Why The Rapture Must Happen!

[The Town Crier]

From TC's Post #95

This here highlights part of the problem you are having here with Christian people.....I think.
You seem to be unable to understand illustrative instruction.
I have colour and size emphasized the part of my quoted post that you might have benefited from, had you been able to understand by example.
Have you never yet even understood that Jesus sometimes taught using common everyday objects and experiences to teach about truth? Do you seriously think that heaven must actually be full of camels and needles because Jesus referred to them when teaching that rich guy that he had a heart problem to deal with?
When I mentioned the discarded clothing, I was using them to illustrate a truth. sigh

Mat 24:40. Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:41. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left.
Mat 24:42. Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
Mat 24:43. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into.
Mat 24:44. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

The time of Jesus' return sounds like a well kept secret to me.
One will be taken another left behind.....sounds like a catching up and away to to me.

Hey TC, You are right! We should read the Bible! that is where I found the truth of the secret rapture just as Jesus taught it!...I hope He didn't watch TV too.
TC, if you have a problem with the scripture I quoted.........take it up with Jesus...it is not my lack of spirituality, I'm just quoting Him.

Ok Calvin..One will be taken alright...Lets look at another part of what Jesus said shall we:

Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

Lets keep reading though...

Luk 17:34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
Luk 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Luk 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

In Matthew,Jesus says it like this...instead of bodies it's 'carcase'

Mat 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The carcases are from those who transgressed against Him:

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


Mic 4:1 But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.
Mic 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Doesn't sound like a rapture to me...I think you better quit worrying about a 'rapture' and go make sure your heart has been circumsized by the Holy Spirit. When He returns, those who are saved will be let in the gates...

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Again, quit watching movies and go live the Word of God...you will be surprised to see what happens in your life.


Sincerely T/C

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

So God is a liar and breaker of promises? If replacement theology and the claptrap and lies you are spreading is true then God is a liar and breaker of promises. If that is the case, then the whole Bible can be thrown out and we all live in fear wondering if we are going to be living for eternity with God.

Replacment theology is based on cherry picking verses to support an evil anti-Semitic agenda and to stir up hatred of Jews in Christians by branding them as "fake" and that Israel is not the true Israel but an evil man made creation that has nothing to do with ancient Israel. POPPYCOCK.

You only have to look at what is going on in the world to see that Israel is the only nation which God is now protecting 100%. Nations, organisations and individuals going against Israel are cursed, but people dont want to see that. All of the significant storms and disasters to hit the USA in past 30 odd years are a direct result of the government meddling with Israel.

Israel only had a few strips of desert , God blessed that land and life flourished, on the same day they gained thier independance again, Arab nations waged war and tried to wipe them off the face of earth, they failed, despite superior numbers and weapons. Since then many attempts to invade Israel have failed and will continue to do so.

Jews are returning in their droves as prophecised. Jews have always lived in and around Jeruslem the ancestors of the people who returned after the enslavement of Babylon. It was thier failure to repent which God punished and extened by 7 times. the thousand odd years that worked out came to an end in 1948, and right on cue, Israel became a nation in a day , again just as prophecy stated it would.

The church is not Israel, Israel is Israel, a proud nation standing against the world with God as its defender and champion. Trying to take the upper ground by trying to relegate this to cult teaching status is another evil. You can use any Bible you like, the facts are still the same, God makes a promise to Abraham and a covenant which we are seeing in effect today. God dose not break or changes promises, the covenant can not be changed, its a legally binding agreement that neither can break.

Why is it that so many supporters of the Israeli state throw out over 90% of Scripture, and then say that it is the True Israelites that are "cherry picking" verses. We call it Christian Identity, you call it racism and anti-semetism, when in fact, you have to be Semetic to even be railed against on those grounds! From a DNA standpoint, the modern 'jew' is a crossbreed mamzer, who has usurped over Jacob/Israel as the imposter tares found in Matthew!

The Jews themselves claim to be from Edom/Esau, which automatically destroys their positive connection with Israel/Jacob. I just posted enormous amounts of Scripture, (I guess that is 'cherry-picking) in another thread relating to Israel and the Jews. Look under 'is christianity under attack in your country'.

And if so many prophecies have been fulfilled by the Jew, then why is it that they aren't a monarchy that has stood forever? Why are they still familiar with their supposed "identity"?

