Worship through music

Yes indeed, “consistency” is a requirement for a logical conclusion or logical truth to be valid.

In the same manner: as I see it:

Arminianism has consistency in their statement towards the conclusion.
As well Calvinism has consistency in their statements towards the conclusion.

And yet, the obvious disagreement on the conclusion remains…..

What then will provide a "One Mind"
BOTH share “One Mind” on the same premise,

No, I would not even call it a premise (assumption) it is a statement of Truth: GRACE ALONE.
Yes, it's a vexed question. I don't know if I would rely on logic, personally, or even suggest that logic comes into divine things. I'm not saying that you're wrong - I would just view the matter in different terms.

The truth is one whole - it's not bits and pieces. If you pick up one part of the truth, you pick up the whole truth - there's no dividing one aspect of God's truth from the rest and having it in isolation. As well as being one whole, the truth is completely consistent, with no internal contradictions. The truth is in Jesus (Ephesians 4:21). Is there any Man we can look to who is wholly, completely, unfailingly consistent? None but Jesus, who is the same as the truth which is in Him, the embodiment of Truth. That's how we can be sure that the doctrine we receive is the truth, because it's consistent with the whole of the truth. It doesn't require to be taken up in isolation to be understood. It's easy for evil persons to pick out a verse of scripture and make it say whatever they want it to say. But the fact that their doctrine is corrupt is revealed by the fact that their interpretation isn't consistent at all with the broad scope of the word of God.

@Grant Melville
Greetings and Peace my Brother, ;)
Hey could you explain to me what you meant by the following ((If we were to take all of these parables literally, we'd be in awful confusion, wouldn'twe?)))

I have yet to be able to wrap my mind around how you meant this.
God Bless Brother
Jim
What I mean by that is that if we try to apply the parables literally, we'd get nowhere. Was the Lord literally a merchant in His search for a literal pearl of great price? Is there literally treasure hidden in a field? I'm not trying to be flippant, but it does show how confused we could get if we apply parables, or elements of them, in a literal way. I know that most brethren are in no danger whatsoever of trying to apply the parables literally in their entirety, but there is a tendency to pick out what we like from them to support unscriptural ideas about practical matters. These things are spiritual in their application and meaning, and if we take the elements of them literally, we both lose the spiritual meaning, and we get into a bit of a fix. Think of how the Roman Catholic system has got so wildly astray by applying the Lord's words literally, even when not in parable form: transubstantiation.

Grant........does the idea of a "parable" diminish the fact that it is words from God?
Not at all. The parables are very precious, and a great many fundamental truths are revealed in them - the parable of the younger son is a particularly foundational one.

I do not believe that taking a parable as literal would cause confusion. In fact, wasn't the use of parables done to give the disciples a better and more easily understood way of grasping the Lords teaching?

The parable is a method of conveying a truth beyond its strict facts. The Bible as a whole is exactly that itself but that is for another thread.

My point was that you had questioned and rejected musical instruments in worship services and I wanted you to know that they were recorded in the Scriptures as a method of worship.

That was what I hoped you would respond to. ..........
"Musical instruments were used in worship"!
Yes, the Lord presents the truth to the disciples in the form of parables, so that through figures (or, you might say, types) they might understand the great truths of Christianity. Each element of a parable represents something or someone else other than what's literally spoken of. Why, out of all the things spoken of in parable form, should music and dancing be any different? This parable doesn't give us the idea of literal music instruments and literally dancing used in worship. What we see in the parable in any case isn't worship, but divine joy, the joy of divine Persons.

I think the discussion has a tendency to wander off-topic. What I hold and would state as truth is that musical instruments (or any other art or craft of man) have no place in Christian worship, in the assembly. The fact that God was praised with musical instruments in Jewish worship is undeniable. The fact that there's nothing wrong musical instruments, in themselves, is also incontestable. It's only the first point that I'm putting forward. The fact is that in the word of God where there's teaching concerning worship in the assembly, nowhere do find mentioned musical instruments, dancing, art, industry, eloquence, or oratory. Not many of us seem to think that's in any way significant, which is strange. If God looked for these things in Christian worship, it would be an oversight, to say the least, for these things not to included in His word regarding Christian worship. If even one of the aforementioned practices was mentioned in the scriptures, then perhaps we'd have a basis for including them all. But the fact is that none of them are mentioned, they're totally excluded from the page of scripture, the substance and spirit of the Word. The fact is that these things do not have the sanction of the word, but they do have the sanction of human tradition. The latter seems to have a powerful hold on Christendom, but we as real believers and spiritual persons, should not be so easily swayed by arguments of antiquity.
 
