Speaking In Tongues

(Wondering why I get no alerts :().
First off neither Mark, Luke or Paul were one of the eleven. I do not even want to go to whether Matthew actually wrote that gospel. So, in answer to your question, Michael - no Mark was not one of the original Disciples/Apostles.
Michael, you told me you have had a lot of success in getting others to speak in tongues, and I know this fuels your enthusiasm. I, now understand thru you and your sincerity, that what you do is good for you. I said already once in this thread - it can sound prideful to others. Saying that speaking in tongues, makes you more "annointed" "more spiritual" and "more effective praying" than others who don't speak in tongues causes this impression and it simply isn't true. When the Apostles were first filled with the Holy Spirit - their "speaking in tongues" was just the opposite of what you are saying - everyone who heard the Apostles speak heard the message in their own native language/tongue. Given the damage JustPassing has noted, I too thought it was more damaging. I can accept that it is personal proof, now, to some but some do not need it.

That is not what I said Silk. I said someone that spends time with God singing, quoting psalms, Praying, and even tongues stay filled with the spirit like the scripture said......."Be ye not filled with wine........ but filled with the spirit singing songs....."

Someone that spends time with God would be more anointed than someone that does not and hence why there is a scripture about it.

How do I get misunderstood so easy??

Tongues however allows you to pray past what you know naturally.
I gave examples of that.

Now if the things of God were so hard to receive then I would not be saying these things. If I don't receive from God, then I ask myself. Did I really take time to mediate on the scriptures? Did I really seek? Did I believe I received or was I waiting on something to happen?



Blessings.
 
Michael - surely you know you can be filled with the Holy Spirit when you are not doing any of the things you noted in your post? In your lexicon, if we do nothing but the above mentioned activities, we are "more anointed"? This goes down the same road as I am a better Christian than you. I am more filled with Holy Spirit than you....I am more righteous. etc etc. Then it gets to I am more saved then you. You see that don't you?
 
MichaelH says:
Tongues however allows you to pray past what you know naturally.
I gave examples of that.
Now if the things of God were so hard to receive then I would not be saying these things. If I don't receive from God, then I ask myself. Did I really take time to mediate on the scriptures? Did I really seek? Did I believe I received or was I waiting on something to happen?


I pray "thy will be done" that covers anything I don't know/understand.

The last paragraph makes no sense to me. I take it you are talking about speaking in tongues? What JustPassing and Major are saying is there is a long line of people whose faith was severely damaged because they sincerely asked for the gift of tongues and did not get it no matter how hard they tried. It weakens peoples faith to feel they have to force speaking in tongues or pretend.
 
Michael - surely you know you can be filled with the Holy Spirit when you are not doing any of the things you noted in your post? In your lexicon, if we do nothing but the above mentioned activities, we are "more anointed"? This goes down the same road as I am a better Christian than you. I am more filled with Holy Spirit than you....I am more righteous. etc etc. Then it gets to I am more saved then you. You see that don't you?

Silk, why you giving me a hard time? I know I can be a jerk, I understand. However, this time I am not trying.

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
(Eph 5:18)

If you have to be filled, then is it possible to have lesser anointing when your not filled?
Or being more filled with the Spirit does nothing, same power, same anointing?
 
Silk, why you giving me a hard time? I know I can be a jerk, I understand. However, this time I am not trying.

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
(Eph 5:18)

If you have to be filled, then is it possible to have lesser anointing when your not filled?
Or being more filled with the Spirit does nothing, same power, same anointing?

I am not giving you a hard time, honestly. When we accept Christ, we are filled with the Holy Spirit. It's not like running out of gas. We can choose not to listen, at times, but we are still anointed, still saved. Our faith grows - yes! Praying, scriptures, speaking in tongues help that growth. But you cannot earn God's love, nor can you lose it. It is already yours! The scripture above does not tell me that speakers in tongues are more anything to me. Nor does it say their tank is more full than mine.
 
Truly, MichaelH - I get what you are saying (now). But you are not listening to experienced voices who are saying that speaking in tongues has long been a problem/controversial because people being people, when they get into denominations that require it - will force, imitate, pretend or fail getting this "gift". The original 11 when they spoke in tongues - spoke so everyone would understand the message.
 
When we are saved we receive the Holy Spirit, simply put, we have the Spirit, when we are "baptized" with the Spirit, simply put, He has us, now here is the problem, ...I have observed, people that claim to be baptized with the Holy Spirit making Him out to be a clown, gibbering, falling over, rolling on the floor, laughing, croaking like frogs, running laps around the sanctuary, shaking, crying and the list goes on, and people telling them, teaching them they have to do one or more of these antics to show they are filled with the Holy Spirit, i.e. that He has them and these antics are caused by the Holy Spirit(?), but when I read the account of the Spirit filled first century church in the book of Acts I don't see any of those types of manifestations recorded.....?

