Raising people from dead

[GBzone]

NO! NO! and again NO!

God can do anything He wants to do but man can not.

What man can do is what he does best and that is to SIN. Men have and will do anything to deceive and trick others into makeing them believe that that have somekind of special power given to them by God.

Several years ago in the Phillipens there was a man who was said to do "Physic surgery". People would come to him and pay thousands of dollars for him to remove cancers and tumors. When he was done there was no scar. He would use his finger to open the wound and when finished wipe offe the blood.

In reality when investigated he was nothing more than a sligt of hand majician. He would "palm" chicken livers in his hand along with a small package of blood for effect. He was a CHARLATAIN, a CROOK and caused the death of thousands who were foolish enough to buy into his lies.

"Without me you can do nothing" said Jesus .
Even Jesus claimed no glory but said " the words that I speak are not my own words but the Father who is IN me HE doeth the work"
So while men claim to have this gift and that gift as if it was theirs and not the Son who is IN them (if that be what it is )who doeth the work are on the road to nowhere. For God will not share his glory with another .
Man can do more than sin. IF he is IN Christ .
For" if we walk after the Spirit we will NOT fulfil the lusts of the flesh"
Or in another place "let not sin REIGN in your mortal bodies that you obey the lusts thereof"
The Righteousness of Christ is IMPUTED to us by faith in Him.
His righteousness is IMPARTED to us by the Holy Spirit .
and is it not written that if we are His then we are "preordained from before the foundations of the world unto good works that we should walk in them"?
Thus we are also called to good works . That is good or righteous in the sight of God . that is not hay or stubble .
The potential to raise the dead is always there . For He that worketh within us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure is able to do the impossible.
But that takes a measure of faith and a working in God IN us that not many are able or willing to do or accept .
You should not therefore measure or justify your own error by anothers if that is what it was or is .

Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever . What he was he is still and will be forever more .
That what he did in the past given the same principles he will do today or can .

in Christ
Gerald

 

[Major]

The well known Christian apologist and quack-buster Walter Martin actually raised a young boy from the dead in South America or some place like that... He's not exactly the sort of person you would associate with "Miracles" like raising the dead... In fact - one of his ministries was busting quackery that was going on in the name of Christianity....

Here's the thing...

WE don't have the power in and of ourselves... WE do not wield some mystical super power....

What is going on is that God is involving His servant to declare God's Purpose and to participate as a WITNESS to God's work and to God's Glory....

AKA - when the servant is called to declare God's purpose - it's for the express purpose that the people around KNOW that God is the one doing this by declaring HIS purpose before it happens.... We are here to say "Hey, God is doing this marvelous thing as a gift to you... This is no accident. You should listen to God and glorify God"....

Thanks

May I give you something to think about?

From my experiences and reading of accounts such we are talking about, by the most part come from Word of Faith movement who claim to have raised the dead. The real concern is that credible evidence has never been produced. There has been several creditable organizations which have tried to produce creditable evidence over the years but not one case has been substantiated. The many blatantly unbiblical teachings within the Word of Faith movement raise serious doubts regarding the legitimacy of any of their miracles. As I commented earlier, this idea of raising the dead opens the door to practitioners of voodoo and witchcraft who also claim to have raised people from the dead.

If a person who was officially pronounced dead was raised back to life, it would be an amazing miracle that is for sure.

Surely if a person was raised from the dead in the name of Christ, it would convince everyone to receive Jesus as Savior. Right? Wrong.

Jesus addressed this very issue in Luke 16:30-31.....
“But if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent. . . . If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.”

Why does raising the dead not happen today? Amazing miracles are not what lead people to genuine faith. If a person is rejecting the Word of God, no miracle will convince the person to repent and receive Jesus Christ as Savior. All a miracle does is cause people to clamor for more miracles.

Matthew 12:39........
But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."

John 6:26................
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves."