 

[Howard Pettyjohn]

Sorry but that reminds me of the two pieces of rope that went into a 5 star restaurant but got thrown out. One took off and the other stayed outside and tied himself in a knot and frayed himself on both ends and went back in. The waiters said; Stop right there, aren't you the piece of rope that I ran out of here a while ago? Answer: No, I'm a frayed knot.
BT 82...your story was a lot longer than mine and the end result is the same...I'm afraid not.
Sounds like a speech writer for the Anti Christ who just left the DNC. Sorta gives me chills.

 

[calvin]

TC, you said " The carcases are from those who transgressed against Him:"
You really display an abysmal lack of understanding of Scripture.

In both the Matthew's Gospel and Luke's, Jesus is referring to the raptured Church being with the Son at His return along with those saints who had previously fallen asleep.
Let us take a closer look at this matter.
Luke 17:36. for example, "There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left."

No real point in inquiring about 'where' the woman that is left is.....she will be where she was.

But what about the woman who is taken? Isn't it reasonable to ask Jesus where this woman is taken? Was she taken to Jail? Was she taken to a really good diner? Was she taken to the zoo? Where?
Luke 17:37. "And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." And so, in the latter part of this Verse, Jesus answers their question. Note well, the only logical subject of their question is the woman that is taken....where is she taken? Answer..... to where the 'body is'.

Try not to rush headlong into further error here; Jesus is not saying that it is those who are left that are the ones saved.
"Mark 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven."
From V26, the 'they' can be understood to mean those who are left. The adverb rendered as 'then' would probably fit context better if it had been rendered 'thereupon' allowing immediacy of the two events.
From V27 it should be clear that all those who are gathered from all over the place......are taken from where they were, and it is any others who were in their presence that are the ones left.

Truly TC it is difficult to help you when you are seemingly blinded to any and all truth by your own spirit of self aggrandizement.
Myself and others here would love to help you out, but you need to digest what is being sent your way as food for thought at the very least, and not just further opportunity to 'grand stand' your own self image.

 

[Servant in San Jose]

You know, we talk about the "rapture" as though it's a time of physical travel.
i don't think so, as NO FLESH will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Now then, if this is the case, and the bible says it is; the bible also says, where the "carcasses" are, there the eagles/vultures are gathered together.
Let me ask this also.
Which would be easier to explain away, and which would cause people "left behind" to be more apt to
accept a "mark"?
hoards of people suddenly physically disappearing, or hoards of bodies (dead people) strewn in the streets all over the world.
Perhaps blamed on a phantom plague to which the cure is in this inoculation that can either be administered through the sinus (forehead) or the arm?

Ecc says when the silver cord is loosed (someone dies) the body goes back to the dust and the spirit goes back to God who gave it.

From the small polls i've taken, most seem to agree that it would be more fearful for them to see dead bodies than to have bodies disappear.

Just some thoughts,

Blessings,

His servant

 

[calvin]

Except that regardless of the choice of word, Eagles/Vulchures or carcass/body There is in this picture only one body; not many bodies; but many birds not just one bird.
We have some choices to make.
In both Matthew and Luke, the word used for eagles is in the plural form, thus telling us there are more than one. However in Luke 17:37 the word used is σωμα which can be either a dead or alive body, whereas in Matt 24:28 the word used is πτωμα which means a carcase. So, however slight, there is a discrepancy that we need to deal with. The point remains however that the birds are plural whereas the body whether living or not is singular.
To my understanding, the picture Jesus uses is one of several 'birds' gathering around one central body. This seems best to refer to the 'birds' (saints) being gathered together with the 'body' (Christ) or the returning saints perhaps.

1 Cor 15:51,52. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
This seems to suggest that there will be no carcases left (of the saints) at the sounding of the trumpet. If the saints of that time are changed in a flash, they will vanish to some other place be it heaven or the skies over Jerusalem or somewhere else.

 

[calvin]

From Servant in San Jose

From the small polls i've taken, most seem to agree that it would be more fearful for them to see dead bodies than to have bodies disappear.

I agree that it would be frightening to be tripping over dead bodies everywhere.
The question is though, would the Lord perpetrate a campaign of terror like that? Once the second coming happens, there is no need to scare the pants off people and drive them into the beasts loving arms. That is where there loyalties lie anyway.

