What I do not understand is why the attacks on me personally? I don't know what Calvinists believes to be able to quote them. I also do not listen to many "preachers" and I can honestly say I've never listened to any of Copeland's sermons. So the thoughts you have toward me are expressed as only you linking me with someone else. I've never said God has a crystal ball, only you have. I've only said, over and over, that God knows all. Nothing more. And you attack me with a venom I've never witness before.
Your first post about this in 139
Like it or not, you have a problem.
That was you first response to me here concerning this topic, and disrespect. It's best to listen even if you don't understand and ask questions. You don't come in assuming you know more than anyone else.
I don't post anything, unless I can back it up with all kinds of scriptures. NEVER. I cover all my bases and have heard every single argument before getting into topics that rub religion the wrong way. I just don't post without knowing what scripture someone else will mention. That is why I responded harshly. Best to just ask, and not say I have a issue.
You also have to understand Doctrines Against God that make him out to be Evil and unfeeling. You said you don't fully get Calvinism so that is fine.
Our Father is not Evil, or unfeeling. His Word shows that he is love and a Awesome and powerful God.
There are 2 Major doctrines that are opposite each other but each attempt to keep the Sovereignty of God.
Election (Calvinism)
Foreknowledge (Arminism)
Calvinism (Election)
Most here do not subscribe to Calvinism. It's a doctrine that God does not have foreknowledge because God is in control of everything and causes everything. So it's not that God see's the future, He makes the future for all people concerning all things. God picks how gets saved and who does not get saved. God picks who gets healed and not get healed.
Arminism (Foreknowledge)
This Doctrine gives man free will, but God knows what choices each man will make and God already knows the outcome of each choice. Most believe a form of this Doctrine on this Forum. God knows our childhood to our end, though we get free will and choice. God lives outside of time is an expression used by Arminist.
Monolinism:
A strange doctrine, but God knows all the alternate realities of each mans choice, allows man free choice unless one of those alternate realities is not something He wants. God then stops those alternate realities that are not part of his Grand plan.
God knowing all doesn't mean He's not in control, nor does it mean He's not giving us a choice. It means He knows all. We put rules on our children because we want to protect them, they having not enough understanding to protect themselves. Many a parent has to allow their child to suffer the consequences of their own making in the hopes they will see the truth and repent of their independence. To trust us because we love them. Because we know what'll happen, based on our own experiences, doesn't mean we can't give our children choice. God is no different. Our free will makes our obedience all the more sweeter to God. God is a Gentleman and will not force His will on us. If God wanted blind obedience, then He would have made toy robots. But we are made in His image. We have the same creative imaginative power He does towards those things around us. He never intended for us to fly, but we do because He gave us that power to imagine. He even said that nothing will stop us (
Genesis 11:6). With great power comes great responsibility and we can't handle that so God broke our means of communication. Today we are seeing prophecy (
Daniel 12:4) being fulfilled right before our eyes and most don't even realize it. We are following in the steps of the days of Noah by messing with genes.
I agree with all this but one part.
We are like God because He made us Children, and we are on his level so he can fellowship with those on his level. I understand that. He made us like Him, Angels are just created servants and God wants real children.
HOWEVER:
Though nothing will stop us, something does........... we have a life span...... We have judgement. We don't get to hang out as Ghost.
It could be why we are not allowed to run around as Ghost in spirit form, but judged.
Peter said.............. (Paraphrased) I have heard the voice of God on high, seen the Miracles, have the plan for me. Yet we have a more sure Word of Prophecy.
That means, despite each plan and race God laid out for each man, the Word of God is not conditional. It will happen just like God spake.
For some odd reason, there is NO scripture that God says he knows what each of us will be doing 5 years from now unless we stay on our pre-set race and plan. We get off the path, and we get into things God never planned or intended.
To say God knew Adam would fail (which is what started this topic) would contradict many scriptures and means God placed Adam in the Garden with knowledge of failure. At that point Adam never had a choice. God would have placed Adam in the Garden already planing and knowing Adam would fail.
That is election (Calvinism)
What we can connect scripture to is to Satan. Read this. I can only believe what I have scripture for and compare.
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; ........................... Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created,
till iniquity was found in thee.
(Eze 28:13-15)
Only 3 had been in that Garden. Adam, Eve and Mr. Devil.
God connects Satan being in the Garden with finding iniquity in him. (
This throws out my idea Satan blew it long before Adam, but I have no scripture to prove that anyway)
God did not say he knew ahead of time, or even created Satan to fail (Election V.S Foreknowledge) God said He FOUND.
Found it in the Garden when Satan messed with God's man Adam.
God creates Evil, but He never planed for it to end up evil.
And the LORD God said unto the serpent,
Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And
I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(Gen 3:14-15)
Satan put the nail in his own coffin right here. Because you have done this, you art Cursed. Jesus is also now in the plan to have to die for Mankind.
Jesus came to undo what Satan did with Adam. This is what God is telling Satan in the Garden. Death started from Adam........
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he
might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
(Heb 2:14)
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that
he might destroy the works of the devil.
I am not saying I understand everything, but I do have scriptures to compare. God never planed Adam to fall anymore than God knew or planned Satan to blow it. God found iniquity in Satan.
God is never at fault, it's his creation he gave a free will to, they blow it. It all ends the same in the end though. We win.