 

[Major]

"Without me you can do nothing" said Jesus .
Even Jesus claimed no glory but said " the words that I speak are not my own words but the Father who is IN me HE doeth the work"
So while men claim to have this gift and that gift as if it was theirs and not the Son who is IN them (if that be what it is )who doeth the work are on the road to nowhere. For God will not share his glory with another .
Man can do more than sin. IF he is IN Christ .
For" if we walk after the Spirit we will NOT fulfil the lusts of the flesh"
Or in another place "let not sin REIGN in your mortal bodies that you obey the lusts thereof"
The Righteousness of Christ is IMPUTED to us by faith in Him.
His righteousness is IMPARTED to us by the Holy Spirit .
and is it not written that if we are His then we are "preordained from before the foundations of the world unto good works that we should walk in them"?
Thus we are also called to good works . That is good or righteous in the sight of God . that is not hay or stubble .
The potential to raise the dead is always there . For He that worketh within us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure is able to do the impossible.
But that takes a measure of faith and a working in God IN us that not many are able or willing to do or accept .
You should not therefore measure or justify your own error by anothers if that is what it was or is .

Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever . What he was he is still and will be forever more .
That what he did in the past given the same principles he will do today or can .

in Christ
Gerald

Sorry brother, I can not agree with you on this. I am sure we will be in agreement on other things, but not this one.

 

[Major]

So you are claiming only the 11 disciples were commissioned to heal? How about Acts 28:8 where Paul healed and again in Acts 14:10. And the only bridge between God and man is Jesus. So how do you explain Paul healing if you believe only the 11 had that power?

Lance, it is not so much that I am "claiming" anything. I am simply saying that it seems to me that is what the Scriptures are telling us. NO ONE has to agree with me but I would encourage all of us to read the Scriptures and see what they actually say and NOT what we want them to have said.

We know that Paul was commissioned personally by Jesus and was an Apostle later than the Great Commission and he had all of the gifts as the eleven.

Acts 28:8....
Paul was unharmed by the bite of a snake. HE was an Apostle and according to Mark 16:18....
"8 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them;"
Doesn't that prove my point??????

As for the "bridge" either you misunderstood or I did not say it correctly. The Apostles were the "scaffolding" that God used until the Word of God was completed by the Apostles. I did not mean that they were an advocate or mediator in any way. They, the Apostles were in place by God just as were prophets in Old Test. times to be the voice of God until the Bible was written.

Matthew 28:16-20.........
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Mark 16:14-18................
"Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Now what does that say to you? If you do not agree with me......I still love you and respect you and your thoughts.

 

[LanceA]

Lance, it is not so much that I am "claiming" anything. I am simply saying that it seems to me that is what the Scriptures are telling us. NO ONE has to agree with me but I would encourage all of us to read the Scriptures and see what they actually say and NOT what we want them to have said.

We know that Paul was commissioned personally by Jesus and was an Apostle later than the Great Commission and he had all of the gifts as the eleven.

Acts 28:8....
Paul was unharmed by the bite of a snake. HE was an Apostle and according to Mark 16:18....
"8 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them;"
Doesn't that prove my point??????

As for the "bridge" either you misunderstood or I did not say it correctly. The Apostles were the "scaffolding" that God used until the Word of God was completed by the Apostles. I did not mean that they were an advocate or mediator in any way. They, the Apostles were in place by God just as were prophets in Old Test. times to be the voice of God until the Bible was written.

Matthew 28:16-20.........
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Mark 16:14-18................
"Afterward he appeared to the eleven themselves as they were reclining at table, and he rebuked them for their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they had not believed those who saw him after he had risen. 15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

Now what does that say to you? If you do not agree with me......I still love you and respect you and your thoughts.

But you said only the 11 were commissioned, you can't have it both ways. It is the Holy Spirit that flows through us that gives us the power through Christ to do these things. I agree with you that prayer also helps the healing process and I have seen this first hand with a family member. But please don't discount that we as believers have the power through Christ to heal and raise the dead.

 

[LanceA]

May I give you something to think about?

