You must be asking the Major but I know that I can't grow enough beard to hide mine.
Why The Rapture Must Happen!
- Thread starter JeremiahD84
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You must be asking the Major but I know that I can't grow enough beard to hide mine.
Yes sir it is! Thanks for thinking of the ole Major.
You are right on in yur comments Howard. Isn't it amazing how all the pieces fit together when they are placed in the right place. You never have to "force" or even explain them. They just fit perfectly!
I don't know about you but there is not enough hair in the world to cover my flab!
My brother T/C has done a lot of work to post many Scriptures as the basis of his opinion that there is NO RAPTURE.
I am not going to argue the point but I thought I would try and give the proper explination of the verses he used.
Here is his comment................
They didn't need a rapture, and neither will we! If we are real Christians, we will endure till the end!
Here are the verses to support it......
Jas 1:12
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
Well of course that is correct, BUT it does NOT speak to a Rapture event. Many people look on tragedy as a curse from God. Look a Jobs friends. Trials are, however, the means through which God's blessings can come. One's endurance in and victory over trials will bring the blessings of God into our lives. We all face trials every day of our lives and the Lord wants us to grow and mature in the situation we are in and in that way we can help others who may find themselves in such a place.
1Pe 1:7
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".
Again.....there is nothing here to use as a basis for saying there is NO Rapture. Peter is telling us that Christ is our HOPE and as a Christian we should be looking for His expected return. We as Christians do not work for this hope, for it is a part of his spiritual birthright as a believer. We are born again (John 3:5) into this living hope.
Here is Peters thrust......Until Christ does return, the believer must go through testing because a faith that cannot be tested cannot be trusted.Verse 7 then is actually comparing the trials of our faith to the testing of gold. The suffering we endure here will result in more glory when Christ does come again.
2Ti 4:1
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom".
Nope. I do not see anything here that rejects the Rapture. Paul is telling Timothy to share the Word of God with others. We must receive before we can transmit. So important was the preaching of the Word of God to Paul that he gave Timmy a "military command"----to keep on preaching the Word.
2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
"Preach" implies KNOWING the Word. Rightly dividing it and making it understandable and applicable to the lives of others. Preaching is the God-ordained means to prevent defection from the truth. Before one can teach, he must first be a student and if we can not learn we canot grow. Now if there anything here which can be used to disclaim the Rapture?? NO!
2Ti 4:3
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears".
Now here is the answer to WHY timothy was to give out the Word of God. "The time will come" and the time has come. Many people do not want sound doctrine but instead they want intertainment. People tell people what they want to hear NOT what they need to here! My experience is that those who teach error, do so because they simply do not have a relationship with Jesus as their Savior. What they know tends to give them the glory but when we get saved, all the glory goes to God not to us.
Does any of that dismeiss the Rapture theology. I think not.
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
When the truth is ignored and false doctrine taught the result is obviouse and Paul thus warned Tim. This verse tells us that "itching ears" will soon become DEAF ears as people turn away from the truth and accept and believe man-made fables. WE ARE THERE! Does this somehow dismiss the teaching of a Rapture. I say again NO!
T/C then says..........
The rapture is a fable...Those who don't endure will fall away when tried.
As you can now clearly see, T/C certainly has the right and ability to say what he thinks and in fact I served this country in the Army so that he would be able to say what he believes. He has done that very well I might add. BUT, the fact is that NONE of the verses he uses reject, condemn, or in any way dismiss the Rapture theology we call the "Pre-tribulation Rapture".
It is just not there. I understand the need to make it appear to be in those verses, but that, as you can see is just not the case.
I am not going to argue the point but I thought I would try and give the proper explination of the verses he used.
Here is his comment................
They didn't need a rapture, and neither will we! If we are real Christians, we will endure till the end!
Here are the verses to support it......
Jas 1:12
"Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him."
Well of course that is correct, BUT it does NOT speak to a Rapture event. Many people look on tragedy as a curse from God. Look a Jobs friends. Trials are, however, the means through which God's blessings can come. One's endurance in and victory over trials will bring the blessings of God into our lives. We all face trials every day of our lives and the Lord wants us to grow and mature in the situation we are in and in that way we can help others who may find themselves in such a place.
1Pe 1:7
"That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ".
