Worship through music

I agree with Silk, that sounds like it has an "OR ELSE" attached to it. :cautious:

Not at all. We simply need to be careful about this topic, that we do not cause anyone who reads to think that because they enjoy worshiping God with instruments (like most people do), that somehow they are flirting with carnality. When we worship God fully "in the beauty of holiness", there is no carnality there. Judging others that they must be giving over to soulish imagination or flights of fancy is dangerous.
 
Musical instruments are mentioned all the way back to Genesis - leaving out the 61 trumpet verses:

Gen_4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen_31:27 Wherefore didst thou flee away secretly, and steal away from me; and didst not tell me, that I might have sent thee away with mirth, and with songs, with tabret, and with harp?
1Sa_10:5 After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:
1Sa_16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
1Sa_16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1Ch_25:3 Of Jeduthun: the sons of Jeduthun; Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and to praise the LORD.
Job_21:12 They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
Job_30:31 My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.
Psa_33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
Psa_43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.
Psa_49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.
Psa_57:8 Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.
Psa_71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psa_81:2 Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery.
Psa_92:3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Psa_98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.
Psa_108:2 Awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.
Psa_147:7 Sing unto the LORD with thanksgiving; sing praise upon the harp unto our God:
Psa_149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
Psa_150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Isa_5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
Isa_16:11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.
Isa_23:16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.
Isa_24:8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
Dan_3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan_3:7 Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
Dan_3:10 Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:
Dan_3:15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
1Co_14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Ch_16:42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun were porters.
Neh_12:36 And his brethren, Shemaiah, and Azarael, Milalai, Gilalai, Maai, Nethaneel, and Judah, Hanani, with the musical instruments of David the man of God, and Ezra the scribe before them.
Ecc_2:8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
Psa_33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
Psa_92:3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Psa_144:9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.
Eze_33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
Eze_33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
 
@Euphemia @Grant Melville

International Standard Version 2_timothy/2-23
Do not have anything to do with foolish and stupid discussions, because you know they breed arguments.

New Living Translation titus/3-9
Do not get involved in foolish discussions about spiritual pedigrees or in quarrels and fights about obedience to Jewish laws. These things are useless and a waste of time.

2 Timothy 2:16 ESV
But avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness

How long are you two going to go back and forth over this ? You both have awesome points and neither of you is wrong. You both see things in different levels.

Now then @Euphemia - Let grant worship as he wishes and say nothing against his worship
Now then @Grant Melville - Let euphemia worship as she wishes and say nothing against her style of worship.

I only say this because you both are going to get to the place where when you dogo to worship, well God may not get involved with the aught against the others NOT GRASPING YOUR POINT.....

I value BOTH of YOUR friendship and Love and fellowship. I value your input and hearts.
So please shake hands, give each other a Godly hug and be done with this..
I love you both
God Bless
Jim
 
Psa_43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.
Psa_49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.
Psa_57:8 Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.
Psa_71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psa_81:2 Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery.
Psa_92:3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Psa_98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.
I don't know how this gets into God's Word if God does not want to hear instruments created by the hands of men. If the Holy Spirit doesn't inspire humans to use the gifts given to them, then what are the gifts for? Worship God with all that you are. Worship Him in spirit and truth. Our spirit soars with inspired music. And in truth, we have been given gifts to use to worship and honor God Almighty.
Ephesians 4:
7 But to each one of us grace was given according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore He says:

“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”

9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ

Just because he doesn't name every gift does not mean any are excluded, for they are all used for the edifying of the body of Christ.
 
I only say this because you both are going to get to the place where when you dogo to worship, well God may not get involved with the aught against the others NOT GRASPING YOUR POINT.....

While I understand your sentiments, Jim...what does this actually mean? God doesn't withhold Himself from us when we worship Him.
 
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While I understand your sentiments, Jim...what does this actually mean? God doesn't withhold Himself from us when we worship Him.
My Dear sweet sister,
When we get into aught with others ( example only ) it suppresses the flow of God in what you are doing and tends to infiltrate into all other area's. Now you can assure me that you have no aught against any and I would believe you with out a doubt. However sometimes deep within our core being ( spirit ) we have or are even the slightest feeling as if we know better and someone else is out in left field and this can get in the way of a good true two way worship between one and the Father.