 

[calvin]

My post #106 reads poorly so I am reposting it; with improvements.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Except that regardless of the choice of word, Eagles/Vultures or carcass/body There is in this picture only one body; not many bodies; but many birds not just one bird.
We have some choices to make.
In both Matthew and Luke, the word used for eagles is in the plural form, thus telling us there are more than one. However in Luke 17:37 the word used for 'body' is σωμα which can be either a dead or alive body, whereas in Matt 24:28 the word used for corpse is πτωμα which means a dead body only. So, however slight, there is a discrepancy that we need to deal with. The point remains however that the birds are plural whereas the body whether living or not is singular.
To my understanding, the picture Jesus uses is one of several 'birds' gathering around one central body. This seems best to refer to the 'birds' (saints) being gathered together with the 'body' (Christ) and/or the returning saints perhaps.

I don't believe that the context allows for the understanding that the body should necessarily be understood to represent thousands of rejects. In addition to that, if the ones taken are unsaved persons taken away for destruction, were are they taken? Where will the birds gather? Sorry, it just doesn't make any kind of sense that the ones taken are the rejects, while those left behind are the saints.

1 Cor 15:51, 52. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
This seems to suggest that there will be no corpses left (of the saints) at the sounding of the trumpet. If the saints of that time are changed in a flash, they will go to some other place be it heaven or the skies over Jerusalem or somewhere else.
Note that the saints of that day are changed, not removed from a physical body and placed in a spiritual one....they will be changed......altered.....modified......recreated. This suggests that there will be no physical/perishable body left lying around for people to trip over, the body will be changed into incorruptibility presumably one that can travel to heaven.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Sorry but that reminds me of the two pieces of rope that went into a 5 star restaurant but got thrown out. One took off and the other stayed outside and tied himself in a knot and frayed himself on both ends and went back in. The waiters said; Stop right there, aren't you the piece of rope that I ran out of here a while ago? Answer: No, I'm a frayed knot.
BT 82...your story was a lot longer than mine and the end result is the same...I'm afraid not.
Sounds like a speech writer for the Anti Christ who just left the DNC. Sorta gives me chills.

I don't expect you to hear the message brother, just love Jesus and trust in your own faith. Judge not, lest ye be judged. I only speak to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel, and no one else.

 

[The Town Crier]

My post #106 reads poorly so I am reposting it; with improvements.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Except that regardless of the choice of word, Eagles/Vultures or carcass/body There is in this picture only one body; not many bodies; but many birds not just one bird.
We have some choices to make.
In both Matthew and Luke, the word used for eagles is in the plural form, thus telling us there are more than one. However in Luke 17:37 the word used for 'body' is σωμα which can be either a dead or alive body, whereas in Matt 24:28 the word used for corpse is πτωμα which means a dead body only. So, however slight, there is a discrepancy that we need to deal with. The point remains however that the birds are plural whereas the body whether living or not is singular.
To my understanding, the picture Jesus uses is one of several 'birds' gathering around one central body. This seems best to refer to the 'birds' (saints) being gathered together with the 'body' (Christ) and/or the returning saints perhaps.

I don't believe that the context allows for the understanding that the body should necessarily be understood to represent thousands of rejects. In addition to that, if the ones taken are unsaved persons taken away for destruction, were are they taken? Where will the birds gather? Sorry, it just doesn't make any kind of sense that the ones taken are the rejects, while those left behind are the saints.

1 Cor 15:51, 52. Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.
This seems to suggest that there will be no corpses left (of the saints) at the sounding of the trumpet. If the saints of that time are changed in a flash, they will go to some other place be it heaven or the skies over Jerusalem or somewhere else.
Note that the saints of that day are changed, not removed from a physical body and placed in a spiritual one....they will be changed......altered.....modified......recreated. This suggests that there will be no physical/perishable body left lying around for people to trip over, the body will be changed into incorruptibility presumably one that can travel to heaven.

There are no words...well ya a few LOL- You are kidding right? Are you that desperate to prove your point...wow.

OK let's take it from the top...Jesus said that just as it was in the days of noah that they would be buying and selling and building and planting...until the flood came and took them away.

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
What makes you think that Jesus is going to go contrary to His own words and leave the wicked this time around?

