When Bible Study Isn't

You all make good points,

First, we need to depend on the guidance of the Holy Spirit, not some the interpretations of men - regardless of how smart or devout they appear to be. (mistmann)
.....The wisdom of men is like foolishness in God's eyes.

Second, we are not left to depend on "me and the Bible" to understand all things. (quantrill)
....Some are appointed teachers.
 
Sorry.... I lost my internet connection before I was able to complete my thoughts....don't remember exactly what I was going to say, but....

Churches are too often measured by how much what is going on pleases us and makes us feel good. while I often feel good spending time with the Lord, this is not the only purpose we have in fellowship. We are also supposed to hold each other accountable and that is the element I see disappearing.

Or by how fast they are growing!! Neither of these things is a measure of a good church. Islam is growing in leaps and bounds. In contrast, when Jesus spoke the truth many rejected his words and walked away!!!
 
Quantrill said:
I believe most Bible teachers and students of the Bible would agree that we always trust God, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit over any human book or teacher. That being said, you still need Bible teachers, be it in the form of books or human teachers.

If one is a new believer in Christ, how does he know anything other than Jesus Christ died for him and He is the Lord and Saviour? The ones who witnessed to him, where he goes to church, all play a role now in how he understands the Bible. His 'interpretation'.

Just like with you. How do you interpret the Bible? Literally or allegorically? Are you Dispensational or Covenant theologian? How did you decide which is the correct method of interpreting?

Thanks for the welcome.

Quantrill
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How did the Apostles come to understand the scriptures? For all the time they spent with Jesus what we find is that it is by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by the intensity of their study that they understood the word of the Lord. For we read that just before Jesus ascended into Heaven having been with them for around three years He did this:-
Lu 24:45 " Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
And we find elsewhere that it is by the Holy spirit and not "theology" that understanding comes, for the Lord grants or withholds understanding as HE will despite our efforts:-
Joh 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
Lu 8:10 "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."
1 John 2:26 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
We must be exceedingly careful if we insist that the only way to properly understand the Bible is to be taught by a church, or a minister or some other "properly authorised" person for to do so is to deny the power of the Holy Spirit to grant understanding to whomever the Lord decides by whatever means He decides.
The real question we must ask ourselves is do we TRUST the Holy Spirit and the word of the Lord Himself enough to rely on THE LORD's promise to grant understanding to those who earnestly seek it?
James 1:5 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
As for myself I come from an atheist background not a church background. It was the word (and Spirit) of the Lord Himself not any person that led me to Christ. I am a true follower of Christ and not a follower of a church, theology or any other school of thought. I pay careful attention to what the Bible itself actually does and does not say and test ALL church, traditional, and theological teachings against it.
I do not interpret the Bible as we are forbidden to interpret the word of the Lord according to our own imaginations (See Jeremiah 23 as a good warning). Rather I seek the meaning the LORD intended His words to have by carefully studying the words He has written there on the page. The Lord means what He SAYS and He SAYS what He means. Therefore it is important to understand what HIS words actually SAY and what they do NOT say.
I do not say "I believe the Lord means this or that, or I interpret this or that passage to mean ..., or this or that school of thought says this or that. My authority to understanding is the same one Jesus Himself used ... "IT IS WRITTEN!". Meaning it is in accordance with what the LORD, as the writer, has actually written, not in accordance with what some reader THINKS it means.
I find most interpretations and schools of thought to not accord with what is written. I reject any teaching that is not in accordance with what has been WRITTEN by the Lord Himself.
Regards Misty.
 
Can anyone tell me why suddenly no matter how many lines I try and put between paragraphs they all disappear the moment I post it leaving no gaps between paragraphs. It use to and now it doesn't for me but it seems to for others. Is there a code I now have to use?
Any advice gratefully received as I would like to separate my paragraphs for ease of reading.
 
