Who would like to join me?? in going through Revelations???

The second assembly

8 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Click to expand...

Does the second assembly parallel the Assembly of the Patriarchs?

v8. Abram had a type of death and resurrection when he gave Sarai away. Isaac had a death and resurrection on the altar. Jacob had a death and resurrection when he wrestled underground with God. Joseph had a death and resurrection when he was thrown in the pit.
v9. Abraham refused to be made rich by the king of Sodom. Isaac had virtually no increase. Jacob nearly starved. Joseph was falsely accused, a bound and cast in prison, but emerged rich and a king.
v10 Abraham suffered leaving all behind. Isaac was chased around the desert while he dug wells. Jacob ran in fear of his brother, Joseph would have been killed but ended up in prison. Joseph was cast in prison. You will have tribulation of the dual-natured man. (Tribulation like Christ's). Christ left all in heaven, was virtually desolate while in the flesh, Jesus was killed and resurrected while wrestling with God, Jesus was falsely accused bound and cast in the grave and bore our sin. Jesus was made King of Kings.
v11 Since each of these had a type of death while they were alive, they each faced a second death and were not hurt.

The First Church of the Patriarchs has been redeemed!
 
One might plausibly guess that these letters to the churches are the basic sermon on the road to Emmaus as Christ outlined how all the scriptures spoke of him. I'll leave them here for a while in case someone wants to try and finish them.

I'll be happy to help with any riddles along the way that may stump you.
 
Michael Collum said:
Daniel 7:16-25 (New International Version)

16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the true meaning of all this.
"So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 'The four great beasts are four kingdoms that will rise from the earth. 18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.'
19 "Then I wanted to know the true meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the saints and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.
23 "He gave me this explanation: 'The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.

The beast in revelation represents all the beasts (the first beast is a chimera of the first three beasts in Daniel .. and gives all of its power to the Iron beast with seven heads and 10 horns) . so the beast is the kingdom that rules the world in any given time period . As president of the U.S., a country that is quite skilled in "devouring the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it" and one of the G8 nations .. Obama "might" be a "horn" but cannot be the beast .
Click to expand...



Wow! thanks for the response... I have heard too that the beast will be from Europe? Western Europe?
 
honestjeenn said:
Wow! thanks for the response... I have heard too that the beast will be from Europe? Western Europe?
Click to expand...

Well there once was an ancient god in mythology called Europa, and it was a huge beast with a woman riding on its back . so the imagery seems to line up .. but who knows?
 
The third assembly

12 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Click to expand...

Does the third assembly parallel the Israelite wilderness experience?

v12 Pergamos means height. It is he mountain where Israel met God. We also meet God in the wilderness:

Sword with two sharp edges - is the word of God\. Moses delivered the Word from the Mountain. It had penalties and promises, law and grace.

v13 Satan' seat- seat or throne in Hebrew also means hidden. The wilderness is where Satan hid to tempt Jesus, even as he tempted Israel in the desert. Israel failed but Jesus was obedient.

Antipas is a Greek word meaning 'against the Father'. Is it a coincidence that 'mara ba' (no vowels) in Hebrew also means 'rebel against the father', and it was because of the rebellion at Meribah that Moses had to die in the wilderness?

51 Because ye trespassed against me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah–Kadesh, in the wilderness of Zin; because ye sanctified me not in the midst of the children of Israel.
Click to expand...

v14 It was in the wilderness that Balaam and Balak put a stumbling block before Israel.

v15 It was in the wilderness where Israel worshiped before the golden calf.

v16 Balaam was slain by the sword, but more importantly, judgment in Israel was swift by the word (sword) of God in consuming them with earthquake, plague, etc.

v17 manna was eaten in the wilderness.

white stone - There are several pictures of the ephod where the white stone is the corner stone in a 3 x 4 pattern, I don't know if that is historical or not. The white stone is for the tribe of Zebulon meaning 'exalted'. If your name is written 'in' the stone, then it is 'in Christ. No one can know for sure if you are 'in Christ' except the one who has received it.

The First Church of the Wilderness is redeemed!
 
The fourth assembly:

18 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Click to expand...
Does the fourth assembly look like the Kingdom of David?

v18 Thyatira - "odour of affliction" David is the king of affliction. Saul began the affliction even before David became king. Even as Jesus was afflicted by Herod while he was a child. David then brought affliction upon himself by marrying the "prostitute" Bathsheba. Christ married the "prostitute" Israel, and brought her sin upon himself. God afflicts the children of David:

1Ki 11:39 And I will for this afflict the seed of David, but not for ever.
Click to expand...

Son of God - David is made the son of God:

1Sa 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son....
Click to expand...
eyes - understanding. Ears, Eyes and legs represent the hearing, seeing and walking.

like flame of fire - like God.

Ex 3:2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush:
Click to expand...
Did David have understanding like God himself? He wrote the Psalms with deep hidden pictures of Christ therein.

feet - life

Fine brass - Wise. The root for brass is the word for serpent. How was David wise like a serpent?