Now for the other part to your story:

You said:

"Try not to rush headlong into further error here; Jesus is not saying that it is those who are left that are the ones saved.
"Mark 13:26 And then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
Mark 13:27 And then he will send out the angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of heaven."
From V26, the 'they' can be understood to mean those who are left. The adverb rendered as 'then' would probably fit context better if it had been rendered 'thereupon' allowing immediacy of the two events.
From V27 it should be clear that all those who are gathered from all over the place......are taken from where they were, and it is any others who were in their presence that are the ones left."

Calvin,
So you are saying that Jesus comes and raptures His people,leaves the bad and then comes back again to gather the elect? Look at the syntax of the events man. First He gathers out of His Kingdom those who offend..how hard is that to understand? Let's read the other parable He gave them for clarification:

Mat 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

First the tares go and then the rest are gathered together in the barn. The ones left are the ones going to the barn man!The wicked will be taken from among the just:

Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Mal 3:17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

When Jesus returns, the wicked will be destroyed and the righteous will be left standing and the righteous will see it

Pro 29:16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.

Psa 37:34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

Psa 37:29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.

Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

Does that sound like the wicked will be left to you? No they are going bye bye... the righteous will inherit the earth!

1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Psa 104:35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the LORD, O my soul. Praise ye the LORD.

Psa 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.

Pro 11:31 Behold, the righteous shall be recompensed in the earth: much more the wicked and the sinner.

Again, your rapture theory holds no water...Make sure your heart is right with the Lord before He returns

I'll just leave you with some of your own words...

"it is difficult to help you when you are seemingly blinded to any and all truth by your own spirit of self aggrandizement.
Myself and others here would love to help you out, but you need to digest what is being sent your way as food for thought at the very least, and not just further opportunity to 'grand stand' your own self image"


Sincerely T/C

 

[The Town Crier]

You know, we talk about the "rapture" as though it's a time of physical travel.
i don't think so, as NO FLESH will enter the kingdom of heaven.
Now then, if this is the case, and the bible says it is; the bible also says, where the "carcasses" are, there the eagles/vultures are gathered together.
Let me ask this also.
Which would be easier to explain away, and which would cause people "left behind" to be more apt to
accept a "mark"?
hoards of people suddenly physically disappearing, or hoards of bodies (dead people) strewn in the streets all over the world.
Perhaps blamed on a phantom plague to which the cure is in this inoculation that can either be administered through the sinus (forehead) or the arm?

Ecc says when the silver cord is loosed (someone dies) the body goes back to the dust and the spirit goes back to God who gave it.

From the small polls i've taken, most seem to agree that it would be more fearful for them to see dead bodies than to have bodies disappear.

Just some thoughts,

Blessings,

His servant

Hey Servant,

You said"
Which would be easier to explain away, and which would cause people "left behind" to be more apt to
accept a "mark"?

My response :
There won't be anyone 'left behind' to receive the mark...It is very clear that those in the first resurrection have to overcome the mark.


Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


For those who don' overcome it:

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:


It will be out when the harvest takes place and is already out now. Those who have the mark will be rejected ( this is the lukewarm rich group)

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.


It started in Babylon and is going around the world pretty fast ...This 'mark' is a Charagma- which means badge of servitude. Now read what the Bible says man will serve in order to understand what kind of mark this is:

Luk 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

The greek definition of 'mammon' is 'personal wealth'
So we are looking for a three digit number that controls a mans ability to buy and sell...that causes them to become servants of personal wealth instead of the Lord. Can you say credit score!

I have uploaded a PDF about the mark so you can read it in it's entirety....Its only 14 pages but it is very clear what the mark is.

Make no mistake about it...those who are in the first resurrection overcome this mark of servitude:


Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


The lender is Satan, he loves it when you sign up for a loan to fulfill your fleshy desires and you become a servant of money. Are you serving personal wealth? Are you in bondage to money and debt.? Satan’s mark will not be stamped on your body:

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Which is the same place as the Lord’s will be for those who serve Him:

Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

Do you bear the marks of the Lord Jesus ?

Gal 6:17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Luk 20:24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
Luk 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Who owns you...Caesar or God? Read the study and decide for yourself...

