1:26,27)
Hello @Noblemen,

It is very obvious what is dear to your heart, and rightly so, for this is the truth that God would make known: and it is to 'saints' that this message is to be made known, to believers.

Looking at this verse in the interlinear Bible, I see that the same Greek word is used to translated both the word, 'among' and 'in', highlighted above, and there are those who say that it is the fact that Christ is 'among' the Gentiles, which is their hope of glory. If that were the case, would that alter your perception as to it's application? Whereas the application you have made in other threads has been 'individual', (Christ in you), this would make it more 'corporate' (Christ among you), wouldn't it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

'Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men,
as it is now revealed unto His holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs,
and of the same body,
and partakers of His promise in Christ by the gospel:
Whereof I was made a minister,
according to the gift of the grace of God
given unto me by the effectual working of His power.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints,
is this grace given,
that I should preach among the Gentiles
the unsearchable riches of Christ;
And to make all men see
what is the fellowship of the mystery,
which from the beginning of the world
hath been hid in God,
Who created all things by Jesus Christ: ... '
(Eph 3:5-9)

'... Even the mystery
which hath been hid
from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: ... '
(Col 1:26,27)

* These two portions of scripture, one quoted by Noblemen, the other by geralduk are worth comparing.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

I do not understand why you quote the verse in Ephesians 3
but then do not follow what Paul says is the mystery that he is speaking about.
"That the gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the SAME BODY and partakes of His promise in Christ by the Gospel" then expanded on after .
Thats verse 6. the Emphasis (SAME BODY) is mine.
There is as, 'Complete' has listed many mysteries . But the mystery of Ephesians 3 is as Paul says of it .
and we should not mix all the mysteries up as all being the same mystery .
For it will only create confusion later in our thinking.
Even as God in the beginning divided everything or separated .
So also will he at the end gather all things that are of God together In Christ and be subject to Him .
For by Him were all things made and there is not anything that was made that was not made or created by Him .
and when all things have been made subject to the Son then the Son will subject Himself to the Father that God may be all in all.

in Christ
gerald

Hello @geralduk,

It is Colossians 1:26,27 that Noblemen is quoting, and not Ephesians 3: however you are right that the words, 'Christ in you the hope of glory' is not describing the mystery itself, but 'the riches of the glory of this mystery'. Just as in Ephesians 3, which you quoted, Paul speaks in verse 8, of 'the unsearchable riches of Christ', which he is to, 'preach among the Gentiles'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Complete]

Mystery is "Christ in you" the hope of glory.

Hello again, @Noblemen,

I found these notes among my books which relate to 'Christ in you the hope of glory', and what I said in my previous response to you, (quote)

'The words “Christ in you” should be translated “Christ among you”. En followed by the plural is so translated many times, and is actually found in the same verse—“among the Gentiles.” So that the reader may see for himself that such is a consistent translation, we give a few out of more than one hundred passages, where the A.V. renders en followed by the plural as “among”:--

“None other name . . . . . given among men” (Acts iv. 12).
“Inheritance among them which are sanctified” (Acts xxvi. 18).
“Obedience to the faith among all nations” (Rom. i. 5).
“Christ, Who was preached among you” (II Cor. i. 19).
“That I might preach Him among the heathen” (Gal. i. 16).

The doctrine of the indwelling Christ or of the indwelling Spirit is not here in view. The glory that is here made known is not the glory of God in connection with the salvation of the Gentiles. It is definitely stated to be “the riches of the glory of this mystery” which, as explained in the sequel, is associated with “the hope”. So that this glory must be the glory of which the Gentiles hope to become partakers as the result of the revelation of the mystery. '

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Euphemia]

Christ in you (en) and among, also means within. We mustn't quibble about words.

 

[Complete]

Christ in you (en) and among, also means within. We mustn't quibble about words.