mistmann said:
How did the Apostles come to understand the scriptures? For all the time they spent with Jesus what we find is that it is by the power of the Holy Spirit and not by the intensity of their study that they understood the word of the Lord. For we read that just before Jesus ascended into Heaven having been with them for around three years He did this:-
Lu 24:45 " Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,"
And we find elsewhere that it is by the Holy spirit and not "theology" that understanding comes, for the Lord grants or withholds understanding as HE will despite our efforts:-
Joh 14:26 "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."
Lu 8:10 "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand."
1 John 2:26 "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."
Hebrews 8:10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest."
We must be exceedingly careful if we insist that the only way to properly understand the Bible is to be taught by a church, or a minister or some other "properly authorised" person for to do so is to deny the power of the Holy Spirit to grant understanding to whomever the Lord decides by whatever means He decides.
The real question we must ask ourselves is do we TRUST the Holy Spirit and the word of the Lord Himself enough to rely on THE LORD's promise to grant understanding to those who earnestly seek it?
James 1:5 " If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him."
As for myself I come from an atheist background not a church background. It was the word (and Spirit) of the Lord Himself not any person that led me to Christ. I am a true follower of Christ and not a follower of a church, theology or any other school of thought. I pay careful attention to what the Bible itself actually does and does not say and test ALL church, traditional, and theological teachings against it.
I do not interpret the Bible as we are forbidden to interpret the word of the Lord according to our own imaginations (See Jeremiah 23 as a good warning). Rather I seek the meaning the LORD intended His words to have by carefully studying the words He has written there on the page. The Lord means what He SAYS and He SAYS what He means. Therefore it is important to understand what HIS words actually SAY and what they do NOT say.
I do not say "I believe the Lord means this or that, or I interpret this or that passage to mean ..., or this or that school of thought says this or that. My authority to understanding is the same one Jesus Himself used ... "IT IS WRITTEN!". Meaning it is in accordance with what the LORD, as the writer, has actually written, not in accordance with what some reader THINKS it means.
I find most interpretations and schools of thought to not accord with what is written. I reject any teaching that is not in accordance with what has been WRITTEN by the Lord Himself.
Regards Misty.
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Concerning 1John 2:27, yes every Christian has the anointing of the Holy Spirit. And, we as Christians do trust the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth. And it is not the teaching of man that teaches us the truths in the Bible. It is the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

But.....it will be the teachings of the Holy Spirit through other believers. The Bible you have in your hand is the product of the Holy Spirits work in other believers. The Apostle's doctrine is that of the Holy Spirit, but is given to us through their teaching. Many believers, faithful to God and Christ, have contributed much to the knowledge of the Scriptures. Which knowledge you enjoy. But it is of the Holy Spirit.

Man can just as easy be mistaken in his studies of the Bible in an area. But just like the teachers, we too have the Holy Spirit. And we too can compare the Scriptures. And if we believe they are wrong, then we can say so; point it out; go to the Scriptures and find out. Perhaps we may be found to be the one who is wrong.

Have you ever been wrong in understanding anything in the Bible? Or did you get it right always the first time around?

I do not doubt your salvation and praise our Lord for it. But it was the Spirit of the Lord that led each Christian to Christ. Every single believer saved was saved because the Spirit of God opened their eyes to it. I don't care if one is saved after having been in Church for 20 years. He was saved only because the Spirit of God revealed Himself to him. But, done through the witness and teaching of other believers also.

You say you don't interpret, but your intrepreting now as we are discussing this. And the warnings in Jer. 23 pertain to false prophets. Not real prophets of God, of which Jeremiah was one. So, just because there are false teachers and prophets, doesn't mean we disregard true teachers and prophets. And you have the Holy Spirit and the written Word to compare.

So, you believe what the Lord says. He says what He means. And means what He says. I believe that also. So, you believe in the literal translation of Scripture. Correct?

As to what has been written by the Lord Himself, Im not sure what you mean. The Bible?

Quantrill
 
Sorry, the statement in the next to the last paragraph should read "...you believe in the literal 'interpretation' of Scripture." Instead of 'translation'.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Concerning 1John 2:27, yes every Christian has the anointing of the Holy Spirit. And, we as Christians do trust the Holy Spirit to lead us into truth. And it is not the teaching of man that teaches us the truths in the Bible. It is the teaching of the Holy Spirit.

But.....it will be the teachings of the Holy Spirit through other believers. The Bible you have in your hand is the product of the Holy Spirits work in other believers. The Apostle's doctrine is that of the Holy Spirit, but is given to us through their teaching. Many believers, faithful to God and Christ, have contributed much to the knowledge of the Scriptures. Which knowledge you enjoy. But it is of the Holy Spirit.

Man can just as easy be mistaken in his studies of the Bible in an area. But just like the teachers, we too have the Holy Spirit. And we too can compare the Scriptures. And if we believe they are wrong, then we can say so; point it out; go to the Scriptures and find out. Perhaps we may be found to be the one who is wrong.