Have a blessed day

T/C

 

[Servant in San Jose]

I agree that it would be frightening to be tripping over dead bodies everywhere.
The question is though, would the Lord perpetrate a campaign of terror like that? Once the second coming happens, there is no need to scare the pants off people and drive them into the beasts loving arms. That is where there loyalties lie anyway.

2 Thessalonians 2:10-13
and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.



Blessings,

His servant

 

[Agricola]

Why is it that so many supporters of the Israeli state throw out over 90% of Scripture, and then say that it is the True Israelites that are "cherry picking" verses. We call it Christian Identity, you call it racism and anti-semetism, when in fact, you have to be Semetic to even be railed against on those grounds! From a DNA standpoint, the modern 'jew' is a crossbreed mamzer, who has usurped over Jacob/Israel as the imposter tares found in Matthew!

The Jews themselves claim to be from Edom/Esau, which automatically destroys their positive connection with Israel/Jacob. I just posted enormous amounts of Scripture, (I guess that is 'cherry-picking) in another thread relating to Israel and the Jews. Look under 'is christianity under attack in your country'.

And if so many prophecies have been fulfilled by the Jew, then why is it that they aren't a monarchy that has stood forever? Why are they still familiar with their supposed "identity"?

I am not throwing out 90% of scripture. No one is when it comes to Gods chosen , the Jews and Israel. Followers of the evil and wicked replacement theology which comes right out of the mouth of Satan have to make this claim along with the accusation that there are no real Jews and all Jews are fake and that the nation of Israel is not really the real Israel for the theory to fit.

Another fact is that Jews are not a race of people, lineage is traced through a family tree, if your mother is Jewish, you are a Jew, that's how its always been. Christians are not the true Israelites, that is ridiculous claim to make. Like it or not people who support this evil do have to cherry pick and go on and on and on... and on and on and on ... and on... to make thier theory work, just using a chose hundred odd verses and part verses.

The Bible is more than clear on the Jews and what has happened to them. The captivity in Babylon shows why the Jews have not ruled over their lands until 1948. Failure to repent when released resulted in the captivity period extended to 7 times , as according to the law. this came to an end in 1948 and right on cue we have Israel becoming a nation again. This is fact, I do not have to manipulate anything, however you and the other followers of Satans theology do not like this so have to pretend the nation is fake and fabricated by Zionists in order to hoodwink the population, as acknowledging otherwise will in itself bring the walls and roof crashing down, destroying the replacement lie.

Your comments about "The Jew", are derogatory in itself and shows you do hate the Jews, not surprising as anti-semtism is on the rise, follow this evil lie for too long and God will loose patience with you and curse you.

 

[xBluxTunicx82]

Again, you approach me with false accusations... Where is your scripture to support this 'fact'. I have provided mine, and am well prepared to provide even more if need be. But I will not cast pearls before swine, simply because you are doing just what scripture says that you will do, 'turn and rend me to pieces.'

If you want to debate your beliefs, I am more than welcoming you, I am asking you to do so. But if all you can do is throw railing accusations of 'racist' and 'anti semite' then I believe you are nothing more than a Jew yourself and aren't worth my time.

I thought this was a forum to discuss, not argue, our topics. In order to discuss things, you must know what you are talking about. What you think you know and what is written may be two different things. So keep that in mind.

2,520 years after the end of the Assyrian captivity brings us to, here comes the kicker, 1776. The very year that America signed the Declaration of Independance. There were 13 tribes (Joseph passed his birthright to Ephraim and Mannaseh) 13 colonies, and even 13 southern states. All understood their place as Israel. Even Thomas Jefferson wrote of us as Israel.

You seem to forget that the Jews didn't 'get' Israel back, they bought it with blood money paid by the 'guilt ridden' Americans who felt bad for a holocaust that had nothing to do with us! Even to this day the only reason they remain a country to this day is because of billions of dollars sent in foreign aid to them from the US! If it weren't for that they would collapse under their own weight... So why hasn't God given them the land, why aren't they able to sustain themselves?

 

[Agricola]

providing scripture means nothing. People can provide scripture to show all maner of things, I could probably provide scripture to prove that the moon is made of cheese.

Have a read of this, its not rocket science, I do not need hundreds of vesrse or clever arguments, its right there, in plain black and white, basic facts supported by history.