Many brethren would argue that the absence of any mention of musical instruments (and the rest) in the New Testament scriptures concerning the assembly isn't a solid basis for excluding musical instruments (and the rest) from the assembly. If that was the only basis for this belief, then it could perhaps be proved wrong through reasoning and logic.

But, that isn't the whole of the basis, just a part of it. What convinces me, far more than a mere absence of a direct commandment, is knowledge of the work and Person of the Lord Jesus, and the service of the Holy Spirit. The more we learn about divine Persons, the more we understand the character of assembly worship, and see the wonderful consistency of the instructions we get in the New Testament regarding the assembly with the divine Nature. Consistency, that's the key. No truth stands on its own, and while a truth might be expressed concisely in one verse of scripture, it's linked inextricably with every other truth and every other verse.

I hope that's not a needlessly complicated way of saying a very simple thing!

I wouldn't consider myself someone who's spiritually gifted as a teacher. I won't attempt to expand on any of the above, unless someone who's interested contacts me privately to discuss it. I feel that these things have to be learned and experienced in a personal way, and with my small understanding of them, I couldn't possibly do justice to them. For anyone interested in following up from the scriptures the subjects I've referenced, I would highly recommend studying the tabernacle system, the offerings, looking at the narrative of Abraham's servant and Rebecca, and perhaps dwelling on the touch in the Book of Esther as to Esther and Hegai. These beautiful types give us a fuller, deeper insight into the truths brought into revelation in the Person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
Yes, it's a vexed question. I don't know if I would rely on logic, personally, or even suggest that logic comes into divine things. I'm not saying that you're wrong - I would just view the matter in different terms.

The truth is one whole - it's not bits and pieces. If you pick up one part of the truth, you pick up the whole truth - there's no dividing one aspect of God's truth from the rest and having it in isolation. As well as being one whole, the truth is completely consistent, with no internal contradictions. The truth is in Jesus (Ephesians 4:21). Is there any Man we can look to who is wholly, completely, unfailingly consistent? None but Jesus, who is the same as the truth which is in Him, the embodiment of Truth. That's how we can be sure that the doctrine we receive is the truth, because it's consistent with the whole of the truth. It doesn't require to be taken up in isolation to be understood. It's easy for evil persons to pick out a verse of scripture and make it say whatever they want it to say. But the fact that their doctrine is corrupt is revealed by the fact that their interpretation isn't consistent at all with the broad scope of the word of God.

I agree with what you said: how you see Logic, etc.
My “logic” is my safety precaution, as I see it, precisely my disclaimer below : )
My reason: I rather found wrong with my logic, rather than claim I have the “Word of God” and be found a liar.

Proverbs 30:5-6New King James Version (NKJV)
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.



I do believe in consistency of Truth,
I see your “argument” as consistent and valid I would say.
And I see as well the other “argument” as consistent and valid.

Is that possible both are consistent and valid. Yes, imo.
there is a good thread related to it, that I might post later....
http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/what-is-truth.43400/


The point of my post is: we share the same faith in the truth of verse : John 4:23-24


John 4:23-24New King James Version (NKJV)
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
 
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Yes, it's a vexed question. I don't know if I would rely on logic, personally, or even suggest that logic comes into divine things. I'm not saying that you're wrong - I would just view the matter in different terms

Not at all. The parables are very precious, and a great many fundamental truths are revealed in them - the parable of the younger son is a particularly foundational one.