Again.....there is nothing here to use as a basis for saying there is NO Rapture. Peter is telling us that Christ is our HOPE and as a Christian we should be looking for His expected return. We as Christians do not work for this hope, for it is a part of his spiritual birthright as a believer. We are born again (John 3:5) into this living hope.
Here is Peters thrust......Until Christ does return, the believer must go through testing because a faith that cannot be tested cannot be trusted.Verse 7 then is actually comparing the trials of our faith to the testing of gold. The suffering we endure here will result in more glory when Christ does come again.
2Ti 4:1
"I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom".
Nope. I do not see anything here that rejects the Rapture. Paul is telling Timothy to share the Word of God with others. We must receive before we can transmit. So important was the preaching of the Word of God to Paul that he gave Timmy a "military command"----to keep on preaching the Word.
2Ti 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
"Preach" implies KNOWING the Word. Rightly dividing it and making it understandable and applicable to the lives of others. Preaching is the God-ordained means to prevent defection from the truth. Before one can teach, he must first be a student and if we can not learn we canot grow. Now if there anything here which can be used to disclaim the Rapture?? NO!
2Ti 4:3
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears".
Now here is the answer to WHY timothy was to give out the Word of God. "The time will come" and the time has come. Many people do not want sound doctrine but instead they want intertainment. People tell people what they want to hear NOT what they need to here! My experience is that those who teach error, do so because they simply do not have a relationship with Jesus as their Savior. What they know tends to give them the glory but when we get saved, all the glory goes to God not to us.
Does any of that dismeiss the Rapture theology. I think not.
2Ti 4:4
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
When the truth is ignored and false doctrine taught the result is obviouse and Paul thus warned Tim. This verse tells us that "itching ears" will soon become DEAF ears as people turn away from the truth and accept and believe man-made fables. WE ARE THERE! Does this somehow dismiss the teaching of a Rapture. I say again NO!
T/C then says..........
The rapture is a fable...Those who don't endure will fall away when tried.
As you can now clearly see, T/C certainly has the right and ability to say what he thinks and in fact I served this country in the Army so that he would be able to say what he believes. He has done that very well I might add. BUT, the fact is that NONE of the verses he uses reject, condemn, or in any way dismiss the Rapture theology we call the "Pre-tribulation Rapture".
It is just not there. I understand the need to make it appear to be in those verses, but that, as you can see is just not the case.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Howard, The 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled...The 70th week is the prophecy of the coming messiah who would' make a new covenant with the people and destroy the temple. He would confirm it with many...Jesus did exactly that. His ministry was 3 1/2 years and then He was cut off. He said that the temple would be desolate until the consummation (the wedding ) and that decreed would be poured on the desolate
the Holy Spirit being poured out)Even those who pierced Him will see Him when He returns to rule for a thousand years.
Here, read about it and what happens the Day the Lord returns ( I attached a PDF for you to read)
God Bless
T/C
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Howard, The 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled...The 70th week is the prophecy of the coming messiah who would' make a new covenant with the people and destroy the temple. He would confirm it with many...Jesus did exactly that. His ministry was 3 1/2 years and then He was cut off. He said that the temple would be desolate until the consummation (the wedding ) and that decreed would be poured on the desolate
the Holy Spirit being poured out)Even those who pierced Him will see Him when He returns to rule for a thousand years.Here, read about it and what happens the Day the Lord returns ( I attached a PDF for you to read)
God Bless
T/C
You are wrong major....I asked you to explain how your rapture theory happens before the trumpets are handed out considering that the tribulation is over at the fifth seal, the day of the Lord starts at the sixth seal and the seventh seal is when the trumpets are handed out. You can't. You don't have an explanation for it and you keep skirting around that little fact by bringing up other stuff. Answer the question please. How do you get raptured before the trumpets are handed out when Paul Himself said that at the LAST trumpet this catching away would happen.
T/C
oh one other thing...my right to preach the gospel is given to me by God, not by your military excursion...My Dad is a Vietnam vet and be sure even he knows that my rights are given to me by God no matter where in this world I reside or if it kills me. Give the Lord His due reverence...He is why I can do what I do.
T/C
T/C
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I agree with you that we all have certain rights given to us by God. You and I also have rights given to us through the sacrifice of people like your Dad who fought for this land. All that goes without saying becaus eI have no clue what you are referring to.