On the contrary, Paul teaches us to be filled with the Holy Spirit is to manifest His Agape love, whereas the gifts are to be used for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying the Body of Christ, now please tell me how the above mentioned list of manifestations perfect the saints for the ministry and edification the Body of Christ.

Gene
 
Truly, MichaelH - I get what you are saying (now). But you are not listening to experienced voices who are saying that speaking in tongues has long been a problem/controversial because people being people, when they get into denominations that require it - will force, imitate, pretend or fail getting this "gift". The original 11 when they spoke in tongues - spoke so everyone would understand the message.

I can't help what other denominations do to people. Apostolics believe that if you don't speak in tongues, then your not saved. I never said anything like that.

All I am saying is that we have lots of opinions about something people have not even taken the time to seek from God. I have been speaking in tongues for years and can help whoever wants the help.

I would rather hear from the guy that lays hands on the sick and gets them healed. Not the guy that says Healing is passed away and you just never know what God might do next.

I want to listen to the guy that knows. Not everyone is like that. Just saying.
 
I can't help what other denominations do to people. Apostolics believe that if you don't speak in tongues, then your not saved. I never said anything like that.

All I am saying is that we have lots of opinions about something people have not even taken the time to seek from God. I have been speaking in tongues for years and can help whoever wants the help.

I would rather hear from the guy that lays hands on the sick and gets them healed. Not the guy that says Healing is passed away and you just never know what God might do next.

I want to listen to the guy that knows. Not everyone is like that. Just saying.

That is mostly what convinced me in talking to you Michael, I can feel you believe this gift is open and freely given to all but I still see it as a personal confirmation. I probably am the most guilty - I did look into on clips from the internet. I saw film clips of people sounding (what's a good word?) unpleasant to the ear. But I was never in the room with it, so if there was a rise in spiritual energy, it would probably make a huge difference to me because I know I can feel that. What bothers me most is no understanding - no translators. God already knows what's in my heart, the Holy Spirit/God does not need to converse with Himself without my understanding. But you say you eventually understand what you pray, if not at the time, after. The early clips I heard do not sound quite the same as the ABC report, altho similar, they don't sound as unpleasant as the ones made in the 60's. I wonder about this - is it imitation has changed it? the message? the early clips don't show anyone rolling on the floor - sometimes it's just an audio tho. For me? I need to understand - and I give no special points to Anokian, anymore than I do someone who speaks ancient Greek. I understand the joy you speak of - all personal confirmations give that. Who said healing has passed? I see and hear of miracles all the time. It is always awesome. Some we barely notice they can be so mundane. But we don't understand the process by which these are granted, to who and why?
 
That is mostly what convinced me in talking to you Michael, I can feel you believe this gift is open and freely given to all but I still see it as a personal confirmation. I probably am the most guilty - I did look into on clips from the internet. I saw film clips of people sounding (what's a good word?) unpleasant to the ear. But I was never in the room with it, so if there was a rise in spiritual energy, it would probably make a huge difference to me because I know I can feel that. What bothers me most is no understanding - no translators. God already knows what's in my heart, the Holy Spirit/God does not need to converse with Himself without my understanding. But you say you eventually understand what you pray, if not at the time, after. The early clips I heard do not sound quite the same as the ABC report, altho similar, they don't sound as unpleasant as the ones made in the 60's. I wonder about this - is it imitation has changed it? the message? the early clips don't show anyone rolling on the floor - sometimes it's just an audio tho. For me? I need to understand - and I give no special points to Anokian, anymore than I do someone who speaks ancient Greek. I understand the joy you speak of - all personal confirmations give that. Who said healing has passed? I see and hear of miracles all the time. It is always awesome. Some we barely notice they can be so mundane. But we don't understand the process by which these are granted, to who and why?

The 60's? That was a few years ago. I mean, given your limited exposure it would be hard to sort with just those few experiences. If you went to one of those hang off the rafters, roll all over the floor places where they all speak tongues then I am sure it would be common as sliced bread and you would be on my side saying Preach it Mike!!!

I first saw tongues in prison, had no idea what it was. I grew up baptist and they say that type of thing is not real or passed away. The sincerity of this men and their love, plus the Miracles I saw changed my mind. Nobody put me down for not speaking tongues and nobody even bothered to ask me if I wanted to.