Yes, the Lord presents the truth to the disciples in the form of parables, so that through figures (or, you might say, types) they might understand the great truths of Christianity. Each element of a parable represents something or someone else other than what's literally spoken of. Why, out of all the things spoken of in parable form, should music and dancing be any different? This parable doesn't give us the idea of literal music instruments and literally dancing used in worship. What we see in the parable in any case isn't worship, but divine joy, the joy of divine Persons.

I think the discussion has a tendency to wander off-topic. What I hold and would state as truth is that musical instruments (or any other art or craft of man) have no place in Christian worship, in the assembly. The fact that God was praised with musical instruments in Jewish worship is undeniable. The fact that there's nothing wrong musical instruments, in themselves, is also incontestable. It's only the first point that I'm putting forward. The fact is that in the word of God where there's teaching concerning worship in the assembly, nowhere do find mentioned musical instruments, dancing, art, industry, eloquence, or oratory. Not many of us seem to think that's in any way significant, which is strange. If God looked for these things in Christian worship, it would be an oversight, to say the least, for these things not to included in His word regarding Christian worship. If even one of the aforementioned practices was mentioned in the scriptures, then perhaps we'd have a basis for including them all. But the fact is that none of them are mentioned, they're totally excluded from the page of scripture, the substance and spirit of the Word. The fact is that these things do not have the sanction of the word, but they do have the sanction of human tradition. The latter seems to have a powerful hold on Christendom, but we as real believers and spiritual persons, should not be so easily swayed by arguments of antiquity.

I here you Grant but I also would encourage you to consider that David was allowed to prepare the plans for the temple and its worship services—and they were very detailed. He arranged to have players of harps accompany singers. Trumpets, cymbals and “stringed instruments” were also employed in the worship service (1 Chronicles 15:16; 16:42; and 25:1).

There are dozens and dozens of scriptural references, from Genesis to Revelation, regarding who we should worship and when and where we should worship, but there is scant evidence as to exactly how we worship. However, we do know they bowed, they prostrated themselves, they praised God, they gave offerings and they sang and played songs of praise to God while worshipping.

My thought is that if someone does not want to here a musical instrument played, find the church which does not allow it to be played and make that your place of worship.
 
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I here you Grant but I also would encourage you to consider that David was allowed to prepare the plans for the temple and its worship services—and they were very detailed. He arranged to have players of harps accompany singers. Trumpets, cymbals and “stringed instruments” were also employed in the worship service (1 Chronicles 15:16; 16:42; and 25:1).

There are dozens and dozens of scriptural references, from Genesis to Revelation, regarding who we should worship and when and where we should worship, but there is scant evidence as to exactly how we worship. However, we do know they bowed, they prostrated themselves, they praised God, they gave offerings and they sang and played songs of praise to God while worshipping.

I heartily agree, except that Grant has said that what has been important to the Old Testament assembly/Church, with the exception of enjoying a type of "wave and heave offerings", it has no bearing on the Church of today.

My thought is that if someone does not want to here a musical instrument played, find the church which does not allow it to be played and make that your place of worship.

I agree, except that when there is a separation like that within the Body of Christ, it is not a good thing. Jesus spoke out against sectarianism.
 
I heartily agree, except that Grant has said that what has been important to the Old Testament assembly/Church, with the exception of enjoying a type of "wave and heave offerings", it has no bearing on the Church of today.



I agree, except that when there is a separation like that within the Body of Christ, it is not a good thing. Jesus spoke out against sectarianism.

That is why I have been using Old Test. Scriptures that say differently. Old Testament worship foreshadowed and symbolized true worship, and the substance has always been to point toward Christ. It was Christ who fulfilled the symbolic Old Testament worship with a new spiritual worship.

If we look deeply into the Revelation we can see symbolic references to Old Testament worship of incense, altar, sacrifices, and instrumental music which IMO are all symbols for true worship — New Testament worship. But that is just me.

Secondly, that is true but there are times when it is better to be with those who believe as you do than it is to be in conflict with those who do not think as you do.

Now I am no expert on this at all, but I have in the past done a little work on this, not using musical instruments in worship services. I had a young lady many years ago that brought this up in conversation so I did some research. Again, Grant may not agree with this but it seems that the use of musical instruments was seen as a Catholic innovation, and on those grounds alone it was opposed and continues to be opposed by some Christian denominations today.