All I did was to explain the meaning of the verses you used to dis-allow the Rapture. What you used had nothing to do with the Rapture whatsoever.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Howard, The 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled...The 70th week is the prophecy of the coming messiah who would' make a new covenant with the people and destroy the temple. He would confirm it with many...Jesus did exactly that. His ministry was 3 1/2 years and then He was cut off. He said that the temple would be desolate until the consummation (the wedding ) and that decreed would be poured on the desolate
Here, read about it and what happens the Day the Lord returns ( I attached a PDF for you to read)
God Bless
T/C
The 483 years were completed from the day of the decree that King Cyrus gave Nehemiah, until the Messiah died on the Cross. But it was said to be 490 years. That leaves us with 7 more years. Well, since God stopped dealing with the Jews and took in the Gentiles the 7 years won't take place until the last Gentile has been born into God's plan and the calling of the Lord for the saved. At that time the seven years begin. It is a significant time lapse but God did it that way and that is how it will be. Now go to Daniel 9:27 that's when a gob of Jews are going to finally realize how hard headed they are....were...whatever. Half way thru this mess God is going to ...well you know. Discussions about the end times sure can get lengthy. Kinda like the Majors beard. Maybe that is where the word "lengthy" came from. This is a story about the longest 490 years on earth. Me thinks.
Those who can read Daniel and fit it together easily is prolly a whipper snapper at crossword puzzles.
I can't grasp it that well. Takes me a long time. That's why I didn't make it to major. Just a lowly drill sergeant.
I can't grasp it that well. Takes me a long time. That's why I didn't make it to major. Just a lowly drill sergeant.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
Howard, The 70th week of Daniel has been fulfilled...The 70th week is the prophecy of the coming messiah who would' make a new covenant with the people and destroy the temple. He would confirm it with many...Jesus did exactly that. His ministry was 3 1/2 years and then He was cut off. He said that the temple would be desolate until the consummation (the wedding ) and that decreed would be poured on the desolate
Here, read about it and what happens the Day the Lord returns ( I attached a PDF for you to read)
God Bless
T/C
Of course the idea that the 70th week of Daniel has taken place is the 'PRETERIST" position.
This is why there has been so much contention lately over this question.
The preterist interpretation of Scripture regards the book of Revelation as a symbolic picture of early church conflicts, not a description of what will occur in the end times. Preterism denies the future prophetic quality of most of the book of Revelation. In varying degrees, preterism combines the allegorical and symbolic interpretation with the concept that Revelation does not deal with specific future events. The preterist movement essentially teaches that all the end-times prophecies of the New Testament were fulfilled in A.D. 70 when the Romans attacked and destroyed Jerusalem and Israel and those of Daniel have already taken place.
This of course leads to a very extreme position of escotology and the end result is that prophecy has to be FORCED into the Biblical chronological order instead of FITTING perfectly as it is written.
How is Howard today? Well I hope.
Just something you did not know, but I use Major because it is my name, not a rank.
Your thinking is exactly Biblically correct.
Well, I wondered about that. Bet I am not the first one to make that mistake. I guess what brought it out to me was when you said you were in the Army.
Thank you Major. I really do try to be correct if I am posting scripture and back ups for it. It was especially hard to get it when the first 483 years of 490 happened before Christ up to his death and resurrection and the last 7 years of it haven't happened yet. Those cotton-pickin Jews . No wonder God made them his chosen people...He is proving to us that he can love everyone. And...we seldom ever hear from the pulpit anything about the fulfillment of the Gentile. I suppose that means He has had enough of us too.
You are so right. When I was in the Army, you can not begin to imagine the confusion it created.
You said:
As you can now clearly see, T/C certainly has the right and ability to say what he thinks and in fact I served this country in the Army so that he would be able to say what he believes. He has done that very well I might add. BUT, the fact is that NONE of the verses he uses reject, condemn, or in any way dismiss the Rapture theology we call the "Pre-tribulation Rapture".
That is why I responded that God gave me those rights not you or anyone else.
Above that I asked you a question now for the third time....How is it that you are caught up before the tribulation when the trumpets are not handed out until the seventh seal-which is AFTER thew tribulation and those from it are revealed. You can't use the 'last trumpet' scriptures for a 'pre trumpet' catching away...that's all I am sayin'. Your rapture theory doesn't hold water.
