Why Did God Lie?

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workmx said:
Start by providing evidence that gods exist and we can chat about the other things.
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Well for me having always been an agnostic, the first couple of times I experienced things outside of the natural order this made me begin to think outside the box of my little narrow corner of the universe.

I will give you just two of these experiences...the in fact occurred...

One night back in about 1970, about a half dozen of us were sitting around getting ready to close up this old neighborhood settlement house (a place of local activities and services to the low income community). Suddenly having already checked for stragglers we heard the shower on the second floor turn on full power. Naturally we thought perhaps some homeless person had hidden out and thinking all had gone home was getting a shower...so we all ran upstairs and started knocking on the door calling to whoever was in there. It was locked from the inside, the shower was pounding...

Now the only way out was through us (and that was not about to happen) so Al and Greg ran down to get the key...they were back in one minutes time...as far as I know only Arnold and maybe Gregory had any religious beliefs if any but the rest of us were quite agnostic/social activist types (more marxist than anything else)...as soon as Greg put the key in the door the shower turned off, we opened the door and steam billowed out, the room was hot...but totally empty...no one (visible at least) was in the room...someone or something turned the handle to full hot and then off tight but no one was in there...

On another occasion in the same place...we were in the kitchen area at lunch eating and the blender on the counter in the corner went on and proceeded through all seven speeds and then suddenly shut off..we all were quite startled...we of course assuming a power surge or something jumped up to investigate...the blender was not even plugged in...the chord was neatly wrapped and tied...we looked at each other, closed the place and left...two weeks later it burned down (no arson implied)...

This was the beginning of a long journey for me...I realized that things exist outside what I always considered the natural order...beyond the laws of physics...my whole concept of a purely material universe was shot...the whole group experienced this and to this day when we bump into each other the topic comes up...

There were other experiences I later encountered all long before I accepted the obvious reality of a spirit realm but no one could deny the super or supra-natural nature of these occurrences...

brother Paul
 
Brother Paul said:
Well for me having always been an agnostic, the first couple of times I experienced things outside of the natural order this made me begin to think outside the box of my little narrow corner of the universe.

I will give you just two of these experiences...the in fact occurred...

One night back in about 1970, about a half dozen of us were sitting around getting ready to close up this old neighborhood settlement house (a place of local activities and services to the low income community). Suddenly having already checked for stragglers we heard the shower on the second floor turn on full power. Naturally we thought perhaps some homeless person had hidden out and thinking all had gone home was getting a shower...so we all ran upstairs and started knocking on the door calling to whoever was in there. It was locked from the inside, the shower was pounding...

Now the only way out was through us (and that was not about to happen) so Al and Greg ran down to get the key...they were back in one minutes time...as far as I know only Arnold and maybe Gregory had any religious beliefs if any but the rest of us were quite agnostic/social activist types (more marxist than anything else)...as soon as Greg put the key in the door the shower turned off, we opened the door and steam billowed out, the room was hot...but totally empty...no one (visible at least) was in the room...someone or something turned the handle to full hot and then off tight but no one was in there...

On another occasion in the same place...we were in the kitchen area at lunch eating and the blender on the counter in the corner went on and proceeded through all seven speeds and then suddenly shut off..we all were quite startled...we of course assuming a power surge or something jumped up to investigate...the blender was not even plugged in...the chord was neatly wrapped and tied...we looked at each other, closed the place and left...two weeks later it burned down (no arson implied)...

This was the beginning of a long journey for me...I realized that things exist outside what I always considered the natural order...beyond the laws of physics...my whole concept of a purely material universe was shot...the whole group experienced this and to this day when we bump into each other the topic comes up...

There were other experiences I later encountered all long before I accepted the obvious reality of a spirit realm but no one could deny the super or supra-natural nature of these occurrences...

brother Paul
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Thanks. That is interesting.
 
workmx said:
So what did you assume it was?
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WE assumed nothing...trust me on this...this was far from proving to me that this God existed...it was only the beginning of my long journey into a rational logical conclusion and that conclusion was that genuine agnosticism merely lacks experience (some unwilling to look at many things objectively) and atheism is an indefensible position (resting totally on irrational and baseless assumptions)...

but???? If not that then what? I could no longer lie to myself that all that is is purely of a materialist nature...frighteningly for me, REALITY trumped indoctrination...I pro-actively sought explanations
 
Brother Paul said:
The only rational conclusion based on the empirical evidence of that which was experienced by a group of agnostics is that there is more to reality than just the physical realm...
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Thanks for sharing. I never had doubts before I was saved. I knew there were spiritual forces. I just never knew there was a good, caring God.
 