Euphemia there are so many things that instantly cut off the flow of the Holy Spirit during worship. Believe me when I say the enemy will camouflage even the littlest of things in order for you to hinder the Spirits involvement or moving.

Here is a dumb but true example of a dumb little thing that was BIG.
The entire church filled with the spirit of God during a worship service. I mean you could not have been paid enough money to not see this.

Then the pastor begins to hush every one. Shhh lets see what God wants us to do. From the first shhh the spirit was gone. Sister you talk about a dumb move by a pastor.....that was it. Even when we returned to worship - the spirit never moved again that day in there.

When we feel the need to keep pushing our point or trying to prove what we know is correct over what any one else thinks - it does something spiritually inside of us, that for the most part we do not even see or know or are WILLING to ACCEPT. EVEN IF WE ARE RIGHT.

All I was saying is - becareful to not hinder your own worship ( again your is in general and is any believer in Christ ) There are so many types of blessing stealers and this also means blessed worship time as well.

I hope my dear sister this answers your question.
God Bless
Jim
 
Instruments are NOT an innovation in worship, as they have been used since the BEGINNING---since Israel was being established---right through to Pentecost, right up until today, with no break in between!
If only that were true, but history clearly shows a departure from the Jewish mode of worship with the establishment of the Church. After that, we do find a substantial break. As I've said before, while we might like to ignore the silence of scripture, we also have the positive declaration of history to confirm that.
 
Musical instruments are mentioned all the way back to Genesis - leaving out the 61 trumpet verses:

Gen_4:21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Gen_31:27 Wherefore didst thou flee away secretly, and steal away from me; and didst not tell me, that I might have sent thee away with mirth, and with songs, with tabret, and with harp?
1Sa_10:5 After that thou shalt come to the hill of God, where is the garrison of the Philistines: and it shall come to pass, when thou art come thither to the city, that thou shalt meet a company of prophets coming down from the high place with a psaltery, and a tabret, and a pipe, and a harp, before them; and they shall prophesy:
1Sa_16:16 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.
1Sa_16:23 And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
1Ch_25:3 Of Jeduthun: the sons of Jeduthun; Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun, who prophesied with a harp, to give thanks and to praise the LORD.
Job_21:12 They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ.
Job_30:31 My harp also is turned to mourning, and my organ into the voice of them that weep.
Psa_33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
Psa_43:4 Then will I go unto the altar of God, unto God my exceeding joy: yea, upon the harp will I praise thee, O God my God.
Psa_49:4 I will incline mine ear to a parable: I will open my dark saying upon the harp.
Psa_57:8 Awake up, my glory; awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.
Psa_71:22 I will also praise thee with the psaltery, even thy truth, O my God: unto thee will I sing with the harp, O thou Holy One of Israel.
Psa_81:2 Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery.
Psa_92:3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Psa_98:5 Sing unto the LORD with the harp; with the harp, and the voice of a psalm.
Psa_108:2 Awake, psaltery and harp: I myself will awake early.
Psa_147:7 Sing unto the LORD with thanksgiving; sing praise upon the harp unto our God:
Psa_149:3 Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp.
Psa_150:3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
Isa_5:12 And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.
Isa_16:11 Wherefore my bowels shall sound like an harp for Moab, and mine inward parts for Kirharesh.
Isa_23:16 Take an harp, go about the city, thou harlot that hast been forgotten; make sweet melody, sing many songs, that thou mayest be remembered.
Isa_24:8 The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
Dan_3:5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:
Dan_3:7 Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshipped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.
Dan_3:10 Thou, O king, hast made a decree, that every man that shall hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, shall fall down and worship the golden image:
Dan_3:15 Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made; well: but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that God that shall deliver you out of my hands?
1Co_14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Ch_16:42 And with them Heman and Jeduthun with trumpets and cymbals for those that should make a sound, and with musical instruments of God. And the sons of Jeduthun were porters.
Neh_12:36 And his brethren, Shemaiah, and Azarael, Milalai, Gilalai, Maai, Nethaneel, and Judah, Hanani, with the musical instruments of David the man of God, and Ezra the scribe before them.
Ecc_2:8 I gathered me also silver and gold, and the peculiar treasure of kings and of the provinces: I gat me men singers and women singers, and the delights of the sons of men, as musical instruments, and that of all sorts.
Psa_33:2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
Psa_92:3 Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Psa_144:9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery and an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.
Eze_33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
Eze_33:32 And, lo, thou art unto them as a very lovely song of one that hath a pleasant voice, and can play well on an instrument: for they hear thy words, but they do them not.
Finally! Scripture :D
 