T/C
First of all, I am not a 'preterist and don't even care what they think. Revelation is all about what started when Jesus left and will happen when He returns. Some of Revelation has been in the works since Jesus left...But I would say that most of it is taking place right now before our very eyes. Tribulation has been going on since He left, and will end when the last of the saints is taken in the harvest. Then He will return to judge and rule for a thousand years. The saints are in the first resurrection, They are blessed and Holy:
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
They will judge the world with Him:
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
1Co 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
After the thousand years the rest will be resurrected and given their sentence:
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
This is the general resurrection when the dead will be raised at the last trumpet. This is when those who remain will receive their immortal bodies.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I don't know about you, but when He comes back to reign, I want to be ready and be let in the gate and escape the time of judgment:
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
There is no rapture...He is coming back here to reign! His tabernacle will be among men:
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
Rev 21:10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
We who are worthy will be let in the gate to the city and wont have to suffer through the judgment! Many will be called workers of iniquity because they were never really converted and their good deeds are works: They will be turned away...
They are not wise:
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
They are foolish:
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Remember the 'wise and foolish virgins:
Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Those who have bought into fables like the false 'seventieth week of Daniel' will be outside Jerusalem claiming it's the 'antichrist and will deny their Lord. Some will know it is Him but will be turned away anyway because they don't have the Holy Spirit.. that spirit of promise the down payment until His return:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Grace is the Holy Spirit my friends:
If He is in your heart He will not turn you away. But if you are foolish, you are not getting in.
The deception is bad...Please consider the things you have believed and be ready when the sky peels back:
Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
The scriptures are all consistent with what is going to happen folks, there is no rapture.
Be a wise virgin, not a foolish one and be saved:
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan 12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
Sincerely T/C
The Rapture will remove the Church, then there will be a 7 year Tribulation Period. Christ will come at Armageddon to judge and to make war. Then He will rule here on the earth for 1000 years. Then will come the New Earth and eternity.
The Scriptures are all contextual and consistant with God's plan. I am sorry, but it is clear to me.
Bless you as you continue to study.
The Scriptures are all contextual and consistant with God's plan. I am sorry, but it is clear to me.
Bless you as you continue to study.
I shall not respond to all the verses T/C has once again posted as again, they have nothing to do with the Rapture.
Each one must be considered in the "context" of their writing.
I would however speak to T/C's comment of......................
1). "Grace is the Holy Spirit my friends:
2). If He is in your heart He will not turn you away. But if you are foolish, you are not getting in.
3). The deception is bad...Please consider the things you have believed and be ready when the sky peels back:".
1. Grace IS NOT the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity.
Grace is God's unmerited favor - His goodness toward those who have no claim on, nor reason to expect, divine favor. The principal manifestation of God's grace has heen in the form of a gift. We think the apostle meant that salvation is "the gift of God," or, as emphatically put in the Greek, "of God is it the gift." Salvation is not our achievement, but it is a gift from God. That truth is made stronger by contrast. It is 'not of ourselves' and "not of works." Salvation is indeed the most extraordinary expression of God's grace.
2. We will NOT be rejected because we are "foolish".
First of all, any one who places faith in Christ for the remission of their sins is SAVED. So then because He is in us as T/C said, we are IN FACT GETTING IN. Heaven is there for the believer even though he may be foolish in some things.
How many of us were foolish and married the wrong person?
How many of us were foolish and acceptedf a job that we knew was wrong for us?
How many of us were foolish and went to that bar after work when we knew that a certain woman would there?
We will be rejected by the Lord Jesus Christ beacuse of UNBELIEF, not foolishness.
We are all sinners saved by "grace".
Ephesians 2:1-13
'And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince ofthe power of the air, ofthe spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches in His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh,...were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers in the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. ".
3). Deception is bad!!!
Now that is a very true observation.
Matt. 24:24...........
"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."
T/C. I AM READY. I have been ready now for almost 50 years. My eternal salvation does not rest on the rejection of the Rapture my dear friend. That is simply a wrong conclusion.
My salvation rests completely in my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ plus NOTHING!!!!
May the Lord bless you as you continue to study.