Have you ever been wrong in understanding anything in the Bible? Or did you get it right always the first time around?

I do not doubt your salvation and praise our Lord for it. But it was the Spirit of the Lord that led each Christian to Christ. Every single believer saved was saved because the Spirit of God opened their eyes to it. I don't care if one is saved after having been in Church for 20 years. He was saved only because the Spirit of God revealed Himself to him. But, done through the witness and teaching of other believers also.

You say you don't interpret, but your intrepreting now as we are discussing this. And the warnings in Jer. 23 pertain to false prophets. Not real prophets of God, of which Jeremiah was one. So, just because there are false teachers and prophets, doesn't mean we disregard true teachers and prophets. And you have the Holy Spirit and the written Word to compare.

So, you believe what the Lord says. He says what He means. And means what He says. I believe that also. So, you believe in the literal translation of Scripture. Correct?

As to what has been written by the Lord Himself, Im not sure what you mean. The Bible?

Quantrill
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Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. I agree that we can learn many things from brothers and sisters in Christ, BUT we must test all such teachings against what is written, NOT what is interpreted because interpretations themselves must be tested against what is written. But how can we test against what is written unless WE understand what is and is not written? We ourselves must, through the power and counsel of the Holy Spirit, FIRST understand what is written in order that we can test what others teach to see if its a teaching from the Lord or not. That is why Bible study must first be about what is actually written, not what others claim is written. What others claim is written must always be tested against what actually IS written. No matter how widely it may be accepted, or how long it has been traditionally taught EVERY teaching must be tested against what is written to see if it is actually true or not. Quite a few false teachings are also the longest and most widely taught teachings.

Something you must understand with Jeremiah 23 is that in the OT the word of the Lord came to the prophets and many of their prophecies begin with "The word of the Lord came to ...". But NOW the word of the Lord has come to ALL of us - in writing. Anybody who proclaims the word of the Lord is a prophet. HOW we proclaim the word of the Lord will determine if we are true prophets of the word of the Lord or false prophets of the word of the Lord. Jeremiah 23 warns us that if we are going to declare that the Lord says this or that we had better make very certain that the word of the Lord (aka the Bible) really does SAY this or that and it is not merely an interpretation arising from our own (or somebody else's) imagination.

I do not believe in a "literal" interpretation of the Bible because the Lord does not always speak literally but uses many grammatical styles and literary devices to communicate His meaning. What I am saying is that the Lord intends the words He uses to say what He means. That is, what the Lord means is what the words HE uses say there on the page as understood grammatically, not as filtered and altered through the mind and notions of another. That is why we can test all things against what is written for it is the one and the same thing written for all of us.

naturally when I speak of the word of the Lord I speak of the 66 Book Bible, or to be more precice the words of the Prophets and Apostles in it as some of the writings are merely histories, journals, national archives / records and other such historical documents. We have no other fully authenticated and verified word of the Lord to call upon.
 
A HA! N0w I must use Shift+ Return to space the paragraphs as a simple Return does not even work now while I am writing my posts.
 
mistmann said:
Perhaps there is a misunderstanding here. I agree that we can learn many things from brothers and sisters in Christ, BUT we must test all such teachings against what is written, NOT what is interpreted because interpretations themselves must be tested against what is written. But how can we test against what is written unless WE understand what is and is not written? We ourselves must, through the power and counsel of the Holy Spirit, FIRST understand what is written in order that we can test what others teach to see if its a teaching from the Lord or not. That is why Bible study must first be about what is actually written, not what others claim is written. What others claim is written must always be tested against what actually IS written. No matter how widely it may be accepted, or how long it has been traditionally taught EVERY teaching must be tested against what is written to see if it is actually true or not. Quite a few false teachings are also the longest and most widely taught teachings.

Something you must understand with Jeremiah 23 is that in the OT the word of the Lord came to the prophets and many of their prophecies begin with "The word of the Lord came to ...". But NOW the word of the Lord has come to ALL of us - in writing. Anybody who proclaims the word of the Lord is a prophet. HOW we proclaim the word of the Lord will determine if we are true prophets of the word of the Lord or false prophets of the word of the Lord. Jeremiah 23 warns us that if we are going to declare that the Lord says this or that we had better make very certain that the word of the Lord (aka the Bible) really does SAY this or that and it is not merely an interpretation arising from our own (or somebody else's) imagination.