Well, it's not about you and how you see it. It is all about the Lord Jesus Christ and our complete and utter abandonment to full worship with all we have: body, mind, spirit...and anything we have in our hands to do, we are commanded to do with all our might as unto the Lord, and THAT includes musical instruments.
You're quite right - we have to seek the mind of God about everything. God has not changed - there were acceptable offerings, and there was that which was unacceptable to Him. We have to be intelligent as to that, if we're to serve as priests. I know that I can't offer anything which is of myself, it has to be Christ, unmixed. We see that, brought out fully and beautifully in the types of the offerings.

"... and anything we have in our hands to do, we are commanded to do with all our might as unto the Lord, and THAT includes musical instruments." - Could you direct me to a scripture for that? All that springs to mind is Ecclesiastes 9:10, but I'm sure that's not what you're referring to here. I seem to remember a scripture in one of the epistles to Timothy, but it's escaping me at the moment.


We are no longer "poor, destitute and naked". We are King's kids, clothed in His righteousness!
Yes. If the Righteousness is His, what do we have to offer that will be acceptable to Him?

Being considered "narrow, legalistic and religious-minded" is a detriment to one's witness.
If we "go forth therefore to Him without the camp", we will bear "His reproach." (Hebrews 13:13). The camp is the religious world. If we're faithful to Christ and want to be fully identified with Him, we'll be called all these things by other Christians, even other believers.

A big NO to that one. It's not about how we feel. It's about what God desires.
Are the desires of God from us as believers not bound up with everything that Christ has accomplished?

It is ONLY scriptural that God inhabits the praises of His people. Holy Spirit worked His power in the playing of an instrument by David, where Saul, vexed by an evil spirit was quieted and soothed by such anointing. Holy Spirit hasn't stopped that. THAT'S clear.

"Imagination"and "flights of fancy" don't even enter into this discussion, so you would be well advised to cease with that description and terminology.
As I've already pointed out, the incident with Saul and David is a unique and isolated one, and it relates to what David was as a type of Christ. We mustn't take every incidence of God's varied and wonderful ways as a general rule - otherwise we'd expect seas to part and rivers to roll back wherever we came to them.

Perhaps the language I used here - "imagination" and "flights of fancy" - is too strong, and I'm sorry if I've caused any offence. I was simply trying to stress the importance of founding doctrine on the solid basis of the word of God, so that doctrine can be traced by to that solid foundation. That's what the Bereans did, I believe, and they were given credit for it.

Believe me...it is very helpful, lest someone stumble into guilt for worshiping the Lord with instrumental accompaniment...somehow believing that he or she has indulged in carnality---when that is not the case. As for imagination, it is God-given, and with the Holy Spirit empowering us, there are great things that God can bring forth from us through the righteous employment of it. After all, God encouraged Abraham to use his imagination, with images of the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore as descriptors of his innumerable descendants.
I believe that there's very little occasion for stumbling in encouraging one another to go back to the scriptures and search out the truth in them. And, if having done so, anyone arrives at conviction about the use of musical instruments (or other things) in the service of God, then I believe they'd find it liberating. Not liberating in the sight of man, but rather before God, as free from complication and outward things added to the service of God (which can provide a cover for unreality), free to be to God and standing before Him in worship in the worth of Christ, and not on the basis of activities or works. That's my experience, at least.