'Even the mystery
which hath been hid from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches
of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you,
the hope of glory:'

Hello @Euphemia,

Yes, quibbling about words achieves nothing, I agree. However, the context is vital to the understanding of any verse, and should be consulted. The wording of the verse itself, indicates that it is to be understood 'corporately' and not 'individually'. The very nature of the mystery, which had been hid from ages and from generations, was that Christ was now among the nations, that they were on an equal footing, Israel no longer having prior place. Gentiles believers were now 'made nigh' unto God, in Christ, apart from the ministration of Israel, the blessings they received were not the blessings of Abraham, but were 'spiritual' and 'all' and to be enjoyed in a new sphere, 'in heavenly places', - in Christ Jesus. This is not an individual message, but a corporate one.

However, I have no intention of quibbling about it. We are each responsible for our own study, and the conclusions we reach. However, for me not to have raised this for consideration would have been remiss.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[geralduk]

Hello @geralduk,

It is Colossians 1:26,27 that Noblemen is quoting, and not Ephesians 3: however you are right that the words, 'Christ in you the hope of glory' is not describing the mystery itself, but 'the riches of the glory of this mystery'. Just as in Ephesians 3, which you quoted, Paul speaks in verse 8, of 'the unsearchable riches of Christ', which he is to, 'preach among the Gentiles'.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I fear we are misunderstanding each other ;(possible with such indirect communication)?
The mystery is clearly stated in Ephesians what it is . That both the Jew and the Gentile will become partakers of the same promises and in the one body. Being then of one father even God.
and of one father of the faith even Abraham .
One faith, one baptism one Lord as so on as stated also in Ephesians .

In Christ
gerald

 

[geralduk]

Hello again, @Noblemen,

I found these notes among my books which relate to 'Christ in you the hope of glory', and what I said in my previous response to you, (quote)

'The words “Christ in you” should be translated “Christ among you”. En followed by the plural is so translated many times, and is actually found in the same verse—“among the Gentiles.” So that the reader may see for himself that such is a consistent translation, we give a few out of more than one hundred passages, where the A.V. renders en followed by the plural as “among”:--

“None other name . . . . . given among men” (Acts iv. 12).
“Inheritance among them which are sanctified” (Acts xxvi. 18).
“Obedience to the faith among all nations” (Rom. i. 5).
“Christ, Who was preached among you” (II Cor. i. 19).
“That I might preach Him among the heathen” (Gal. i. 16).

The doctrine of the indwelling Christ or of the indwelling Spirit is not here in view. The glory that is here made known is not the glory of God in connection with the salvation of the Gentiles. It is definitely stated to be “the riches of the glory of this mystery” which, as explained in the sequel, is associated with “the hope”. So that this glory must be the glory of which the Gentiles hope to become partakers as the result of the revelation of the mystery. '

In Christ Jesus
Chris

"In" and "among" is very different and while both are true they are not nescersarily each true as stated in a verse.
God condesended to live AMONG and in the MIDST of His people .
Emanauel God with us ;comes to mind.
It has always been Gods will even from the beginning when"the Voice of the Lord God walked in the cool of the evening" in the garden of Eden. So some verses will pertain to that truth .
While others will speak/teach of the indwelling Spirit of God "Christ in you"
They clearly speak of two different truths .
"Where two or more are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of you"
While many may gather together it is not always in Jesus name . For they they may be geographically in the same place they are all too often mentally not. and while the body is there the mind is afar off as also can the heart.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Complete]

I fear we are misunderstanding each other ;(possible with such indirect communication)?
The mystery is clearly stated in Ephesians what it is . That both the Jew and the Gentile will become partakers of the same promises and in the one body. Being then of one father even God.
and of one father of the faith even Abraham .
One faith, one baptism one Lord as so on as stated also in Ephesians .

In Christ
gerald

Abraham is not mentioned in any of the prison epistles, Ephesians, Colossians, Philippians, 1 & 2 Timothy or Titus: and these are the epistles which were written after the revelation of 'The Mystery' was given to Paul to administer.

The truth concerning the Joint Body.(Col. 1:24-26; Eph. 3:3-6).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

.