I do not believe in a "literal" interpretation of the Bible because the Lord does not always speak literally but uses many grammatical styles and literary devices to communicate His meaning. What I am saying is that the Lord intends the words He uses to say what He means. That is, what the Lord means is what the words HE uses say there on the page as understood grammatically, not as filtered and altered through the mind and notions of another. That is why we can test all things against what is written for it is the one and the same thing written for all of us.

naturally when I speak of the word of the Lord I speak of the 66 Book Bible, or to be more precice the words of the Prophets and Apostles in it as some of the writings are merely histories, journals, national archives / records and other such historical documents. We have no other fully authenticated and verified word of the Lord to call upon.
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I agree also. Any thing taught must be sifted by the Holy Spirit in us, and the written Word. That doesn't mean we disregard teachers or commentaries.


However, you place yourself in an impossible situation. Your sayying you must know all the Bible to be able to discern by the Spirit if what is being taught is from God or not. But, you don't know all the Bible. So where do you go? How do you learn when you don't know it all, yet can't allow human teachers because you don't know enough to discern whether or not they are false or not. Or, are you saying you know the whole Bible? That would be an equally impossible situation.

We as believers have the Holy Spirit. We have the written Word. We go to Bible classes. The Holy Spirit uses the teacher to teach us things. Somethings you may never have heard before. You may reject them. May even count them as false. Only to find out later, it is true. You just were not ready to recieve it. And that is fine. That way the Holy Spirit keeps you from error, all the while growing you and training you at His speed. In other words, we don't have to know all the Bible in order for the Holy Spirit to protect us from wrong or false teaching. And the Holy Spirit uses teachers to teach us. Just as He has used human teachers to teach you. Or are you saying its just you and God?

Well, actually you do hold to the literal interpretation of Scripture. For, what you describe is the 'literal interrpretation'. Literal interpretation is also known as the normal interpretation. It allows for metaphors, symbols, or allegories, or similes, or anything else which is normally used in writing and speaking. In other words, if it is an allegory, then we call it an allegory. But we do not interpret the Bible allegorically. We interpret it literally.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
However, you place yourself in an impossible situation. Your sayying you must know all the Bible to be able to discern by the Spirit if what is being taught is from God or not. But, you don't know all the Bible. So where do you go? How do you learn when you don't know it all, yet can't allow human teachers because you don't know enough to discern whether or not they are false or not. Or, are you saying you know the whole Bible? That would be an equally impossible situation.
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What I am saying is I know how to READ and COMPREHEND what the words do and do not *SAY*. As a parent I want my children to listen to and understand what I SAY, not reinterprete what I say to mean something different. The Lord also desires that we understand what He is SAYING, not interpret His words to mean something He did not say.

Quantrill said:
Well, actually you do hold to the literal interpretation of Scripture. For, what you describe is the 'literal interrpretation'. Literal interpretation is also known as the normal interpretation. It allows for metaphors, symbols, or allegories, or similes, or anything else which is normally used in writing and speaking. In other words, if it is an allegory, then we call it an allegory. But we do not interpret the Bible allegorically. We interpret it literally.
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The problem here is not the word "literal" but the word "interpretation". There is a vast difference between the meaning of "interpret" and "understand". To "interpret" the written word is to give it the meaning the READER thinks it should have. To "understand" the written word is to comprehend the meaning the WRITER intended it to have.

What is important is to understand the meaning the LORD intended His words to mean, not what we think they mean. That means we must NOT interpret the word of the Lord but understand the meaning of the words HE has used. So when a teacher speaks I must seek to discern if they have simply interpreted the word of the Lord to the meaning THEY have given it or if it is a comprehending of the meaning the Lord intended it to have. To do that I must be able to study, for myself, what the Lord has actually written there on the page. Again what is important is the question "does what the teacher say accord with what the Lord has actually SAID in HIS word. If what a teacher says is not what the Lord has said they teach falsely, but you can only know that if you are aware of what the Lord has and has not actually said.

To understand is to not to interpret, to interpret is to not understand.

Note I am not saying we must understand everything the Lord has said, only that we must be aware of WHAT He has and has not said in the words HE uses.
 
mistmann said:
What I am saying is I know how to READ and COMPREHEND what the words do and do not *SAY*. As a parent I want my children to listen to and understand what I SAY, not reinterprete what I say to mean something different. The Lord also desires that we understand what He is SAYING, not interpret His words to mean something He did not say.



