Worship through music

I see no error in @Euphemia or @grant melvilles positions on musical instruments. It is only when either of these positions is taken "too far" that either position sprouts error.
 
Major said:
I like your picture a lot more that the avatar you were useing!
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Thank you, Major!

Better look farther down the pew sister!

Paul discussed one main work of demons when he warned young Timothy of conditions “in the latter times.”
1 Tim. 4:1.........
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."
Demons are the source of organized doctrines of the false cults that are all around us. Rev. 2:2 says that even in the early church, there were false apostles Rev. 2:14 explains that there were false doctrines 9n the church pews that had to be opposed.
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Yes, demons do try to bring disturbances and distortions, but one of the worst distortions and distractions is the notion that we are not to worship wholeheartedly with the complement of musical instruments and dance as has been the way that God has commanded since the beginning. It is pure religiosity and legalism that has tried to creep into the hearts and minds of good believers, inhibiting their freedom in Christ---because Satan hates Christians offering up any kind of worship with music, as he was once the worship leader in heaven and has literally stolen what is rightfully God's and uses music to bring glory to himself instead. That people reject musical instruments and dance as acceptable worship before the Lord is just another distortion he has wrought.
 
Silk said:
I couldn't find an example of Grant's position taken too far.....maybe picture an empty church.
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There is a whole denomination that rejects instrumental worship. That doesn't mean they are false converts, as I know people who adhere to that denomination. Dear people who love God! But, there is a huge thread of legalism and a works mentality that has threaded its way throughout.
 
Just an aside, the video I posted is not the same as the original I had in mind and I can no longer find that one. This one cuts people throwing up, fainting, and looking frightened and confused. I think you can still find this footage in the Strange Fire Conference (19 hours).
 
Euphemia said:
Thank you, Major!



Yes, demons do try to bring disturbances and distortions, but one of the worst distortions and distractions is the notion that we are not to worship wholeheartedly with the complement of musical instruments and dance as has been the way that God has commanded since the beginning. It is pure religiosity and legalism that has tried to creep into the hearts and minds of good believers, inhibiting their freedom in Christ---because Satan hates Christians offering up any kind of worship with music, as he was once the worship leader in heaven and has literally stolen what is rightfully God's and uses music to bring glory to himself instead. That people reject musical instruments and dance as acceptable worship before the Lord is just another distortion he has wrought.
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Hey, I have been on your side about the instrument thing!!!

But Satan and his demons work through other means and actions to distract and draw attention away from the ministry of the Holy Spirit during worship services.

I am sure you have seen just as I have that right before an invitation is given, the pastor is praying and working for the souls of the lost and someone has a coughing fit. All of a sudden the mood is broken.

Then there is my favorite. Right when the preaching is getting good, some teenager or child just has to go to the restroom or get a drink of water. That disruption can and does break the working of God and draws attention away from the preaching and onto the commotion.
 
Euphemia said:
We are accountable to Christ. At the same time, however, Jesus has instituted a way of keeping order in the assembly. But, again, all glory and praise goes to the Father, and Holy Spirit should be the one who inspires us in the manner of worship...and no one else.
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Agreed!

Deut. 6:14.........
"You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you (for the LORD your God is a jealous God among you), lest the anger of the LORD your God be aroused against you and destroy you from the face of the earth."

The Bible teaches that the gods of the peoples,— all of them, not some of them,— are "idols" and any idol has at its core Satan and Satan is the leader of all demons.

1 Chron. 16:26..........
"For all the gods of the peoples are idols, but the LORD made the heavens."

But I also think that you are aware that some people can be manipulated by a demonic presence.
 
Major said:
Hey, I have been on your side about the instrument thing!!!

But Satan and his demons work through other means and actions to distract and draw attention away from the ministry of the Holy Spirit during worship services.

I am sure you have seen just as I have that right before an invitation is given, the pastor is praying and working for the souls of the lost and someone has a coughing fit. All of a sudden the mood is broken.

Then there is my favorite. Right when the preaching is getting good, some teenager or child just has to go to the restroom or get a drink of water. That disruption can and does break the working of God and draws attention away from the preaching and onto the commotion.
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Sure, those things do happen, but we work toward these things NOT happening. We also need to discipline ourselves not to be distracted, and that comes with diligence. However, when we all come together to join our hearts and voices in the worship of our Saviour, it is for us as individuals, also, to shut out anything that would distract us...and teach others to do the same. Whenever Holy Spirit is among us, nothing can wedge itself in there to take away what is rightfully God's unless we allow it---that has been my personal experience.
 
Major said:
Agreed!