 

[Complete]

"In" and "among" is very different and while both are true they are not nescersarily each true as stated in a verse.
God condesended to live AMONG and in the MIDST of His people .
Emanauel God with us ;comes to mind.
It has always been Gods will even from the beginning when"the Voice of the Lord God walked in the cool of the evening" in the garden of Eden. So some verses will pertain to that truth .
While others will speak/teach of the indwelling Spirit of God "Christ in you"
They clearly speak of two different truths .
"Where two or more are gathered in my name there I am in the midst of you.
While many may gather together it is not always in Jesus name . For they they may be geographically in the same place they are all too often mentally not. and while the body is there the mind is afar off as also can the heart.

in Christ
gerald

I stand by what I have already said, @geralduk, nothing will be gained by saying more.

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Noblemen]

That

'... Even the mystery
which hath been hid
from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: ... '
(Col 1:26,27)
Hello @Noblemen,

It is very obvious what is dear to your heart, and rightly so, for this is the truth that God would make known: and it is to 'saints' that this message is to be made known, to believers.

Looking at this verse in the interlinear Bible, I see that the same Greek word is used to translated both the word, 'among' and 'in', highlighted above, and there are those who say that it is the fact that Christ is 'among' the Gentiles, which is their hope of glory. If that were the case, would that alter your perception as to it's application? Whereas the application you have made in other threads has been 'individual', (Christ in you), this would make it more 'corporate' (Christ among you), wouldn't it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Thats alot of thinking Chris

 

[Noblemen]

'... Even the mystery
which hath been hid
from ages and from generations,
but now is made manifest to His saints:
To whom God would make known
what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles;
which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: ... '
(Col 1:26,27)
Hello @Noblemen,

It is very obvious what is dear to your heart, and rightly so, for this is the truth that God would make known: and it is to 'saints' that this message is to be made known, to believers.

Looking at this verse in the interlinear Bible, I see that the same Greek word is used to translated both the word, 'among' and 'in', highlighted above, and there are those who say that it is the fact that Christ is 'among' the Gentiles, which is their hope of glory. If that were the case, would that alter your perception as to it's application? Whereas the application you have made in other threads has been 'individual', (Christ in you), this would make it more 'corporate' (Christ among you), wouldn't it?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Also Cheis if you are reading the King Jimmy then you really are best served to not use the greek and Hebrew

 

[Noblemen]

Also Cheis if you are reading the King Jimmy then you really are best served to not use the greek and Hebrew

That posted way to soon, if you use a KJV then the Greek and Hebrew will cause confusion at times. KJV can really be taken for what it says no adding needed. Now if you use other translations then good luck most have cut out the "in Christ" message as far as doctrine is concerned. Read Paul the way he speaks, he can be taken at face value. He will never ever mix law with grace and can be trusted to be "follow me as I follow Christ." How do we follow Paul? By simply following him through the scripture, by reading his epistles. When you read Paul you are reading the mind of Christ, its that simple but you will need the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to you.

 

[geralduk]

That posted way to soon, if you use a KJV then the Greek and Hebrew will cause confusion at times. KJV can really be taken for what it says no adding needed. Now if you use other translations then good luck most have cut out the "in Christ" message as far as doctrine is concerned. Read Paul the way he speaks, he can be taken at face value. He will never ever mix law with grace and can be trusted to be "follow me as I follow Christ." How do we follow Paul? By simply following him through the scripture, by reading his epistles. When you read Paul you are reading the mind of Christ, its that simple but you will need the Holy Spirit to reveal Christ to you.

While this is not the place to have any discussion about the KJV. I would have to add that I have only heard two arguments against the KJV.
The first is the what is perceived as the archaic language.
Given that words are expressions of thought and that Gods thoughts are higher than mans thoughts .I would and should expect then that the Word of God should have higher expressions of thought and in this case; in English than the norm. and if we men will not change Shakepere to suit modern 'tastes' why should I change the "Ancient of days " words to suit myself? For are we not to be transformed by the renewal of our minds? How then can that happen if we insist that we bring down the Word of God to our level and experience?
The second is that it is asserted that some verses "were not in the original texts" Yet cannot seem to argue how those self same verses contradict the rest of scripture .Yet as you have pointed out other versions have ommitted verses and words that ARE in those texts . and deny sound doctrine .
This then is not a blind kjv only 'ism' its simply how is it that with their much aclaimed "better understanding" we do not get better Bibles nor indeed a Holy church .

in Christ
gerald

 

[Complete]

Hello @geralduk,

Forgive me if my previous responses were brusque, and unhelpful, I can only say that I was very tired when I wrote them.