Israel was a nation in 606BC, but they yet again turned away from God, so God punished them by allowing the nation to be overrun and people enslaved. Babylon finally finished the job in 587BC and destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. The Jews were held prisoner for 70 Jewish years, 69 years in our calendar, when they released by King Cyrus the Persian King who conquered Babylon. In 537BC , they were told to return to their lands and rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem

During the enslavement by Babylon, the prophet Ezekiel comes along and gives this message and prophecy to the Jews.

. Ezekiel 4:4-6 “Now lie on your left side and place the sins of Israel on yourself. You are to bear their sins for the number of days you lie there on your side. You will bear Israel’s sins for 390 days – one day for each year of their sin. After that, turn over and lie on your right side for 40 days – one day for each year of Judah’s sin.”
.
God is basically saying, you will now be punished for 430 biblical (Jewish) years, and you will not have a country or nation again until this time passes however, as you already been enslaved, for 70 years, this is reduced to 360 years, and you must repent for all your sins. Disaster, the Jews who returned in 537BC did not do this.

So according to the prophecy, Israel should have emerged as a nation in 176 BC, but they did not, they were continually occupied and ruled over by Persians, Greeks and Romans, finally in AD70 the Romans destroyed the Temple and scattered the Jewish population and put most into slavery around the Empire.

So what went wrong? Well if you look in Leviticus you get the idea that if Gods chosen went against him, he would punish them 7 times over.

26:18 “And if in spite of this, you still disobey me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over.”

26:21“If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins.”

26:23-24“And if you fail to learn a lesson from this and continue your hostility toward me, then I myself will be hostile toward you, and I will personally strike you seven times over for your sins.”

26;27-28“If after this you still refuse to listen and still remain hostile toward me, then I will give full vent to my hostility. I will punish you seven times over for your sins.”

The punishment for disobeying the order to repent in 537BC resulted in a new punishment and increase of the punishment of being enslaved and not able to have a nation, by 7 times, which now increases the time from 360 years to 2520 years.

This works out to end in 1948, remember our calendar changed many times over history where as the Jewish stays constant.


Co-incidence, well of course countless people will say it is, and come up with all the usual arguments that its been changed to make it fit, but when was it changed and how? Its impossible to doctor the scripture or dates to make this work, as we are only talking about 1948, and the originals of these Hebrew scriptures go back thousands of years!

There are single verses in various places which also give the account of Birth of Israel in a day, but to be honest, they are so heavy with metaphors like most prophecy is, that most people just have a field day mocking it, this on other hand is simple maths backed up by historical fact.

Edit: PLease note the link to the calendar still worked, but the application has changed and is not working the same as when I first used it. Anyway yhe point is still same, the dates work out to the year.

 

[Agricola]

2,520 years after the end of the Assyrian captivity brings us to, here comes the kicker, 1776. The very year that America signed the Declaration of Independance. There were 13 tribes (Joseph passed his birthright to Ephraim and Mannaseh) 13 colonies, and even 13 southern states. All understood their place as Israel. Even Thomas Jefferson wrote of us as Israel.

Its easy to manipulate dates and turn them into facts you have read so many lies you are unable to see the truth. Adding 2520 years to the The Assyrian captivity may well come out at the US independance, but unfortunately, the 2520 years punishment was handed out in 537BC and the Babylonian captivity, not the Assyrian in 740BC. Where do you get the 2520 years punishment from? I got mine from Ezekiel, see my previous post, anyone can see the 2520 years is from Babylon, not Assyrian, Babylon times puts the date at 1948.

America is not special anyway, another false teaching , America is nothing to God, just as all other nations are nothing, apart from Israel of course. The USA will fall soon, there is no mention of the USA in prophecy which shows it will fall, The UK used to be like America, but GOd brought our nation down to nothing for the leaders disobeidnece and rejection, just as the US leaders are doing now.

 

[The Town Crier]

Whats the difference between an Israelite and a Christian-only one thing...The Holy Spirit. Which is available to anyone who asks for it. However, Israel is blind and has not accepted Him. Jesus will reveal Himself to them in His time. For those who are calling themselves Christians however, you are saying that the Holy Spirit is in you and that you serve Him. Do you? Look at your life...does it have the fruits of the Holy Spirit? Or are you still a Carnal Christian...living for your flesh. You see..all of Israel will be saved.

But those professing Christians who call Him Lord but don't really have His spirit are going to be cast away.

Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.


1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Doesn't matter if you say you know Him..The demons do too! Is He in your heart? Does He know you! Don't worry about who is Israel and a Jew, pray for everyone..including your enemies! And test yourself daily to make sure you are in the faith.

Sincerely T/C

 

[The Town Crier]

Its easy to manipulate dates and turn them into facts you have read so many lies you are unable to see the truth. Adding 2520 years to the The Assyrian captivity may well come out at the US independance, but unfortunately, the 2520 years punishment was handed out in 537BC and the Babylonian captivity, not the Assyrian in 740BC. Where do you get the 2520 years punishment from? I got mine from Ezekiel, see my previous post, anyone can see the 2520 years is from Babylon, not Assyrian, Babylon times puts the date at 1948.

America is not special anyway, another false teaching , America is nothing to God, just as all other nations are nothing, apart from Israel of course. The USA will fall soon, there is no mention of the USA in prophecy which shows it will fall, The UK used to be like America, but GOd brought our nation down to nothing for the leaders disobeidnece and rejection, just as the US leaders are doing now.

America is Babylon agricola



The Bible says that just before the return of Jesus Christ, the world will be under the influence of a nation called Babylon; Babylon will have a great military, live a rich lifestyle, influence the kings of the earth, is full of idols, has polluted the world with wicked devices and will have ‘her throne’ taken away by Jesus when He returns. The Bible describes Babylon as a land of many peoples and tongues...A melting pot of nationalities. ‘She’ is known for musicians and craftsman and is full of ‘storehouses’. End times Babylon is a nation full of natural resources, livestock/bullocks, abundant wildlife, timber, and rivers. She is bordered by waters, and ‘she’ becomes a harlot with the merchants of the world; buying, selling, and trading her heritage away to other countries. She creates wicked devices and sins against God. She is full of sorcery and enchantments and she pollutes her lands. Christians and Jews live within her borders. End times Babylon is a proud nation that says she will stand forever. In the last days, her leaders become confounded and are unable to govern. She becomes just like Sodom and Gomorrah... Does any of that sound familiar? End Times Babylon is also where the Mark of the Beast comes from. The United States fits the description of Babylon in every way… Look at a line by line comparison: (All verses are from the KJV) The version they use on this site changes too many words. Go look at an older bible version...

Babylon sits as a lady:

Isa 47:7 And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it

*The USA is called Lady Liberty and has the Statue of Liberty



Babylon exalts itself as an Eagle and makes its nest in the stars

Oba 1:4 Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.

*The eagle is the national symbol of the USA and Neil Armstrong quoted that “The Eagle has landed”.


Babylon is fat as a heifer:

Jer 50:11 Because ye were glad, because ye rejoiced, O ye destroyers of mine heritage, because ye are grown fat as the heifer at grass, and bellow as bulls;

*The USA has the highest obesity rating on the planet


Babylon has a ‘mother’.

Jer 50:12 Your mother shall be sore confounded; she that bare you shall be ashamed: behold, the hindermost of the nations shall be a wilderness, a dry land, and a desert.

*The USA was born out of Great Britain.


Babylon is ‘the Hammer of the whole Earth’:

Jer 50:23 How is the hammer of the whole earth cut asunder and broken! how is Babylon become a desolation among the nations!

*The USA is called by the same name and is the world’s policeman.


Babylon is full of graven images, idols and droughts are on ‘her’ waters:

Jer 50:38 A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols.

*The USA idolizes Hollywood, sports teams, houses, automobiles, apparel, technology, musicians, animals, holidays, and money.(and is currently experiencing severe droughts)

Babylon dwells on many waters, is abundant in treasure, and covetous:

Jer 51:13 O thou that dwellest upon many waters, abundant in treasures, thine end is come, and the measure of thy covetousness.

*The USA has a business, financial, and diplomatic/ political presence on every continent and the people are highly covetous of their possessions


Babylon mounts up to heaven and fortifies her strength:

Jer 51:53 Though Babylon should mount up to heaven, and though she should fortify the height of her strength, yet from me shall spoilers come unto her, saith the LORD.

*The USA has NASA and the world’s largest military occupying the entire earth.



the whole world is under the influence of ‘her’:

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

* The whole world is currently under the influence of the USA financially or militarily.