As for healing? by his stripes we are healed. All things Jesus said are possible to them that believe. It's not up to God, its already there for anyone that will believe. We need to spend less time asking and hoping and more time thanking and believing.

I never ask God for something I see in His Word. If he said it, then it is so and I believe it. A Lamborghini is not in scripture, I would have to ask for that. :)

Being a noob and preaching Jesus everywhere in Prison it got some folk upset. This white skin head group that was in to druid and Satan worship. It got them real upset at me in the Kitchen where I worked with them. I guess to me they needed Jesus and I seemed to be the only one in the Kitchen that knew Jesus.

After warning me to keep my mouth shut many times, one of them put bleach and window cleaner in my big cup of coffee I always sat by the station I was cooking at. I took a big gulp before I knew anything and it felt like someone just removed my lungs. I can't describe the pain, I could not even inhale hardly.

It almost put me into shock, I don't think I could move or breath. It's times like this you can't do anything physical but you can choose what you believe. You can choose to be afraid, or you can choose no fear and be strong in the Lord. We have choices and it's these Choices is where you see God move in amazing ways, or you attend a funeral. Your own or someone you love.
(Attending yours is not really optional in most cases)

See, unlike a lot of believers I meditated on these scriptures because when it comes time to lay my hands on someone sick, I don't need any doubt getting in the way. It just so happens Jesus also said something else in there.

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Mar 16:17-18)

I never planned to use that part of the scripture for myself, but there I was, trying to just get a little air and in intense pain.

I use to stand in my cell and look at my hands. I would say these hands are commissioned by Jesus to destroy cancer in peoples lives, My voice will cast out devils who torment others. My hands are anointed of the Lord to destroy all forms of sickness and heal cripples. Those are the things I would meditate on and build myself up in faith.

It just so happened I would also confess over if I drink any deadly thing, It can't harm me. Just because it was part of that passage.

I think God Jesus said that the day I drank that coffee, because when I got just enough air in I said........ "Father, forgive them, I thank you ahead of time, that you said if I drink any deadly thing, it shall not harm me. Thank you Lord.

No fear, no worry, I had confessed that scripture so long that it was more real than the fact I could no feel my lungs or breath. After I said that I was slowly able to get more air, then more. The burning was horrible but I just kept getting more air as I could.

The devil is screaming at me to get help, lay down, I knew his voice in my head. No way devil, I am going back to work, If Jesus said it would not hurt me, then bless God I am not hurt.

I did hurt but I stood straight up and walked over to my work station and started to work again. By the time I got back to my dorm, all I could taste and smell was bleach but no burning and no pain inside my stomach.

the next day I was fine. It was also that day all 7 of them were moved out of the kitchen for various reasons. None to do with me but God moved and they were all gone that next day.

It was a few months latter that blond head kid that use to run with them saw me eating. Not seen him in a long time and he asked if He could sit with me. I said fine, sit down. As soon as he sat down he started to bawl like a baby. He said he saw me drink what they put in my coffee and he said He heard what I said. He said when He saw I was fine like nothing happened he knew My Jesus was a whole lot stronger than his Satanic Worship. He said he also heard me say forgive them.

He got pulled out of the kitchen for fighting in the dorm, but he said that next day he went to church service and gave his life to Jesus and stopped hanging with those guys. He said he asked the Lord if he could just meet me one more time and He did.

So you have to understand Silk, when I see Jesus say something, to me it's just a fact. I don't try to reason it out. Others want to reason out tongues and everything else. Child like faith Sister, Moves mountains for any that will be a child.

Your a baby in spirit years, right? :)

Blessings.
 
Actually I did drink poison, not recommended though.
(if you call bleach, window cleaner and something else poison)

See this is where we are not going to agree. I don't pick and choose what I believe, I believe all of it.

So He spoke to the 11.
Where did the 11 get their information? From the Master.

What did Jesus say?

Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
(Joh 17:20)

Who Wrote Mark 16?

These signs shall follow them that shall believe. Did that just include the 11 according to what the Holy Spirit said to Mark?
Did not Jesus tell us to believe on their Word. Was not Mark part of that 11?

Paul said tongues is prayer, Pray in the spirit. Is prayer good?

So we believe, we were Baptized and these signs shall follow those that believe, not just the 11. Jesus was not concerned about the 11 not believing, so it must be for ALL us who believe on the name of Jesus. Not just the 11.

That means you and I qualify to have the Word confirmed with signs following.

Paul said despise not prophecy. Why? Because everyone must had a prophecy and most of it was not thus saith the Lord, So Paul said prove all things, hold to that which is true.