Each one must be considered in the "context" of their writing.
I would however speak to T/C's comment of......................
1). "Grace is the Holy Spirit my friends:
2). If He is in your heart He will not turn you away. But if you are foolish, you are not getting in.
3). The deception is bad...Please consider the things you have believed and be ready when the sky peels back:".
1. Grace IS NOT the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the 3rd person of the Trinity.
Grace is God's unmerited favor - His goodness toward those who have no claim on, nor reason to expect, divine favor. The principal manifestation of God's grace has heen in the form of a gift. We think the apostle meant that salvation is "the gift of God," or, as emphatically put in the Greek, "of God is it the gift." Salvation is not our achievement, but it is a gift from God. That truth is made stronger by contrast. It is 'not of ourselves' and "not of works." Salvation is indeed the most extraordinary expression of God's grace.
2. We will NOT be rejected because we are "foolish".
First of all, any one who places faith in Christ for the remission of their sins is SAVED. So then because He is in us as T/C said, we are IN FACT GETTING IN. Heaven is there for the believer even though he may be foolish in some things.
How many of us were foolish and married the wrong person?
How many of us were foolish and acceptedf a job that we knew was wrong for us?
How many of us were foolish and went to that bar after work when we knew that a certain woman would there?
We will be rejected by the Lord Jesus Christ beacuse of UNBELIEF, not foolishness.
We are all sinners saved by "grace".
Ephesians 2:1-13
'And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince ofthe power of the air, ofthe spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus, in order that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches in His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Therefore remember, that formerly you, the Gentiles in the flesh,...were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers in the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. ".
3). Deception is bad!!!
Now that is a very true observation.
Matt. 24:24...........
"For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect."
T/C. I AM READY. I have been ready now for almost 50 years. My eternal salvation does not rest on the rejection of the Rapture my dear friend. That is simply a wrong conclusion.
My salvation rests completely in my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ plus NOTHING!!!!
May the Lord bless you as you continue to study.
Hello again T/C.
It seems to me that you missed the point I was trying to make. Not only myself......but millions of men and women have served this country so as to keep the "Constitutional" right of free speech available to all Americans.
Of course God gave you that gift. I certainly did not and neither did anyone else. BUT all those who have served this country in the military has allowed you and the ability to speek freely. People all over this world DO NOT have that gift. Go to any Muslim county, walk to a street corner and begin to preach the gosple of the Lord Jesus Christ and see how long it takes before you are either locked up or killed. That is a fact.
Now, as for asking me 3 times about the 7th seal.
It seems that you have misunderstood the Scriptures. The Rapture is WHEN God says it will take place. The whole idea is that God will deliver the church FROM Tribulation. The Seventh Seal has nothing to do with the Rapture whatsoever!! You have confused, or missed the point and have instead referred to the "MID-TRIBULAION" opinion.
I do not believe the Mid-Trib is Biblically correct. I have consistantily stated that my belief is the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. That is why I never answered the question as it did not pertain to my opinion.
The question was.......
"How is it that you are caught up before the tribulation when the trumpets are not handed out until the seventh seal-which is AFTER thew tribulation and those from it are revealed. "
The "trumpet" judgments are the 7th seal judments.
Rev. 8:1-2
And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silance in heaven about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God, AND TO THEM WAS GIVEN SEVEN TRUMPETS".
Rev. 8:6....
"And the seven angels which had the seven "trumpets" prepaed themselves to sound".
As we can clearly see, the "Trumpet" judgments are PREPARING to sound. That tells us that they have NOT TAKEN PLACE. That of course negats your opinion of......"which is AFTER thew tribulation and those from it are revealed. "
The Trumpets ARE NOT AFTER the Tribulation but in fact are part of the Great Tribulation.
My observation and study over the years has convinced me that Rev. 11:15-18, the 7th Trumpet, describes the Revelation not the Rapture, and in fact parallels Revelation 19:11-16, and the notification of repetition in Revelation 10:11 would make the "Mid-Trib" interpretation in chronology of Revelation completely untenable.
To accept the Mid-Trib view, one must understand that this position depends on the ALLEGORICAL method of interpretation to make Revelation 11 describe the Rapture which is why I reject that view.
Always nice to talk with you and may the Lord bless you in your studies.
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