From my experiences and reading of accounts such we are talking about, by the most part come from Word of Faith movement who claim to have raised the dead. The real concern is that credible evidence has never been produced. There has been several creditable organizations which have tried to produce creditable evidence over the years but not one case has been substantiated. The many blatantly unbiblical teachings within the Word of Faith movement raise serious doubts regarding the legitimacy of any of their miracles. As I commented earlier, this idea of raising the dead opens the door to practitioners of voodoo and witchcraft who also claim to have raised people from the dead.

If a person who was officially pronounced dead was raised back to life, it would be an amazing miracle that is for sure.

Surely if a person was raised from the dead in the name of Christ, it would convince everyone to receive Jesus as Savior. Right? Wrong.

Jesus addressed this very issue in Luke 16:30-31.....
“But if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent. . . . If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.”

Why does raising the dead not happen today? Amazing miracles are not what lead people to genuine faith. If a person is rejecting the Word of God, no miracle will convince the person to repent and receive Jesus Christ as Savior. All a miracle does is cause people to clamor for more miracles.

Matthew 12:39........
But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah."

John 6:26................
Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves."

There is no evidence besides the bible that Jesus or the disciples healed either. You are believing this on faith so why do you need evidence now to have faith God still heals and raises the dead?

 

[Silk]

But you said only the 11 were commissioned, you can't have it both ways. It is the Holy Spirit that flows through us that gives us the power through Christ to do these things. I agree with you that prayer also helps the healing process and I have seen this first hand with a family member. But please don't discount that we as believers have the power through Christ to heal and raise the dead.

The Holy Spirit does not give man/woman special powers to glorify ourselves. The Holy Spirit's work is to point to and glorify Christ. The errors that come out when people claim they can "channel" God's power are innumerable and are multiplied.

 

[Silk]

Scripture tells us that the eleven and Paul were commissioned by Christ to spread the gospel and scripture is written by the Holy Spirit. The apostle's work was not to heal, raise the dead but to bring people to Christ for their salvation. They were given signs and gifts to accomplish this and validate that they had the the truth - not to glorify themselves. They took no payment/donation/seed money for these things. It IS NOT the believer who heals or raises the dead but God. God doesn't need human flesh to do His work.

 

[Major]

There is no evidence besides the bible that Jesus or the disciples healed either. You are believing this on faith so why do you need evidence now to have faith God still heals and raises the dead?

Lance.....what other evidence do I need besides the Bible???? The truth is that the Bible is all I need!!

The reason evidence is needed today is because that there are very scrupulous people today who will say and do anything to make a buck. They will lie and even use the name of Jesus to do it. The point I made was that there has been no verifiable event of anyone being raised from the dead. Yes, some people have made that claim but when investigated, it has always been proven to be a hoax.

Again, I have never said that God did not heal. Quite the opposite. HE is the only One who can.

In contrast, when Jesus Jesus healed, every single event was witnessed and able to be verified by all who were there.

Are you suggesting that what is included in the Bible about Jesus healing along with the Apostles is not valid????

I am missing the point you are trying to make here. Can you help me out?

 

[GBzone]

Sorry brother, I can not agree with you on this. I am sure we will be in agreement on other things, but not this one.

At what point did we part company?

Im sure we will and do on other things . I hope so .

in Christ
gerald

 

[Major]

But you said only the 11 were commissioned, you can't have it both ways. It is the Holy Spirit that flows through us that gives us the power through Christ to do these things. I agree with you that prayer also helps the healing process and I have seen this first hand with a family member. But please don't discount that we as believers have the power through Christ to heal and raise the dead.

Sorry brother, but that is exactly what I am saying and believe. Man does not have the ability to heal and neither does he have the ability to raise anyone from the dead. That is more of a denominational teaching than it is of Bible truth.

James 5:13-16........
" Is anyone among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone cheerful? Let him sing praise. 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven. 16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working."

 

[Major]

At what point did we part company?

Im sure we will and do on other things . I hope so .

in Christ
gerald

Gerald, I did not mean that we parted. I just said I do not agree on this particular point.