Babylon lives luxuriously, the merchants of the earth are made rich by her, and the merchandise is shipped in from overseas.

Rev 18:11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
Rev 18:12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,
Rev 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.
Rev 18:14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.
Rev 18:15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,
Rev 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!
Rev 18:17 For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,
Rev 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!
Rev 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.


*The USA has the richest lifestyle of any nation on Earth, most of the merchandise is made overseas and brought in by ship, and all of the merchants of the earth are made rich through trade and the stock market.



There is just some of the ways the USA fits the exact description of End Times Babylon. The Bible says that when Jesus returns, Babylon will be put into darkness and will be judged with plagues because she is like Sodom and Gomorrah. Are you ready for His return…Are you sure? Are you living in Babylon? To find out what the Bible says about End Times Babylon, what happens to the lukewarm church, why there can’t be rapture, overcoming the Mark of the Beast, and what happens the Day Jesus Christ returns to Earth, go to www.ThePowerofGraceMinistries.com to see why only the power of God’s Grace can save you when that day comes! Do you have true Grace?

T/C

 

[Agricola]

This is a prime example of taking scripture to fit an agenda, you are simply looking to make verses fit and find any old reason to do so. All these examples you give totally miss what the Verses really mean.

Eagles for example, America has an Eagle as its national symbol, So what, so do these nations, I am sure they can make an eqaully valid claim to that you do about America.

Germany, Indonesia, Mexico, Panama, Philipines, Scotland, South Sudan, Spain, Zambia and Zimbabwe

Secondly with Eagles, there are hundred of species of Eagle. Your assumption that the Obadiah 1:4 speaks about America is pathetic at best, for starters, I have shown eagle is such a general thing, what eagle? If the eagel was to be a nation surely it would be more specific as to the type of Eagle, the symbol of America, the Bald Eagle can only be found in the USA, prophets in Holy Lands would have seen things like Golden Eagles, not Bald Eagles.

I
The mother, clutching at straws again, any entity or person can claim to have a mother of some sorts.
the Hammer of the whole Earth’- again shoehorning things into place, America is not the most powerful nation on earth and is not that much of an enforcer, meddling for oil yes, but the UN do more to police the world than the US.

Jeremiah 50:11 says Babylon is fat as a heifer: *The USA has the highest obesity rating on the planet

Very Creative, but the fatness has anything to do with body size.

Jeremiah 50:38 says that Babylon is full of graven images, idols and droughts are on ‘her’ waters: *The USA idolizes Hollywood, sports teams, houses, automobiles, apparel, technology, musicians, animals, holidays, and money.(and is currently experiencing severe droughts)

You are getting very desperate to refer to this. This can also be applicable for many nations on the earth, Australia for example.

Jeremiah 51:53 says that Babylon mounts up to heaven and fortifies her strength: *The USA has NASA and the world’s largest military occupying the entire earth.

you really are desperate now. Other nations and agencies have space programme and AS I pointed out Other nations are not that different in size and strength to the USA

Revelation 14:8 says that the whole world is under the influence of ‘her’: * The whole world is currently under the influence of the USA financially or militarily.

Only a diehard patriot with a blindfold on will make this claim, others see things in a different light. I can not see that the middle east and Asia are under the influence of the USA financially or military , infact USA is scared stiff of China and is pandering to Chinas will as China can bankrupt the USA overnight if Chinese regime wanted to. This is mainly down to buying all the regions oil promissory notes, cash those in and the USA goes into deepest recession that makes the great depression look like an economic boom.

Revelation 18:11-19 says Babylon lives luxuriously, the merchants of the earth are made rich by her, and the merchandise is shipped in from overseas. *The USA has the richest lifestyle of any nation on Earth, most of the merchandise is made overseas and brought in by ship, and all of the merchants of the earth are made rich through trade and the stock market.

Tell that to the poor and homeless of your nation. See how that falls flat already. This of course can be said for many other nations as well. Its not just the exclusivity of the USA

Sorry TC, but your claims are a joke and are more leaky than a sieve in a force 9 storm in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

 

[The Town Crier]

Agricola...this coming from someone who believes in a 'rapture'...If you believe in that, why would I even begin to think you would recognize anything else. No worries, I won't trouble you with anymore 'theories'

Sincerely
T/C