Again (and I'm not intending to be pendantic), God wasn't encouraging Abraham to use his imagination. On the contrary, He gave him a clear picture of what He would work out in relation to him, using the creation as a figure.

As to imagination, in Ezekiel 13:17, we read "And thou, son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, who prophesy out of their own heart [or, 'imagination']; and prophesy against them..." As early as Genesis: "And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of Man was great on the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart only evil continually. (Genesis 6:5).

Our wildest imagination is bound to fall far short of divine reality. That's why we have to rely on the Spirit of God to reveal these things to us. "Being therefore the offspring of God, we ought not to think that which is divine to be like gold or silver or stone, the graven form of man's art and imagination." (Acts 17:29).
 
When we feel the need to keep pushing our point or trying to prove what we know is correct over what any one else thinks - it does something spiritually inside of us, that for the most part we do not even see or know or are WILLING to ACCEPT. EVEN IF WE ARE RIGHT.
Thank you for your intervention, Jim. I didn't see your post earlier when I posted my latest comments, otherwise I might've held off!

I think the point you make which I've quoted is very important. There is spiritual harm in contention for the sake of it. We need to make sure that we're not having "disputes of words, profitable for nothing, to the subversion of the hearers." (2 Timothy 2:14), and that we "let nothing be in the spirit of strife or vain glory..." (Philippians 2:3) and that, ultimately, we "contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints." (Jude 1:3). If the first two things came to light, it's best for me just to walk away from a discussion like that. It's important though for us not to go away with the impression that these things which we're discussing don't matter. They do matter. They should be looked into, the mind of God sought, the scriptures searched. The devil is keen to keep people in an apathetic state as to getting the mind of God, just as much as he's keen to draw us into contentions in the spirit of strife or vain-glory. We should avoid both. Brethren, it's all very well to accept as God's truth the teachings and doings of the believers we walk in fellowship with. It's another thing to seek God's mind for ourselves. Happily, we'll often find ourselves confirmed and bound closer to our beloved brethren in a shared knowledge and appreciation of truth, truth personally apprehended and mutually enjoyed. But there are times when we have to question the rightness of things which are almost universally accepted, and stand for divine principles when the practices of Christendom clash with them. Are we contending earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints? I put that question to myself first.
 
We need to guard ourselves from religiosity and legalism. With utter joy, we are free in Christ and empowered by Holy Spirit to worship the Lord with all we've got! He is mindful of our limitations...yet the one who fully engages in adoration and exaltation of our God in song, dance, shouts and with any and all of our talents and gifts brings a sweet aroma into His presence. He, in turn, presents Himself on our midst
 
We need to guard ourselves from religiosity and legalism. With utter joy, we are free in Christ and empowered by Holy Spirit to worship the Lord with all we've got! He is mindful of our limitations...yet the one who fully engages in adoration and exaltation of our God in song, dance, shouts and with any and all of our talents and gifts brings a sweet aroma into His presence. He, in turn, presents Himself on our midst

While I also agree with your comment it should also be noted that there should be some kind of accountability for actions you describe or else the attention will go to the performers and NOT to the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am of course referring to a worship service and NOT a performace for entertainment purposes only.
 
When I am worshiping God, the enemy is far from me.

I like your picture a lot more that the avatar you were useing!

Better look farther down the pew sister!

Paul discussed one main work of demons when he warned young Timothy of conditions “in the latter times.”
1 Tim. 4:1.........
"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons."
Demons are the source of organized doctrines of the false cults that are all around us. Rev. 2:2 says that even in the early church, there were false apostles Rev. 2:14 explains that there were false doctrines 9n the church pews that had to be opposed.
 
While I also agree with your comment it should also be noted that there should be some kind of accountability for actions you describe or else the attention will go to the performers and NOT to the Lord Jesus Christ.

I am of course referring to a worship service and NOT a performace for entertainment purposes only.

We are accountable to Christ. At the same time, however, Jesus has instituted a way of keeping order in the assembly. But, again, all glory and praise goes to the Father, and Holy Spirit should be the one who inspires us in the manner of worship...and no one else.
 
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