We will without a doubt be in agreement on future things!

Blessings to you....Major

 

[Silk]

Gerald, I did not mean that we parted. I just said I do not agree on this particular point.

We will without a doubt be in agreement on future things!

Blessings to you...Major

Sorry, Major but I, too, am unclear on what point you disagree with Gerald as well.

 

[GBzone]

Gerald, I did not mean that we parted. I just said I do not agree on this particular point.

We will without a doubt be in agreement on future things!

Blessings to you....Major

I much prefer a conversation than typing with gaps
What I meant was at what point in my argument did you disagree with ? or with it all .

In Christ
gerald

 

[Major]

I much prefer a conversation than typing with gaps
What I meant was at what point in my argument did you disagree with ? or with it all .

In Christ
gerald

Your comment was.............
"The potential to raise the dead is always there . For He that worketh within us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure is able to do the impossible.
But that takes a measure of faith and a working in God IN us that not many are able or willing to do or accept .
You should not therefore measure or justify your own error by anothers if that is what it was or is .
Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever . What he was he is still and will be forever more .
That what he did in the past given the same principles he will do today or can ."

I understood you to be saying that we, (Man) has the ability to raise the dead. Maybe I misunderstood your comment and if I did I am so very sorry.

Then Hebrews 13:8 which you quoted actually does not apply here.........
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

That verse is frequently misunderstood. Because Jesus healed and raised the dead yesterday, does not then translate into a "man" being able to do that today. Christ is the incarnate Word and was with the Father in the beginning before the world was. As God's eternal Son He was the same in the beginning as He is today and He will be the same tomorrow. His "ATTRIBUTES" can never and will never change.

To prove that, consider the very next verse...........
"Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace not with meats which have not profited them that have been occupied therein".

Jesus also warned in Matthew 24: 4........
"Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name saying.....I am the Christ, and shall deceive many".

They are speaking about ERROR. We all have to be diligent about rightly dividing the Word of God so as to not fall into error.

 

[Major]

Sorry, Major but I, too, am unclear on what point you disagree with Gerald as well.

I answered this in comment #35 Silk.

 

[GBzone]

Your comment was.............
"The potential to raise the dead is always there . For He that worketh within us both to will and to do of HIS good pleasure is able to do the impossible.
But that takes a measure of faith and a working in God IN us that not many are able or willing to do or accept .
You should not therefore measure or justify your own error by anothers if that is what it was or is .
Jesus is the same yesterday and today and forever . What he was he is still and will be forever more .
That what he did in the past given the same principles he will do today or can ."

I understood you to be saying that we, (Man) has the ability to raise the dead. Maybe I misunderstood your comment and if I did I am so very sorry.

Then Hebrews 13:8 which you quoted actually does not apply here.........
"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever."

That verse is frequently misunderstood. Because Jesus healed and raised the dead yesterday, does not then translate into a "man" being able to do that today. Christ is the incarnate Word and was with the Father in the beginning before the world was. As God's eternal Son He was the same in the beginning as He is today and He will be the same tomorrow. His "ATTRIBUTES" can never and will never change.

To prove that, consider the very next verse...........
"Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace not with meats which have not profited them that have been occupied therein".

Jesus also warned in Matthew 24: 4........
"Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name saying.....I am the Christ, and shall deceive many".

They are speaking about ERROR. We all have to be diligent about rightly dividing the Word of God so as to not fall into error.

Thanks for the clarification.