The problem here is not the word "literal" but the word "interpretation". There is a vast difference between the meaning of "interpret" and "understand". To "interpret" the written word is to give it the meaning the READER thinks it should have. To "understand" the written word is to comprehend the meaning the WRITER intended it to have.

What is important is to understand the meaning the LORD intended His words to mean, not what we think they mean. That means we must NOT interpret the word of the Lord but understand the meaning of the words HE has used. So when a teacher speaks I must seek to discern if they have simply interpreted the word of the Lord to the meaning THEY have given it or if it is a comprehending of the meaning the Lord intended it to have. To do that I must be able to study, for myself, what the Lord has actually written there on the page. Again what is important is the question "does what the teacher say accord with what the Lord has actually SAID in HIS word. If what a teacher says is not what the Lord has said they teach falsely, but you can only know that if you are aware of what the Lord has and has not actually said.

To understand is to not to interpret, to interpret is to not understand.

Note I am not saying we must understand everything the Lord has said, only that we must be aware of WHAT He has and has not said in the words HE uses.
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Yes we are to understand. But we are to study to be able to understand. Correct? "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2Tim. 2:15 You cannot rightly divide the Word of God unless you study. Its not done by casual reading. And when you 'study' you have to have a method of interpretation.

For some reason you seem to identify 'interpretation' as wrong. You identify 'interpretation' with 'opinion'. And that is not so. Its not wrong to interpret the Bible. Its wrong to interpret it incorrectly. And you won't get to the truth of it unless you do interpret it correctly.

Again, I ask you, have you ever been wrong in your understanding of the Bible? You don't want to tell somoneone your 'intepretation'. You will tell them its your 'understanding'. Which, according to you means its the truth. So, have you ever told someone your 'understanding' and then found out you were wrong?

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
Yes we are to understand. But we are to study to be able to understand. Correct? "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2Tim. 2:15 You cannot rightly divide the Word of God unless you study. Its not done by casual reading. And when you 'study' you have to have a method of interpretation.
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Yes you have to study. But that is not the point I am making. The point I am making refers to WHAT we should be studying, and that is what the Bible actually says not just what somebody else tells us it says or how somebody else interprets it. We have to get down and study and meditate on the words the LORD has written. We must ALWAYS focus our aim on understanding what it is that the Lord has actually declared and what He has not. Whatever else we might look at we must always do the Berean thing and see if it accords with what the Lord has said. BUT we can only do that if WE understand and rightly discern what it is the Lord actually has and has not said and the only way you can do that is by earnestly studying the WORDS and SENTENCES and PARAGRAPHS of the Bible itself not the words of others.

Quantrill said:
For some reason you seem to identify 'interpretation' as wrong. You identify 'interpretation' with 'opinion'. And that is not so. Its not wrong to interpret the Bible. Its wrong to interpret it incorrectly. And you won't get to the truth of it unless you do interpret it correctly.
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It is wrong because "interpretation" is all about the meaning the READER gives to a piece of writing, not what the WRITER intended it to have. The truth lies in the meaning the WRITER of the Bible intended it to have, not the interpretations of its readers. You cannot assess the truth or otherwise of an interpretation unless you first understand the meaning the Lord Himself intended. That process is called "understanding" not "interpretation". It is the process of comprehending what it is the Lord actually has and has not declared by HIS words, not the words of others. The words of others are the "interpretations" you must test against what the Lord Himself has declared. And to do that you must first know exactly WHAT it is the Lord has and has not declared.

EVERY "interpretation" of the Bible is wrong because the moment you comprehend the actual meaning the Lord intended it to have it is no longer and interpretation but an "understanding". But ALL who understand understand the SAME thing, not different things because the Lord only ever intends ANYTHING He declares to have one and only one meaning therefore there can only ever be one and only one "understanding" even though there can be as many "interpretations" as there are readers.

Quantrill said:
Again, I ask you, have you ever been wrong in your understanding of the Bible? You don't want to tell somoneone your 'intepretation'. You will tell them its your 'understanding'. Which, according to you means its the truth. So, have you ever told someone your 'understanding' and then found out you were wrong?
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Can't remember any specifically but I have probably made a mistake or two in my lifetime, I have never professed to be infalliable. BUT it is only an error if what I have said is not in accordance with what is actually written in the Bible, not if it is not in accordance with somebody else's interpretation of what is written. But the reason I am able to minimise my errors (without taking any glory or credit from the indwelling Holy Spirit for it is He who has taught me to do this) is because I take great pains and care to ensure my understanding is in accordance whith what the Lord has and has not actually written on the pages of the Bible and also in accordance with the reality about me (truth is reality and reality is truth, therefore what actually accords with reality is the truth and what does not accord with reality is not the truth. Part of that reality is the reality of what the Bible does and does not SAY).
 
