Quantrill
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But, how you interpret the Scriptures will determine what you verify as truth. For example, the 1000 year millenium. Or the 7 tribulation period. When do they occur? Or do they occur?
Quantrill
When Bible Study Isn't
- Thread starter mistmann
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But, how you interpret the Scriptures will determine what you verify as truth. For example, the 1000 year millenium. Or the 7 tribulation period. When do they occur? Or do they occur?
Quantrill
There's a simple enough explanation for that.
First, our salvation is not dependent on having an exact and precise understanding of those things.
Second, these things are written as a warning for us, not as a topic we must take action on.
In contrast, there are doctrines that are essential to the Christian faith - those we need a clear understanding of and those are clearly written and explained in Scriptures. AND the saved are given understanding while the lost are allowed to misinterpret or simply ignore.
Examples of essential doctrines would be outlined in the Apostle Creed which state God created the heavens and the earth; Jesus died and rose and ascended into heaven.
Examples of things that do not effect our salvation would include discussions about whether or not one day is a literal interpretation in Genesis 1:1 or a reference to an unspecified amount of time.
I don't think anyone's salvation is at risk because they are trying top reconcile their faith with what they believe to be scientifically true.
With that in mind, I don't think people speculating on the examples you provided are important to "know"
Quantrill
Inactive
I do not understand your reasoning here. Jesus Christ died, was buried, and raised the third day. Thats all we need to know. We place faith in Christ . We are saved. Everything else, really doesn't matter how you interpret.
If thats as far as you want to go, very well.
Quantrill
I DID NOT say that is all we need to know. I said an example of essential doctrines (ie things necessary to correctly understand, as in believing it is so without necessarily understanding how it is possible) In contrast, to things that we don't have to understand, like how many angels exist or whether or not Mary had other children after Jesus, or which pre/med/post tribulation is correct.
Quantrill
Inactive
You indicated all we need to understand is the essential doctrines, which means we don't need to worry about interpreting anything else. If there is something else that we need to know, how do we interpret the Scriptures to know it? We really dont have to understand anything. We just need to believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and accept Him as our Lord and Saviour. That certainly solves the problem.
Quantrill
A discussion about Moses versus Joseph is off topic for here but if you want to set up another thread we can discuss it there if you want.
As to making mistakes if I never made a mistake I would not require the H0ly Spirit to guide and teach me would I? Remember the only one in the Bible that never made a mistake was Jesus Christ. The trick is to KNOW when you have made a mistake - and then correct it. But it is only a mistake when it is not in accordance with the word of the Lord. Therefore it is only by the word of the Lord and not by the word of another that we know whether or not we have made a mistake.
Hi Ginger,
I don't think it is quite off topic yet but am trying to prevent it going off topic.
What you said here is good.
If you don't mind Ginger I am going to use this as an example of why it is important to understand what the Bible actually does and does not say and how often traditional teachings do not accord with it.
Firstly let me say the JW teachings also are not in accordance with the Bible but are you aware that the teaching of Jesus and Jehovah being the same person is one of the heresies mentioned by the early church leader Irenaeus (a.d. 120–202.) in his book "Against Heresies"? The reason it was regarded as a heresy is because it is actually NOT in accordance with the word of the Lord. The Bible never claims Jesus is Jehovah but the Son of Jehovah. Even Jesus aknowledges Jehovah His Father is the only true God, not Himself.
John 17:1 "These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
Consider also these passages:-
1Cor 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him."
1Tim 2:5 "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;"
Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
Rev 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
1Co 15:27 "For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."
The Bible NEVER declares Jesus and Jehovah to be the same person, the SAME God, but in all instances speaks of them as two seperate persons. The reason We see the Father when we see Jesus is because Jesus does ONLY the will of His Father and is given authority to rule FOR Him. In the OT we find Him referred to not only as THE Angel of the Lord but also "THE Angel of His presence".
Isa 63:9 "In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old."
But the Bible also does not declare the Lord as the only "God" but as the only TRUE God. Consider these passages:-
Ps 82:6 "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High."
Joh 10:34 "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
We must understand that the term "god" is not a NAME but a reference to a TYPE of being, the "elohiym". It is not only used of Jehovah Himself but of the Angels and all who are called the "Sons of God". What the above passages are telling us is that the "Sons of God" are gods (elohiym) also. They are not flesh and blood human but another type of being altogether, they are "elohiym" (we translate it as "gods")
We know that the Bible declares Jesus to be the "King of Kings and Lord of Lords". HOWEVER there is another Title that is not given to Jesus but to Jehovah only - "God of Gods". (Deut 10:17, Josh 22:22, Psalms 136:2, Dan 2:47, Dan 11:36). Jesus is "god" (elohiym) but Jehovah is the god of the elohiym, the one TRUE god, creator of ALL things and the almighty god, ruler over ALL things.
The Bible does not SAY that Jesus and Jehovah are the same person but two seperate people. BUT it does declare that Jehovah has given to Jesus ALL His power and authority to rule over all things FOR Him. To BE His presence in all the universe so that if you see and obey Jesus you see and obey the Lord His FATHER, and ours.
We must be careful to test even long standing, widely accepted, teachings against the word of the Lord to see if they are actually true or not.