* The Truth contained in the Epistle to the Ephesians and the other letters written from prison by Paul, are founded on the Truths revealed in the Roman epistle: 'Justification by faith' and 'salvation by grace alone', for example, is not discussed in Ephesians but it is an intrinsic part of the foundation upon which it is built.

* The words that open chapter three of Ephesians, come again in verse 14, ' ... For this cause': the deduction and application of the Truth concerning the 'habitation of God in spirit' of the last verse of chapter two which Paul was about to make, is halted and resumed again in verse 14.

* The intervening parenthesis (vv. 2-13) is complete in itself and could be lifted out of the chapter without harming the narrative surrounding it. That parenthesis contains the truth concerning the Mystery, in which Paul alludes to the Mystery of Christ, which he, along with the other apostles and prophets of the new testament were party to: in order to validate the further truth of 'The Mystery' which was only made known to himself; which he sought to explain.

Must go.
Within the love of Christ our Head
Chris

 

[Big Moose]

While this is not the place to have any discussion about the KJV. I would have to add that I have only heard two arguments against the KJV.
The first is the what is perceived as the archaic language.
Given that words are expressions of thought and that Gods thoughts are higher than mans thoughts .I would and should expect then that the Word of God should have higher expressions of thought and in this case; in English than the norm. and if we men will not change Shakepere to suit modern 'tastes' why should I change the "Ancient of days " words to suit myself? For are we not to be transformed by the renewal of our minds? How then can that happen if we insist that we bring down the Word of God to our level and experience?
The second is that it is asserted that some verses "were not in the original texts" Yet cannot seem to argue how those self same verses contradict the rest of scripture .Yet as you have pointed out other versions have ommitted verses and words that ARE in those texts . and deny sound doctrine .
This then is not a blind kjv only 'ism' its simply how is it that with their much aclaimed "better understanding" we do not get better Bibles nor indeed a Holy church .

in Christ
gerald

My only gripe with the KJV is phrases which seem to make no sense in our language today. One example: Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope..... Sorry, but I have to look it up in the NLT to get a handle on what is being said. I also dislike having to look up words like "concupiscence" and "firkin".

 

[Big Moose]

I was reading thru Romans to see if there were other references to the 'Mystery' other than in chapter 16 verse 25. What I came to realize was that the entire book of Romans is a detailed description and outline of the 'Mystery'.

 

[geralduk]

My only gripe with the KJV is phrases which seem to make no sense in our language today. One example: Romans 4:18 Who against hope believed in hope..... Sorry, but I have to look it up in the NLT to get a handle on what is being said. I also dislike having to look up words like "concupiscence" and "firkin".

No harm in further study. and when you went to college or University did not your chosen subject have almost a language all of its own that you had to look up?
is not the Bible the highest education any man can have?

"Who against hope believed in hope" I prefer to think until I find the answer myself .
"In the night he was betrayed he took bread " seemed to be a strange juxtaposition that took me over a year to get some understanding of it over and above the obvious that clearly it was the same night he was betrayed he took bread.
One part of that was that the night of the greatest betrayal was also the night of the deepest communion .
As for the first . There are times when a man has no hope at all or reason to hope . Abraham was to old to sire a child and Sarah to old to conceive one . yet having no 'reason ' to hope his faith grew to hope still in the promise of God an altogether different ' reason'.
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things as yet unseen"
I dont know how the NLT puts it . But it is better I think to endeavour where possible to work it out yourself .

In Christ
gerald

 

[Complete]

I was reading thru Romans to see if there were other references to the 'Mystery' other than in chapter 16 verse 25. What I came to realize was that the entire book of Romans is a detailed description and outline of the 'Mystery'.

Which mystery are you referring to, Big Moose?

In Christ Jesus
Chris


* Reference made to 'The Alphabetical Analysis' (vol.3) by Charles Welch.