In other words, when you made a mistake in the understanding the Scritpures, you misinterpreted them yourself. It was an error because you misinterpreted them.

You don't want to use the word 'interpret', but interpret is what you do. And like everyone else, when you make a mistake, its due to your misinterpretation. Yours, not someone elses.

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
In other words, when you made a mistake in the understanding the Scritpures, you misinterpreted them yourself. It was an error because you misinterpreted them.

You don't want to use the word 'interpret', but interpret is what you do. And like everyone else, when you make a mistake, its due to your misinterpretation. Yours, not someone elses.

Quantrill
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I speak of misreading what a passage says or not picking up on something the Bible says, not misinterpreting it. We must always be very careful to not go beyond what is written or to ignore what is written. But understand that ANY meaning you give a passage that is not the meaning the Lord intended it to have is a mistake.

When reading the Bible I always try and err on the side of caution. When a passage is not clear to me I would rather profess only that I do not understand it yet than opt for an interpretation that may be wrong. When we declare what the Bible or "The word of the Lord" says says the WORDS of the Bible must actually say it.

But I am confused by your argument. How can claiming I make mistakes if I do not properly understand what is written in anyway makes it not a mistake for others to not properly understand either? That is like saying it is OK for you to exceed the speed limit because I may have on occassion exceeded it. Any mistake I make does not justify the mistakes others may make, it just means we all make mistakes. Should we not be about the task of correcting our mistakes, not trying to justify them??
 
mistmann said:
I speak of misreading what a passage says or not picking up on something the Bible says, not misinterpreting it. We must always be very careful to not go beyond what is written or to ignore what is written. But understand that ANY meaning you give a passage that is not the meaning the Lord intended it to have is a mistake.

When reading the Bible I always try and err on the side of caution. When a passage is not clear to me I would rather profess only that I do not understand it yet than opt for an interpretation that may be wrong. When we declare what the Bible or "The word of the Lord" says says the WORDS of the Bible must actually say it.

But I am confused by your argument. How can claiming I make mistakes if I do not properly understand what is written in anyway makes it not a mistake for others to not properly understand either? That is like saying it is OK for you to exceed the speed limit because I may have on occassion exceeded it. Any mistake I make does not justify the mistakes others may make, it just means we all make mistakes. Should we not be about the task of correcting our mistakes, not trying to justify them??
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You said in your post #33 that your errors are made, not because of others interpretation, but your own misreading or undestanding. So, you have based it solely on you. Not others. So if you make a mistake, its your mistake.

You say any meaning you give which is not the meaning the Lord intended, is to make a mistake. Ok. Can't argue with that. Now, how do you determine the true meaning?

Let me give an example. In studying the life of Joseph, and Christ. There are similarites. Thus, Josephs life typifies the life of Christ. Josephs life is a type of Jesus Christ. Do you agree or disagree?

Quantrill
 
Quantrill said:
You said in your post #33 that your errors are made, not because of others interpretation, but your own misreading or undestanding. So, you have based it solely on you. Not others. So if you make a mistake, its your mistake.
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I can hardly blame others for my own mistakes. When I stand before the Lord will I not be judged by my OWN works, not the works of others? "Eve made me do it", did not work for Adam, I doubt it would work for me either.
Tell me, if you make a mistake in understanding the Bible who will YOU blame? Who chooses what you will and will not believe - yourself or somebody else?:)

Quantrill said:
You say any meaning you give which is not the meaning the Lord intended, is to make a mistake. Ok. Can't argue with that. Now, how do you determine the true meaning?"
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By ensuring I understand what the words of the Bible are actually saying. It is not about what *I* think, it is about what the Bible SAYS. The Lord did not ensure HIS words were written down and preserved and then say "make of it as you will, interpret it as you want". He wrote it down so that we might know HIS will, HIS commands, HIS desires, HIS teachings, not make up our own versions of them. The test is deceptively simple - What has the Lord actually said.