Deut. 6:14.........
"You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you (for the LORD your God is a jealous God among you), lest the anger of the LORD your God be aroused against you and destroy you from the face of the earth."

The Bible teaches that the gods of the peoples,— all of them, not some of them,— are "idols" and any idol has at its core Satan and Satan is the leader of all demons.

1 Chron. 16:26..........
"For all the gods of the peoples are idols, but the LORD made the heavens."

But I also think that you are aware that some people can be manipulated by a demonic presence.
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Yes, I've seen it first hand.
 
Euphemia said:
Sure, those things do happen, but we work toward these things NOT happening. We also need to discipline ourselves not to be distracted, and that comes with diligence. However, when we all come together to join our hearts and voices in the worship of our Saviour, it is for us as individuals, also, to shut out anything that would distract us...and teach others to do the same. Whenever Holy Spirit is among us, nothing can wedge itself in there to take away what is rightfully God's unless we allow it---that has been my personal experience.
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Yes, that is true. That is the goal and that is what is acceptable. However, the demons all around are working just as hard to disrupt as we are to shut them out. They will have problems distracting YOU so then they go after that person who is weak in the faith or to young to know better.

Example.
We have a large sign right over the entrance to the sanctuary that says......"Limit distraction, Please turn off all cell phones".

Of course, wouldn't you know several weeks ago, a teenagers phone rang 3 or 4 times right at the start of the invitation. The young lady, answered it, got up and walked to an exit door and stood there talking on the phone. The pastor, God bless him, calmly walked over and held out his hand and said nothing. The young lady handed him the phone with out a word and after the service talked with her parents. It was a good moment BUT it ruined the moment and who knows what was about to happen.
 
Perhaps we ought to be careful, brethren, about the use of certain words. The charge of legalism, for example, is a very serious one. It implies a lack of love among other things. We really ought to be careful about the language we use so as to avoid extremes. I used the expression "flights of fancy" earlier in the discussion, and I feel that that is an example of making a statement about other believers which wasn't called for, and which is, in fact, not loving. I withdraw that language, and again I hope that no-one was offended by it. I feel we ought to call error what it is and not beat around the bush, but we ought to care for one another.

Major said:
Church of Christ and let me tell you it is real, real subdued. To ME, it is the side effect of suppressing the Holy Spirit.
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This is something I feel strongly about. A subdued atmosphere in a gathering of the saints is most definitely a sign that something is far wrong, and that the Holy Spirit isn't free. Even when we have to gather for a sorrowful purpose, such as discipline, the power and energy of the Holy Spirit should always be in evidence. That the Holy Spirit should be totally and utterly free in the assembly is of the utmost importance (and it's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about the topic under discussion). When the Spirit is free, worship is joyful, spontaneous, rich. It flows out and expands, an eternal theme of praise! When we gather for the Lord's supper, I quite often think of Ezekiel 41:7: "And for the side-chambers there was an enlarging, and it went round about the house increasing upward; for the surrounding of the house increased upward round about the house; therefore the house had width upward, and so ascended from the lower story to the upper, by the middle one." What a beautiful type of worship at the Supper. How much we'd lose if the Holy Spirit didn't have complete freedom to move in the assembly, to draw on this and that vessel of praise, according to His own perfect, divine wisdom; Christ in the midst, leading us on in praise. No two occasions of assembly worship I've experienced are the same, and I would trace that to the Holy Spirit's activity. If He is directing the worship, there's no danger of staleness, ritual or repetition. We know that if that creeps in, then the Spirit is grieved. I know it in my own personal experience, having grieved the Holy Spirit, being restricted in my worship. But when He has His way with me... well, what liberty in the presence of God! Our dear sister @Euphemia often talks about worship with abandon, and that is what I think of when I think of worship with abandon: being in the presence of God, free from any hindrance, revelling in exquisite joy in the divine presence. "Rise up, well! sing unto it. Well which princes digged, which the nobles of the people hollowed out at the word of the lawgiver, with their staves." (Numbers 21:17-18)! Praise be to Thee, blessed Holy Spirit of God, thou blessed Comforter, sent of the Father! "God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father." (Galatians 4:6). I never noticed it before, but all three divine Persons are mentioned in this beautiful verse. What a sphere of love we're drawn into, brethren. Love which existed before time was, between the Persons of the Godhead, a sphere of divine affection into which we've been brought. Unspeakably delightful!
 
So....? Make a joyful noise to the Lord, however you prefer to do it?