Yet you have missed something .
"As the Father sent me so send I you "
The Father was in Christ and HE did the Work .
It is the Son who is in every believer and it is HE that doeth the work .Thus no man can boast .
Nor am I making any claims .
Yet greater works shall ye do ..... speaking to his disciples and while there is nothing greater than raising the dead .Then clearly this greater means wider in scope. For while he was called to the lost sheep of the house of Israel we are called to go into all the world.
You are right about the errors and the false christs .
But you should also be aware that eh said to one who was blind form birth "there is coming a day (and now is?) when any who say they are Christ will be cast out of the synagogue "
That does not mean people who claim they are Jesus . But Christ means anointed . There will be then false teachers and apsotles and self proclaimed apostles who will say lo here is the anointing and lo there is the anointing ect.
The eternal resting place of the Holy Spirit is the Word of God .
The true anointing then will be those who honour the Word of God as is should be honoured. and it si the annointing that destroyeth the yoke .
"As the Father sent me so send I you " How then was He sent?
If not baptised and filled with the Holy Spirit and to fulfil Issiah 58(?)
So be cl;ear then what I am saying .I am NOT saying any man will do these things .For without me no man can do anything.
But did not James speak of Elijah being a man of like passions as ourselves? and what of Paul in Hebrews in that list of men of faith?
When God spoke out of the burning bush.
The bush was not God . and God was not the bush . Yet still the bush was on fire yet not consumed.
Is it not written that it is by his mercies that w e are not consumed?
is it not written in another place it is not I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me >

God always uses men .
I have heard their cry and have come down to deliver them ...................................................GO YE!
He said to Moses .

I make no boast nor claims .But neither will I put a stumbling block in my mouth and rob myself of God doing a work that He would will I do.

He is the same yesterday today and forever.
When the seraphonecian woman cried unto the Lord "Son of David have mercy upon me" and kept doing so despite the apparent lack of response from the Lord.
The disciples made the mistake of confusing who was the bush and who was not and said "She crieth unto us............" She was not crying unto them she was crying unto the lord .
Nevertheless after the resurrection and the day of Pentecost did not Peter and John say to one crippled from birth "look on us........!"?
Yet once the man was healed and people began to look on them almost as gods .They said "why look on us!"
as if by our holiness etc has done this thing .
It was faith through His name that wrought the miracle . Not us . They had become 'co workers with God " ye it was God that did the Work in Jesus name .

In Christ
gerald

 

[Robine]

I believe that miracles happen today. But it´s important to be careful. I am not careful just to believe that some miracle happened but I am also very careful to reject it.

 

[Ravindran]

I was reading my daily Bible portion and came across this portion. I think it is quite appropriate for this discussion. We should never look at the signs and wonders to authenticate a ministry. Bible is very clear about that. Many can do wonders in the name of Jesus. But in the last day, Jesus will ask who are you!! We should look only at the fruits of a person. If someone proclaims that they have brought dead back to life, that does not give an automatic validation to their ministry. We still need to validate their teachings against Word of God and see if there are any contradictions.

Luke 19
27 “Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. 28 For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’
29 “But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’
30 “The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’
31 “But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
y little in faith here and that is all the problem! Because

 

[Ravindran]

Let me break my silence I think it is not fair to say because spiritual gifts are valid today, we should expect people to be raised from death today also. Raising people from death is not a spiritual gift.. Signs and wonders are different from spiritual gifts.. Both are operated through empowerment by Holy Spirit.. The purpose is quite different..

I believe Spiritual Gifts are operational today.. To build up the body of Christ.. For edification.. That's why I have a hard time to make up my mind on tongues! Nevertheless, I know my wife has a gift of prophesy. Not the "Thus sayeth the Lord" prophesy. Often Lord minsters to her through dreams. Like some thing happening to a person. And then we see the person going through a similar situation. She used to wonder what should be her response. I always encouraged her to pray about them and for them. After she started doing, she started feeling that peace that she is responding to Lord in the right way. I have had very few such experiences. At the same time, I am not going to claim my wife can predict who is going to win the election! She is not a fortune teller

Coming to signs and wonders. The name itself tells everything. it is a sign. It has to point to something! We will notice all the mighty miracles crowded around certain times in history. Exodus/calling of nation of Israel, age of Prophets, establishment of new covenant, completion of scripture/establishment of Church. The signs and wonders were needed to authenticate men who brought about such major changes. It served a special purpose. It was not intended to be the norm.

So we are not expected to pray to raise up death at a funeral. We cannot say, people participating in funeral or lacking faith!