Prove all things.

How long have you honestly sought the gift of tongues?
One guy got mad at me because I told him he never sought the gift so he should not complain he does not have the gift. Seek and we find. He said he did for a full 8 weeks and I don't know what I am talking about.

8 whole weeks he is in faith. Big deal.

How many people you laid hands on and expected them to recover?

Have you proved this out yet?

How many devils have you cast out?

have you proved this out yet?
How much poison have you drank and been OK?

(don't prove this one out for we don't tempt god, but the promise is there.)

We get a whole lot of opinions and not enough stepping out and seeking God. I can promise though, you will find if you take the time to seek. God is not respecter of persons and believing on the name of Jesus has not lost any power.

It's faith. What am I willing to believe? Will the Lord find faith when He returns? If there was going to be lots of his people with faith, then he would not have asked it, so real faith must be rare.

If Tongues was not so easy to receive then I would understand where you coming from. The gift is for the Body of Christ for all that believe on the name of Jesus. If Jesus said it then it must be so.


Actually Mike, Mark 16:9-20 was not included in the two oldest manuscripts nor was it in other ancient reliable sources. So from the beginning Bible scholars have concluded that Mark ended at verse #8.

Now, do I believe that you have drunk bleach and survived.........NO. I would have to see the proof of that.
Now, do I believe that you have raised the dead back to life.........NO. I would have to see the proof of that.
Now, do I believe that you have survived a rattlesnake bite..........NO. I would have to see the proof of that.

Now, do I believe that you can speak in tongues that can not be understood. YES. That does not have to be proven as anyone can do it at anytime they choose to do so.

I am just the opposite of you Mike. I grew up in the Pentacostal belief. I saw what happens. I even di it myself because it was easy to do and it impressed everyone because I was so young. I just faked it. EASY.

IMNSHO, my fear is that tongues is sometimes a strong and successful substitute for coming to the cross. It seems to me, and from my personal experience that tongues are used as a spiritual high.

Gal.2:20 tells of our being crucified with Christ.
Rom. 6-8 tells me how to have victory over sin.

Anyone, even a lost man can speak in tongues and not have victory over sin and be crucified with Christ.

I am curious however that every person I know who believes as does Mike, ignores the historical fact that tongues did not begin at Pentacost. Recorded history as far as 1100 B.C. tells us that a young man attracted historical infamy when he became possessed by a god and began to make sounds in a strange ecstatic tongue.

Seven hundred years later, the Greek philosopher Plato demonstrated that he was well acquainted with the phenomenon of speaking in tongues as he referred to several families who practiced ecstatic speech, praying and utterings while supposedly possessed. He also pointed out that these practices had even brought physical healing to those who engaged in them. This does NOT mean of course that one practising speaking in tongues as seen today is possessed or not saved and I did not state this for that reason. I am just pointing out that speaking in tongues did not begin at Pentacost with the coming of the Holy Spirit. When God confused the languages of His people who were rebelling at Babel in Genesis 11, they also spoke in “new tongues” and note this happened without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I guess am I just trying to sound a warning that everyone, even Mike should be careful of what they are doing and KNOW what it is that are doing. Study, and education is power because the more we learn the closer and more precious becomes the TRUTH of God's Word.

Allow me to tell you that the speaking in "tongues" as we see it today did not come about as a result of studying the Bible. It just out of the blue and happened. It should be of extreme concern to all Christians, because as already shown, it is not uniquely a Christian practice by any means. Various studies have revealed that speaking in tongues is present in non-Christian religions all around the world. It is practiced in China, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Siberia, Arabia, Burma, and Arctic regions just to name a few. Glossolalia (speaking in un-intelligible utterances) is found among the Eskimos, Japanese séances in Hokkaido, in a small cult led by Genji Yanagide of Moji City, the shamans in Ethiopia in the zar cult and various spirits in Haitian Voodoo and is also found extensively in African tribal religions.

It is something that needs to be carefully considered not done just because it feels good to do it.
 
Michael - surely you know you can be filled with the Holy Spirit when you are not doing any of the things you noted in your post? In your lexicon, if we do nothing but the above mentioned activities, we are "more anointed"? This goes down the same road as I am a better Christian than you. I am more filled with Holy Spirit than you....I am more righteous. etc etc. Then it gets to I am more saved then you. You see that don't you?

Absolutely correct my dear. It speaks of pride. "See how good friends me and God are, we even speak the same language.....do you?"
 
Silk, why you giving me a hard time? I know I can be a jerk, I understand. However, this time I am not trying.