Psa_66:1 To the chief Musician, A Song or Psalm. Make a joyful noise unto God, all ye lands:
Psa_81:1 To the chief Musician upon Gittith, A Psalm of Asaph. Sing aloud unto God our strength: make a joyful noise unto the God of Jacob.
Psa_95:1 O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
Psa_95:2 Let us come before his presence with thanksgiving, and make a joyful noise unto him with psalms.
Psa_98:4 Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise.
Psa_98:6 With trumpets and sound of cornet make a joyful noise before the LORD, the King.
Psa_100:1 A Psalm of praise. Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all ye lands.
 
Grant Melville said:
Perhaps we ought to be careful, brethren, about the use of certain words. The charge of legalism, for example, is a very serious one. It implies a lack of love among other things. We really ought to be careful about the language we use so as to avoid extremes. I used the expression "flights of fancy" earlier in the discussion, and I feel that that is an example of making a statement about other believers which wasn't called for, and which is, in fact, not loving. I withdraw that language, and again I hope that no-one was offended by it. I feel we ought to call error what it is and not beat around the bush, but we ought to care for one another.



This is something I feel strongly about. A subdued atmosphere in a gathering of the saints is most definitely a sign that something is far wrong, and that the Holy Spirit isn't free. Even when we have to gather for a sorrowful purpose, such as discipline, the power and energy of the Holy Spirit should always be in evidence. That the Holy Spirit should be totally and utterly free in the assembly is of the utmost importance (and it's one of the reasons I feel so strongly about the topic under discussion). When the Spirit is free, worship is joyful, spontaneous, rich. It flows out and expands, an eternal theme of praise! When we gather for the Lord's supper, I quite often think of Ezekiel 41:7: "And for the side-chambers there was an enlarging, and it went round about the house increasing upward; for the surrounding of the house increased upward round about the house; therefore the house had width upward, and so ascended from the lower story to the upper, by the middle one." What a beautiful type of worship at the Supper. How much we'd lose if the Holy Spirit didn't have complete freedom to move in the assembly, to draw on this and that vessel of praise, according to His own perfect, divine wisdom; Christ in the midst, leading us on in praise. No two occasions of assembly worship I've experienced are the same, and I would trace that to the Holy Spirit's activity. If He is directing the worship, there's no danger of staleness, ritual or repetition. We know that if that creeps in, then the Spirit is grieved. I know it in my own personal experience, having grieved the Holy Spirit, being restricted in my worship. But when He has His way with me... well, what liberty in the presence of God! Our dear sister @Euphemia often talks about worship with abandon, and that is what I think of when I think of worship with abandon: being in the presence of God, free from any hindrance, revelling in exquisite joy in the divine presence. "Rise up, well! sing unto it. Well which princes digged, which the nobles of the people hollowed out at the word of the lawgiver, with their staves." (Numbers 21:17-18)! Praise be to Thee, blessed Holy Spirit of God, thou blessed Comforter, sent of the Father! "God has sent out the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father." (Galatians 4:6). I never noticed it before, but all three divine Persons are mentioned in this beautiful verse. What a sphere of love we're drawn into, brethren. Love which existed before time was, between the Persons of the Godhead, a sphere of divine affection into which we've been brought. Unspeakably delightful!
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I understand Grant. My thinking is that we all have unique worship experiences. The Church of Christ church services I have attended were as I said....."subdued".

The singing was very low key and when there was no one speaking it was deathly quiet.
(I have attended a friends church on two occasion when Communion was practiced). It was very solemn and very reserved.
 
Silk said:
So....? Make a joyful noise to the Lord, however you prefer to do it?
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Yes... I would prefer to have the Lord's mind about it, rather than following my own preference. The scripture says of the assembly (in type): "The heart of her husband confideth in her, and he shall have no lack of spoil." (Proverbs 31:11). I believe it's an amazingly precious thing to be attuned to the desires of the Lord Jesus, so that He can confide in us about what especially pleases Him, what gratifies His heart. That is what I want most, and I would hope that would always rule my every movement in relation to His things. If I lay aside my own natural desires, tastes, preferences, inclinations... then I'm in a position to act in accordance with the particular desires of my beloved Lord. The Holy Spirit can work in me, building up the word of God, giving me new desires which are perfectly aligned with His. The Lord's speaking is as a "soft gentle voice." (1 Kings 19:12). Not everything is written down as a commandment, some things have to be learned in quiet attendance on that most lovely of voices. The more I listen to it, the more I want to hear of it, sitting at His feet, like Mary, having chosen the better part.
 
Grant Melville said:
Not everything is written down as a commandment, some things have to be learned in quiet attendance on that most lovely of voices. The more I listen to it, the more I want to hear of it, sitting at His feet, like Mary, having chosen the better part.
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I hear His voice in scripture and that tells us seven times to make a joyful noise both with voice and instrument. If you find that a distraction - by all means, avoid it.
 
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