Mt 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Click to expand...
Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
Ps 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Pr 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pr 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.
Pr 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
Click to expand...
David's fear of the Lord made his wise in his dealings with Saul, his enemies, and those who would entrap him.

v19 works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works;

David is the model for these attributes. His first work was as a child in serving the king, and his second works as king preparing the materials for a temple to be built.

v20 Jezebel - David permitted Jezebel to harass the people of God with idolatry.

v22 All of Israel and Judah that committed idolatry got removed from the land and taken into captivity.

v23 Israel's history serves as an example for us:

1Co 10:6 Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
Click to expand...
The First Church of King David is redeemed!
 
The fifth assembly:

Since everyone is asleep, Ill whisper..

Rev 3:1 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
4 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy.
5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
6 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Click to expand...

Does this look like Israel in captivity?

Sardis means 'red'. It is the color of Adam... the earthly, and represents the flesh and sins of the flesh. Israel had 'wasted their seed in the earth' as Onan had done, and were an earthly people who thought they were alive, but were dead.

The remnant seed of the First Church of Captivity is redeemed!
 
The sixth assembly:

Rev 3:7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Click to expand...

Does this look like the time of the rebuilding of Jerusalem?

Philadelphia - Brotherly love. They began by putting away those who were not of the brethren... foreign wives and children. The door was opened by God through Cyrus, to return and rebuild Jerusalem. The New Jerusalem is mentioned as well as a place in the temple, which had to be rebuilt.

They were opposed by Jews "of the synagogue of Satan" in rebuilding the temple.

The First Church of New Jerusalem is redeemed!
 
The seventh assembly:

Rev 3:14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Click to expand...

Does this look like Israel during Jesus' time?

Garments represent works, and even as Adam and Eve were naked in the garden, even while wearing their fig leaf aprons, so the works of the Pharisees and scribes could not cover their nakedness before Jesus.

The people variously followed him and rejected him. One moment they are flocking to him, the next attempting to stone him. Are they cold or hot?

Jesus rebuked the scribes and Pharisees, not to condemn them, but because he loved them. From the wedding at Cana we discern that rather than choose to condemn them, he had chosen to provide what they lacked... wine (grace).

Jesus ascended to the throne of God and invites us to join him.

The First Church of the Cross is redeemed.
 
What does it mean?

I have shown a hidden meaning, and a historical interpretation so far.

It is the same pattern that is repeated many times in the scripture. If the pattern is repeated, say 20 times, does it speak of past, present or future?

The answer is Yes. All of creation testifies of God, and the pattern is common throughout. This is the principle of prophetic and historic recapitulation. The same story is repeated.

So what does it mean? Which is the shadow and which is the reality? Which is the type and which is the ante-type? It is really quite simple to discern.

The Catholic church claims that all the arks speak of Mary. But everything said about the arks cannot be mapped to Mary. Only incidental images apply. This is because Mary is also a shadow of Christ, so that particular shadows of Christ may incidentally look like each other, because they all look like Christ in some way. Christ is the only one that fulfills everything about them all.

So as this first part of Revelation maps the history of Israel, it also maps the life and ministry of Christ, and it may map to some future events. Which is the ante-type? Christ is. They incidentally look like each other because they all look like Christ in some way.

So early on in this thread there was a distraction about the Tribulation being past or future. There are many tribulations, but none so great as Christ's. A Holy God was made to be sin. This was so abhorrent, that in the shadows we see Moses jump back from the rod made into a serpent. We find that no one was worthy in heaven or on earth or under the earth to open the seal until the Lion had overcome his revulsion to being made to be sin. We see that he was the Son who said that he wouldn't then did.

He was one God with Father and Holy Spirit but was torn as the water was parted, the veil was torn, the rock was split. God was torn. And since the Father exists in eternity, how long is three days of separation to Him? What greater tribulation than this?

As the Lamb marries the bride... so the man leaves the Father and mother and cleaves to the bride. The Son has married! The water returns, because the word is reconciled law to grace. But the rock is not made one, the cleft remains. The veil remains torn. There is a part of that separation, Father and Son, that is not restored. Christ has married the flesh, the flesh is made one, and Christ and his bride are one.

I contend that all other tribulations are mere shadows of Christ's tribulation. Are they real tribulations? Certainly. But only as real as death is to us. Death is just a reminder of the consequences of sin, and of God's great mercy through the cross. Nothing more. Our tribulation is an opportunity to put off the flesh and glorify God in all things, as a shadow of Christ's limping side, bruised heel and withered thigh. Nothing more.

So what of a future tribulation? It is incidental to the cross. Rather than anticipate and look for the signs of the anti-Christ, Look to the cross.

This is not Gnosticism, it is not secret wisdom, it is nothing new. What was hidden in the scriptures was revealed in Christ. It is the proper focus of Christological Biblical interpretation that has been lost to popularized, man centered gospels.

So what is there to fear in the scriptures when interpreted with Christ at the center?
 
Nothing to fear Bob, just the linear reading in addition is edifying also especially when applied . so long as the two can coincide . there is nothing to fear indeed . and we are all the wiser from the conversation .
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top