Now, not doing something because Catholics do is a Protestant innovation to be sure and its roots go back as far as the RCC itself.
 
I'm going to do something I never do....I'm just reading the last page. And I find I agree with everyone, particularly @aha. I'm not musically inclined, altho I love music - it moves me. I often sing as part of my daily prayers, albeit I don't have a good singing voice. I can play chopsticks, heart and soul, and a third tune but otherwise I don't have any instrument ability. And yet Amazing Grace moves me to tears. I think when you listen, sing, play with the Holy Spirit - you are worshipping God. It IS the truth we follow and that can be found in hymns and rock songs. Would God restrict us from this? I don't think so. The book of Psalms is ALL hymns with musical direction. I just bought a shofar which is a lot harder to play in reality then I thought in theory - Go figure. It was a shofar and shouts that brought down Jericho's walls.
As for parables - there are over 200+ figures of speech in the bible. It doesn't mean you can't take them literally. You have to have eyes to see and ears to hear given us by the Holy Spirit.
Even tho it isn't December - I defy you to say there is no worship here:

 
I'm going to do something I never do....I'm just reading the last page. And I find I agree with everyone, particularly @aha. I'm not musically inclined, altho I love music - it moves me. I often sing as part of my daily prayers, albeit I don't have a good singing voice. I can play chopsticks, heart and soul, and a third tune but otherwise I don't have any instrument ability. And yet Amazing Grace moves me to tears. I think when you listen, sing, play with the Holy Spirit - you are worshipping God. It IS the truth we follow and that can be found in hymns and rock songs. Would God restrict us from this? I don't think so. The book of Psalms is ALL hymns with musical direction. I just bought a shofar which is a lot harder to play in reality then I thought in theory - Go figure. It was a shofar and shouts that brought down Jericho's walls.
As for parables - there are over 200+ figures of speech in the bible. It doesn't mean you can't take them literally. You have to have eyes to see and ears to hear given us by the Holy Spirit.
Even tho it isn't December - I defy you to say there is no worship here:


Actually it was obedience unto God that brought down the walls.
Blow a sound one to many and they would have missed it. Marched or yelled out side of Gods directions and they would have missed it. Obedience unto God and His word unto them is what brought the walls down.
God Bless and I truly believe you will all of a sudden begin to sound off beautifuly with your horn !! Be cool to hear it too !
Have a blessed day
Jim
 
Actually it was obedience unto God that brought down the walls.
Blow a sound one to many and they would have missed it. Marched or yelled out side of Gods directions and they would have missed it. Obedience unto God and His word unto them is what brought the walls down.
God Bless and I truly believe you will all of a sudden begin to sound off beautifuly with your horn !! Be cool to hear it too !
Have a blessed day
Jim

Hebrews 11:30.......
"By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days."
 
Hebrews 11:30.......
"By faith the walls of Jericho fell down after they had been encircled for seven days."
Yep your right Faith in Gods word put forth by obedience unto what God told them to do.
Faith in what God said.
Faith that what God said would happen.

Was Faith alone enough ? NO ! Without the obedience their Faith would not have done a thing. Faith with out works is dead. Works ? Obedient unto Gods word - another words doing what Gods word says to do and what God tells you to do. So faith alone did not get the job done.

God Bless and thank you for your reply
Jim
 
Num_20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
Num_20:10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
Num_20:11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
 
Num_20:8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
Num_20:10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
Num_20:11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.

Yea you could try to use this as an example but then again moses disobedience kept him from entering in to the promised land....
Say what you will Silk - but obedience is always going to be the key. There is always consequences for NOT obeying God. SEE VERSE 12 there silk. You might have wanted to include this as well. ;)
God Bless
Jim
 
Yes, it's a vexed question. I don't know if I would rely on logic, personally, or even suggest that logic comes into divine things. I'm not saying that you're wrong - I would just view the matter in different terms.