Quantrill said:
Let me give an example. In studying the life of Joseph, and Christ. There are similarites. Thus, Josephs life typifies the life of Christ. Josephs life is a type of Jesus Christ. Do you agree or disagree?"
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Actually Moses is the more closely aligned, but that is a whole other discussion. But tell me, while YOU see parallels what has the Lord said about it? Has the Lord said Joseph is a type of Jesus Christ? If not, is it not just your word and opinion and not His?
 
I think this thread has gone off-topic....

If the idea is whether or not we need extra-biblical sources to help us understand the Holy Scriptures, I would say they can help, but we still need to depend on the Scriptures to verify the truth.

Paul taught and praised people for checking the Scriptures to test for truth.

If we use these extra-biblical sources apart from Sciptures, it's dangerous.

Look at Jesus' example: satan tempted him using excerpts from Scriptures, but Jesus, knowing the Scriptures, understood these quotes were taken out of context. That's why it is so important for us to depend on the Bible and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
Some cults think they are Christian, but deny basic Christian doctrines. The JW's believe Jesus is a "lesser god", but the Scriptures say Only One God....all other gods are false - therefore, they are calling Jesus a false god!

There is Only One God
ISAIAH
43:10 ....Before me there was no God, and after me there will be none
Jesus is the One God
JOHN
10:33 The Jews answered him, “...you, although being a man, make yourself God.
The Jews wanted to stone Jesus for claiming to be God.

Only serve the one true God
Luke 4:8 You shall worship the Lord Your God and serve Him only
We serve Jesus
Col 3:24 it is the Lord Christ whom you serve

Only worship the one true God
EXODUS 20:5….because I, YHWH, your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion, …
Worship Jesus
MATTHEW
28:17 When they saw him (Jesus) they worshipped him;

Every Knee will bow to God
ISAIAH
45:23 ….that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue confess…
Every Knee will bow to Jesus
PHIL
2:10-11 ..that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,...

God is the Creator of all things
ISAIAH 48:13 My own hand laid the foundations of the earth and my right hand spread out the heavens;
Jesus is the creator of all things
JOHN 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

God is the source of life
PSALMS 36:9 For by you is the source of life.
Jesus is the source of life
John 5:21 Indeed, just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whomever he wishes.

WHO IS THE FIRST AND LAST?
GOD
ISAIAH44:6 This is what YHWH has said, ... “I am the first and I am the last, and besides me there is no God.”
JESUS
REVELATION
1:17-18 ….I am the first and the Last, ….and the living one, and I became dead, but look! I am living forever and ever,... Obviously, Jesus is the one who became dead but lives forever.

Who is our Father?
Isaiah 9:6 For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.

These Scriptures are clear and easily understood. So, it is obvious those who don't understand are either spiritually blinded because they are perishing (as the Bible also clearly states) or they simply have not received the Gospel of Christ, yet.

If someone has a misconception of a particular Scripture, we can show them the truth by showing/quoting the Scriptures as Jesus did with satan. It is up to the individual and God whether or not he/she will accept or reject the truth.
 
mistmann said:
I can hardly blame others for my own mistakes. When I stand before the Lord will I not be judged by my OWN works, not the works of others? "Eve made me do it", did not work for Adam, I doubt it would work for me either.
Tell me, if you make a mistake in understanding the Bible who will YOU blame? Who chooses what you will and will not believe - yourself or somebody else?:)


By ensuring I understand what the words of the Bible are actually saying. It is not about what *I* think, it is about what the Bible SAYS. The Lord did not ensure HIS words were written down and preserved and then say "make of it as you will, interpret it as you want". He wrote it down so that we might know HIS will, HIS
commands, HIS desires, HIS teachings, not make up our own versions of them. The test is deceptively simple - What has the Lord actually said.


Actually Moses is the more closely aligned, but that is a whole other discussion. But tell me, while YOU see parallels what has the Lord said about it? Has the Lord said Joseph is a type of Jesus Christ? If not, is it not just your word and opinion and not His?
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The point in your making a mistake has to do with you rejecting any others intepretation. Your saying its you and the Holy Spirit. So any mistake is yours. Which begs the question, how did you make a mistake when its you and the Holy Spirit? Was it the Holy Spirit not being clear enough? Or was it your understanding just wasn't right?

As for me, I interpret the Scriptures literally, dispensationally, and typically. I am responsible for my interpretations. I believe this is the correct method to understanding the Scriptures.

How is Moses more closely aligned than Joseph? I don't see any statement in the Bible that says Joseph's life is a type of Jesus Christ. I believe it is however. Do you disagree?

Quantrill
 
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