KingJ said:
Thanks for sharing. I never had doubts before I was saved. I knew there were spiritual forces. I just never knew there was a good, caring God.
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But the problem remains: How do you know?

I can assert that I know that two gods stirred the seas and made all the continents on the earth.

Does my certainty make it true?
 
Mitspa said:
I don't separate my beliefs from my identity.. I am what Gods Word says that I am...Im a sinner just like the homosexual in and of myself and in my own ability. That's why I had to go to Christ and accept His forgiveness and receive the Spirit of God, by which I am submitted to the Will of God. Im not justified by what I do but what I believe, I "believe" that God is right in that He judges us in our sin and I "believe" that God is right that He justifies us in our faith in Christ! God is right to condemn the homosexual and He is fair and just to forgive them as they admit their sin and need for His Grace in Christ. But Gods gives grace to the humble and resist the proud..as long as one claims that their sin is not sin, they are in pride! And cannot receive the grace that God would give to them.
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Absolutly true my friend!

John 8:11 is of course the key to all of this.
"........neither do I condeam thee, go, and sin no more".

A lot if not most people think they are lost because they have committed a certain sin. The athesists do not believe there is a God so then they have no problem with sin since there is no God to judge them of that sin.

Well, I have news for them and all of us! One is not lost because he is a liar or murderer or a thief or adulterer. A person does these because he is lost and does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ forgives sins. HE is the Saniour. HE died for the sins of the whole world. Any person who comes to the Lord Jeus Christ is forgiven.
 
Major said:
Absolutly true my friend!

John 8:11 is of course the key to all of this.
"........neither do I condeam thee, go, and sin no more".

A lot if not most people think they are lost because they have committed a certain sin. The athesists do not believe there is a God so then they have no problem with sin since there is no God to judge them of that sin.

Well, I have news for them and all of us! One is not lost because he is a liar or murderer or a thief or adulterer. A person does these because he is lost and does not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ forgives sins. HE is the Saniour. HE died for the sins of the whole world. Any person who comes to the Lord Jeus Christ is forgiven.
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I don't believe in sin either.
 
workmx said:
I don't believe in sin either.
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Sin is just a word for a violation of His immutable laws....these laws exist on many levels (physical, social, spiritual)...break one there is consequence (often death)...if you doubt this violate His immutable law of gravity next time you are up on your roof...
 
workmx said:
I don't believe in sin either.
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you mean you do not believe in sin against God ..
only because you have doubt to God's existence ..
because a sin is a tort .. or an offense against ..
and most certainly you can cause offense against aka a tort on whom you will if you chose to ..
 
workmx said:
But the problem remains: How do you know?

I can assert that I know that two gods stirred the seas and made all the continents on the earth.

Does my certainty make it true?
Click to expand...

You are a product of ID, that is how you know. Stop being ridiculous. ID / You existing is not the same as two gods stirring the seas.

As for those experiences of Pauls, fallen angels make themselves known to many. Go watch the exorcism of Emily Rose.
 
Brother Paul said:
Sin is just a word for a violation of His immutable laws....these laws exist on many levels (physical, social, spiritual)...break one there is consequence (often death)...if you doubt this violate His immutable law of gravity next time you are up on your roof...
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"His law"? How do you know that your god is a man?
 
goggles said:
If only understanding and love was the answer for everything.
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O....but it is.!!!!

John 13:34..........
"A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another as I have loved you, that ys also love one another".

Jesus died on the cross for the payment of all men's sin, He died a substitutionary, vicarious death for the sins of humanity. He was raised bodily from the dead and ascended by to heaven and He is coming again to take His church out of this sin cursed world.

Now, read carfully because I want you all to understand that believing those things will not convince the unsaved world outside.
The world is dying for just a little love. Jesus tells us that we should be known for our love!!!!!!

I submitt to you that atheists do not reject God per say, but instead reject what they have seen believers of God act like in front of them. Our(believers) actions have always had long term effects on those who see those actions. Instaed of LOVE they have seen hate and attacks.

The church must be careful to not become Christian cannibals.

Galatians 5:15.....
"But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another".

Unfortunately the world has passed by the church in our day. That is disturbing and distressing because the church has in it many fine and wonderful people. BUT.....the lives lived by some believers are what keeps the world away from our churches and those real believers.

Is there a cure????????? YES!...........LOVE!
 
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