The truth is one whole - it's not bits and pieces. If you pick up one part of the truth, you pick up the whole truth - there's no dividing one aspect of God's truth from the rest and having it in isolation. As well as being one whole, the truth is completely consistent, with no internal contradictions. The truth is in Jesus (Ephesians 4:21). Is there any Man we can look to who is wholly, completely, unfailingly consistent? None but Jesus, who is the same as the truth which is in Him, the embodiment of Truth. That's how we can be sure that the doctrine we receive is the truth, because it's consistent with the whole of the truth. It doesn't require to be taken up in isolation to be understood. It's easy for evil persons to pick out a verse of scripture and make it say whatever they want it to say. But the fact that their doctrine is corrupt is revealed by the fact that their interpretation isn't consistent at all with the broad scope of the word of God.


What I mean by that is that if we try to apply the parables literally, we'd get nowhere. Was the Lord literally a merchant in His search for a literal pearl of great price? Is there literally treasure hidden in a field? I'm not trying to be flippant, but it does show how confused we could get if we apply parables, or elements of them, in a literal way. I know that most brethren are in no danger whatsoever of trying to apply the parables literally in their entirety, but there is a tendency to pick out what we like from them to support unscriptural ideas about practical matters. These things are spiritual in their application and meaning, and if we take the elements of them literally, we both lose the spiritual meaning, and we get into a bit of a fix. Think of how the Roman Catholic system has got so wildly astray by applying the Lord's words literally, even when not in parable form: transubstantiation.


Not at all. The parables are very precious, and a great many fundamental truths are revealed in them - the parable of the younger son is a particularly foundational one.


Yes, the Lord presents the truth to the disciples in the form of parables, so that through figures (or, you might say, types) they might understand the great truths of Christianity. Each element of a parable represents something or someone else other than what's literally spoken of. Why, out of all the things spoken of in parable form, should music and dancing be any different? This parable doesn't give us the idea of literal music instruments and literally dancing used in worship. What we see in the parable in any case isn't worship, but divine joy, the joy of divine Persons.

I think the discussion has a tendency to wander off-topic. What I hold and would state as truth is that musical instruments (or any other art or craft of man) have no place in Christian worship, in the assembly. The fact that God was praised with musical instruments in Jewish worship is undeniable. The fact that there's nothing wrong musical instruments, in themselves, is also incontestable. It's only the first point that I'm putting forward. The fact is that in the word of God where there's teaching concerning worship in the assembly, nowhere do find mentioned musical instruments, dancing, art, industry, eloquence, or oratory. Not many of us seem to think that's in any way significant, which is strange. If God looked for these things in Christian worship, it would be an oversight, to say the least, for these things not to included in His word regarding Christian worship. If even one of the aforementioned practices was mentioned in the scriptures, then perhaps we'd have a basis for including them all. But the fact is that none of them are mentioned, they're totally excluded from the page of scripture, the substance and spirit of the Word. The fact is that these things do not have the sanction of the word, but they do have the sanction of human tradition. The latter seems to have a powerful hold on Christendom, but we as real believers and spiritual persons, should not be so easily swayed by arguments of antiquity.

Grant this would be funny until you grasp that it would say Jesus just sputed out of His mouth idol and un-needed words and we know that is not true.

Parables were a way of explaining things to those around them and had a point and meaning unto the kingdom of God or how God operates and we are to operate in Christ.
The parable to the sower - was spoken unto a people who were agriculturist who understood seed and harvest and weeds and so forth. Jesus spoke of this parable to reckon the Kingdom of God and how it operates in a manner they could grasp and truth be told we all need to gain this understanding today.

If one seeks understanding of them then God will give the understanding. The Holy spirit felt it was important to include these for all of us to read and understand. OBTW if you can not grasp the parable of the sower then you wont grasp the rest and JESUS said this,.

God Bless
Jim
 
That is why I have been using Old Test. Scriptures that say differently. Old Testament worship foreshadowed and symbolized true worship, and the substance has always been to point toward Christ. It was Christ who fulfilled the symbolic Old Testament worship with a new spiritual worship.

If we look deeply into the Revelation we can see symbolic references to Old Testament worship of incense, altar, sacrifices, and instrumental music which IMO are all symbols for true worship — New Testament worship. But that is just me.