Wow! I'm going to retain my objection to quoting quotes in every post (I find that unnecessary and difficult to read), but I may override my objection to lengthy posts! I'm not going to post one complete passage after another, of course! I see no need for that! I have my Bible "at the ready." Those lonnnnnnng (or is it looooooong) posts, with quotations of quotations of quotations really, really wear me out. That being said, I may "unload" in some of these threads to present my irrefutable (whoa!) POV concerning scripture ! ! Is that great or what ? ? 
Hi Ginger,
I don't think it is quite off topic yet but am trying to prevent it going off topic.
What you said here is good.
I Agree.
Does the little purple guy stand for "exasperation"????
Not that Ginger needs me, but that is not what she said. I understand her completly and I agree. What we know to be saved is what is important and that is the basics.
If there is a Rapture, When it happens, Is there a Tribulation Period, When does it start, who are 144,000, who are the two witnesses, do we need to be immersed totally in water to be saved are a few examples of NON-ESSENTIALS and change from one believer to another but do not effect our salvation.
Quantrill
Inactive
In the creeds or statements of faith, you will usually find the Trinity as something to be believed. Yet, really, we are not required to believe in the Trinity to be saved.
You will find in creeds or statements of faith, that the Bible is declared to be the Word of God and is infallible and without error. Yet, really, we are not required to believe this in order to be saved.
If one rejects the Trinity, and/or believes the Bible is not infallibe and does contain errors because written by man, will their salvation in this life be affected?
The basics are not something , to me, to be satisfied with. And God was never satisfied with it either. I believe its in Heb. 5, and 1Cor.3 that Paul chides the readers for not progressing in the knowledge of Scripture. So, I have a hard time calling them non-essentials. And when learning and progressing in the knowledge of God in the Bible, you will have a method of interpretation that you use.
Heb.6:1" Therefore leaving the princiuples of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; "
How can one hope to go on to perfection if their method of interpreting Scripture is wrong or ignored?
Quantrill
If you move your cursor over any of the emoticons, you will see what they stand for.
blessings,
Lynn
Actually, Jesus DID claim to be Jehovah: Joh 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." - and the Jews knew exactly what He was saying, because they immediately took up stones to stone Him.
John also declares Him to be God: Joh 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Not "a god" as per JW teaching. This verse shows both the unity of the Godhead and the distinctions between the Persons within the Godhead.
Also compare: Isa 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord [Adonai - a name given to God alone] sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple." with Joh 12:41 " These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him." which, in context, is clearly speaking about Jesus and refers back to the Isaiah passage.
Mat 1:23 "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
Zec 12:10 [Jehovah speaking] "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced"
Rev 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
Rev 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea."
Rev 21:6 "And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely."
Rev 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last."
Why is it important? Because in order to obtain our salvation, He had to be both God and man.
He had to be man (human) because only a human could represent human kind. However, one human life can only replace one human life. If He had been only human, He could only have died for one other person. In order to take the place in judgment of every person who ever lived, and who would ever live, He had to be able to offer a life that was as great as or greater than the cumulative sum of all those lives - only God was big enough!
If we reject Christ's divinity, then the follow-through is that we also reject His ability to redeem mankind.
blessings,
Lynn
*Catholics believe Mary remained a virgin throughout her lifetime (ie "ever-virgin") even in giving birth she was still physically a virgin they claim.
Most protestants believe she had other children after Jesus.
Both groups can back up their claims using Scripture.
I say, what difference does it make? Does it change who we are in Christ? NO. Does it change who Jesus is? NO. Does it change how we are saved? NO.
The Bible (Paul to be exact) tells us not to dispute over trivial matters.
So, while I think it is fine to be interested in such matters, I think it is sinful to spend more time studying Mary, arguing over Mary, when that time could be better spent focusing on glorifying God.
*Catholics also prclaimed Mary Magdoline a whore. The Bible say nothing whatsoever about her being a prostitute, qand I find it offensive to declare gossip as fact. But I don't argue with them....much....because it is irrelevant to our faith. We do not need to know anything more about her than what the Bible clearly states.
Again, arguing over Mary Magdoline takes time that could be better spent glorifying God.
So you can see there are essential and non-essential doctrines woven into the Christian faith.
Most protestants believe she had other children after Jesus.
Both groups can back up their claims using Scripture.
I say, what difference does it make? Does it change who we are in Christ? NO. Does it change who Jesus is? NO. Does it change how we are saved? NO.
The Bible (Paul to be exact) tells us not to dispute over trivial matters.
So, while I think it is fine to be interested in such matters, I think it is sinful to spend more time studying Mary, arguing over Mary, when that time could be better spent focusing on glorifying God.
*Catholics also prclaimed Mary Magdoline a whore. The Bible say nothing whatsoever about her being a prostitute, qand I find it offensive to declare gossip as fact. But I don't argue with them....much....because it is irrelevant to our faith. We do not need to know anything more about her than what the Bible clearly states.
Again, arguing over Mary Magdoline takes time that could be better spent glorifying God.
So you can see there are essential and non-essential doctrines woven into the Christian faith.
I totally agree. Arguing / debate rarely changes anyone's opinion. WAIT! Maybe that's the reason! They have opinions rather than scripture! Egads! I'm on to something. But it will have to wait until tomorrow. Time to open my Bible, study, pray, hug the puppy, and snuggle with the love of my life! G'Nuyr .... oops .... that's G'Nite when you get your fingers on the wrong keys! 
Great comments, a blessing to me hoping to many of the participants also in this worthy FORUM.