And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
(Eph 5:18)

If you have to be filled, then is it possible to have lesser anointing when your not filled?
Or being more filled with the Spirit does nothing, same power, same anointing?

Mike........no one is giving you a hard time. My thinking is that you came to this web site looking for truth. Now, truth = reality.

IF you are feeling as if you are having a hard time, do you think maybe it is the Holy Spirit trying to teach truth through his children?
Just sayin, we learn when we listen.
 
And here we have the problem with all this:
there is the hype and anecdotes, and then there is hard, cold reality
for example
Flamboyant Pentecostal preacher Mark Randall “Mack” Wolford,
who was one of the last serpent-handling preachers of his kind
in the U.S., passed away on Sunday after being bitten by one of
his snakes, according to the Washington Post.
The Washington Post Magazine profiled Wolford in November of 2011,
telling of his ongoing faith in his ministry in spite of his own
father’s death by snakebite in 1983.
Wolford was holding a outdoor service at Panther Wildlife Management
Area in his native West Virginia when he was bitten. The pastor
promoted the event on Facebook on May 22, calling it “a homecoming
like the old days. Good ’ole raised in the holler or mountain ridge
running, Holy Ghost-filled speaking-in-tongues sign believers.”
 
And here we have the problem with all this:
there is the hype and anecdotes, and then there is hard, cold reality
for example
Flamboyant Pentecostal preacher Mark Randall “Mack” Wolford,
who was one of the last serpent-handling preachers of his kind
in the U.S., passed away on Sunday after being bitten by one of
his snakes, according to the Washington Post.
The Washington Post Magazine profiled Wolford in November of 2011,
telling of his ongoing faith in his ministry in spite of his own
father’s death by snakebite in 1983.
Wolford was holding a outdoor service at Panther Wildlife Management
Area in his native West Virginia when he was bitten. The pastor
promoted the event on Facebook on May 22, calling it “a homecoming
like the old days. Good ’ole raised in the holler or mountain ridge
running, Holy Ghost-filled speaking-in-tongues sign believers.”

LOL>......Reminds me of the old farmer who wanted to buy rat poision from the hardware store. The owner would not sell it to the farmer because he said the farmer did not know how to use it. The farmer took the store owner to court and won. The judge said that the store owner could not refuse selling the rat posion to the farmer.

Next day's news paper on front page.........."Don Williams, local farmer dies at home from rat poisioning."
 
Actually Mike, Mark 16:9-20 was not included in the two oldest manuscripts nor was it in other ancient reliable sources. So from the beginning Bible scholars have concluded that Mark ended at verse #8.

OK, I see. Now Mark 16 is not even valid. Be blessed Major.
 
I would not say I am new in the spirit, Michael, but I do try to see with "new eyes" every day. And as I grow older, I do grow more child like in my faith.

My experience with speaking in tongues is limited, as I have said. I listened to clips that were taken in the 50's right thru the 90's. I'm guessing they are all still available on the internet. I "heard" a difference and wondered if anyone else, more familiar with older and the ABC report heard the same - that's all. The singing in tongues is new to me. It wasn't mentioned when I looked.

Personal confirmation is meant for the individual in understanding God. I was a dual major in college: psychology and sociology. "Group think" can over ride what we know/reality to be true. I had never seen speaking in tongues to be a personal confirmation, even. Now I do.
 
I would not say I am new in the spirit, Michael, but I do try to see with "new eyes" every day. And as I grow older, I do grow more child like in my faith.

My experience with speaking in tongues is limited, as I have said. I listened to clips that were taken in the 50's right thru the 90's. I'm guessing they are all still available on the internet. I "heard" a difference and wondered if anyone else, more familiar with older and the ABC report heard the same - that's all. The singing in tongues is new to me. It wasn't mentioned when I looked.

Personal confirmation is meant for the individual in understanding God. I was a dual major in college: psychology and sociology. "Group think" can over ride what we know/reality to be true. I had never seen speaking in tongues to be a personal confirmation, even. Now I do.

LOL.........As I grow older I get less and less hair on my head and more and more fat in my front.

Silk, as I posted, I was brought up in the Pentecostal faith and I have seen more things take place than you can think of in a church.

Most of it happens on a prayer night when we would gather to pray for our brethren's needs. It was then when the testimonies and explanations would start. For along time I wondered why I didn't speak in tongues or have one of these fantastic experiences to tell.
Then one day while still a teenager it occurred to me that all of these stories and testimonies were exaggerated so as to sound more fantastic than someone else's story.
 
I wanted to say, Major. I thought what you said in post #71 was brave and therefore very powerful.
 
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