Secondly, that is true but there are times when it is better to be with those who believe as you do than it is to be in conflict with those who do not think as you do.

Now I am no expert on this at all, but I have in the past done a little work on this, not using musical instruments in worship services. I had a young lady many years ago that brought this up in conversation so I did some research. Again, Grant may not agree with this but it seems that the use of musical instruments was seen as a Catholic innovation, and on those grounds alone it was opposed and continues to be opposed by some Christian denominations today.

Now, not doing something because Catholics do is a Protestant innovation to be sure and its roots go back as far as the RCC itself.
Using logic, I would assume that on the frontier of the Colonies and later the U.S. and Canada (where the largest expansion of Protestant faith occurred) and even the early centuries A.D. in Europe, there were very few people who could afford to have a musical instrument to use in any worship services. The early church met in people's houses usually, and the likelihood of having instruments would have been slim. So I would think Paul, Peter and John would not have needed to write about musical instruments since there really weren't very many to start with. These three didn't set down very many specific parameters for worship and, the way I read and understand their writings, they speak very much of the individual churches functioning thru the leading of the Holy Spirit.
One of the great things about the letters to the churches in the Bible is that we get glimpses of the troubles and challenges, and the commendable practices, of the early churches. Even though the same Gospel was preached in each, they were still very different based on culture alone.
 
Even tho it isn't December

that reminds me of another Christmas song, related to the topic....

I think I will not, ever, tell that little drummer boy that his drumming is not “good enough”….

My thought, a brotherly reminder: doing so can be a potential stumbling block…


on a biased note: I used to be a little drummer boy on a Christmas presentation when I was a kid : )



Little Drummer Boy
Come they told me, pa rum pum pam pm
A new born King to see, pa rum pum pum pum
Our finest gifts we bring, pa rum pum pum pum
To lay before the King, pa rum pum pum pum,
rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,

So to honour Him, pa rum pum pum pum,
When we come.

Little Baby, pa rum pum pum pum
I am a poor boy too, pa rum pum pum pum
I have no gift to bring, pa rum pum pum pum
That's fit to give a king, pa rum pum pum

rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,

Shall I play for you, pa rum pum pum pum,
On my drum?



Mary nodded, pa rum pum pum pum
The ox and lamb kept time, pa rum pum pum pum
I played my drum for Him, pa rum pum pum pum
I played my best for Him, pa rum pum pum pum,

rum pum pum pum, rum pum pum pum,

Then He smiled at me, pa rum pum pum pum
Me and my drum.
 
Using logic, I would assume that on the frontier of the Colonies and later the U.S. and Canada (where the largest expansion of Protestant faith occurred) and even the early centuries A.D. in Europe, there were very few people who could afford to have a musical instrument to use in any worship services. The early church met in people's houses usually, and the likelihood of having instruments would have been slim. So I would think Paul, Peter and John would not have needed to write about musical instruments since there really weren't very many to start with. These three didn't set down very many specific parameters for worship and, the way I read and understand their writings, they speak very much of the individual churches functioning thru the leading of the Holy Spirit.
One of the great things about the letters to the churches in the Bible is that we get glimpses of the troubles and challenges, and the commendable practices, of the early churches. Even though the same Gospel was preached in each, they were still very different based on culture alone.

Agreed!
 
Grant this would be funny until you grasp that it would say Jesus just sputed out of His mouth idol and un-needed words and we know that is not true.

Parables were a way of explaining things to those around them and had a point and meaning unto the kingdom of God or how God operates and we are to operate in Christ.
The parable to the sower - was spoken unto a people who were agriculturist who understood seed and harvest and weeds and so forth. Jesus spoke of this parable to reckon the Kingdom of God and how it operates in a manner they could grasp and truth be told we all need to gain this understanding today.

If one seeks understanding of them then God will give the understanding. The Holy spirit felt it was important to include these for all of us to read and understand. OBTW if you can not grasp the parable of the sower then you wont grasp the rest and JESUS said this,.

God Bless
Jim
Matt. 13:10-13..........
10 "Then the disciples came and said to him, “Why do you speak to them in parables?” “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, aeven what he has will be taken away. seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."
 
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