Rightly Dividing vs My Strong Opinion

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MatthewG said:
You guys believe that the world is going to end?

If so what gives you this idea or who taught you about these things? Most people do not know anything until something is taught to them. Though some might claim the Bible told me so.

Just curious to you brothers in Christ Jesus your thoughts about if the world will end one day? Or do you believe in one world government? It would be interesting to hear your perspectives.

Thank you.
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2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

This is but one of the places where we are told about the Day of the Lord, the span of which is understood to be from the advent of the anti-Christ through to the end of the Millennium.

Do you have reason to doubt there will be an end to this fallen world?

MM
 
Also, MG, see this:

Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Yes. We are taught these things...right from the Bible. We don't need men to teach us this as we can read it for ourselves, and be corrected by the Spirit of the Lord.

Now, I don't doubt that there are some out there who would claim 2 Peter and Revelation can't be taken literally since they are allegedly allegorical, and therefore speak only of the earth as a reference to all the peoples on it...or whatever imagery they define from some unidentified dictionary of understanding they may be utilizing as the blunt weapon of choice to pound the scriptures down into an unintelligible, bloody mass of an unrecognizable, mangled heap that only a hand full of people can understand who are allegedly the only ones walking in the spirit.

So, I'm not here to teach you, but rather point you to the scriptures, and you can accept them by whatever system of interpretation you so desire. Personally, I tend to think the Lord speaks quite clearly to us who are saved by His Grace, and who are therefore filled with His Spirit. In other words, I don't want to give the impression to you that you should lapse into the hopelessness of always and forever viewing the scriptures as an enigmatic tangle of spiritual gobbledeegook intended to be understood only by the self-proclaimed sages of spirituality. There is hope, and that hope is found only in the Lord and His word to us. Seek Him, and He will give to you His truth.

MM
 
Yes, the reason is because there will never be an end to the Lords Kingdom.

This is my belief, which stand firmly on, personally, also believe that all scripture has been fulfilled from Genesis to revelation. Not a (pertrist or whatever) cause I don’t even know what they believe in.

And am okay if people think otherwise on, and love should always be first.

People will be entering it forever, when they turn towards God and the Lord Jesus Christ in their own time, in or after this life in my best estimation for all people will be resurrected, though some will be inside the kingdom and some will be outside the kingdom.

There will always be a coming of the Lord at your own personal death. A person at death goes on to God, and God gives them their received spiritual body be it corruption or life (for there are two resurrection.)

The reason the world always go onwards even after our own death is because of the Lords word never passing away.
 
MatthewG said:
You guys believe that the world is going to end?

If so what gives you this idea or who taught you about these things? Most people do not know anything until something is taught to them. Though some might claim the Bible told me so.

Just curious to you brothers in Christ Jesus your thoughts about if the world will end one day? Or do you believe in one world government? It would be interesting to hear your perspectives.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

Oh, and when you asked about one world government:

Revelation 13:11-17

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It seems reasonable that only a world ruler, the one who is over the one world government, could accomplish this since the text does not tell us that the beast "suggests" these things to autonomous, sovereign governments still in existence.

Daniel also spoke of this, and so I leave this to your own personal study and interpretation. This is offered only in the spirit of sharing.

MM
 
MatthewG said:
Yes, the reason is because there will never be an end to the Lords Kingdom.

This is my belief, which stand firmly on, personally, also believe that all scripture has been fulfilled from Genesis to revelation. Not a (pertrist or whatever) cause I don’t even know what they believe in.

And am okay if people think otherwise on, and love should always be first.

People will be entering it forever, when they turn towards God and the Lord Jesus Christ in their own time, in or after this life in my best estimation for all people will be resurrected, though some will be inside the kingdom and some will be outside the kingdom.

There will always be a coming of the Lord at your own personal death. A person at death goes on to God, and God gives them their received spiritual body be it corruption or life (for there are two resurrection.)

The reason the world always go onwards even after our own death is because of the Lords word never passing away.
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So, where on this earth is the lion laying down with the lamb, and what place exists where a child may stick their hand into a venomous snake nest and not get bitten and die, or are those images also purely symbolic? I ask because I can't figure out how to etherealize such language into saying something other than what it says. I lack in that skill.

MM
 
MatthewG said:
You guys believe that the world is going to end?

If so what gives you this idea or who taught you about these things? Most people do not know anything until something is taught to them. Though some might claim the Bible told me so.

Just curious to you brothers in Christ Jesus your thoughts about if the world will end one day? Or do you believe in one world government? It would be interesting to hear your perspectives.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
I would offer

In regard to the whole creation under the Sun in dying comes the end of corruption. Annihilate; convert (a subatomic particle) into radiant energy.

No Phoenix like described in Greek mythology coming from ashes. All of the courrpted rudiments will disappear

The glorious hope we can hope for having the new born again spirit awaiting for the better things that accompany salvation which all die not receiving.

Eccl 7:8 Better is the end of a thing than the beginning thereof: and the patient in spirit is better than the proud in spirit.

The kingdoms of this world will then become the kingdom of God .We are under one world government. Satan is the god of this world.

It seems he would try with lying wonders and deceive the world he was not the ruler of this corrupted worldas he hides behind men (antichrists) .

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

No signs are given .We can watch like Noah but it does not change his format he will come when not expected (day, hour or year). And in the twinkling of the eye receive the promise as the end of the matter.
 
I can’t answer your question, for Myself is lacking there to, Simply believe that all of what the 7 churches read about happened and is over, it would be really hard to change my mind on belief that was announced.

Thank for your comment and wonderance by your question musicmaster.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Garee, believe we all have different takes and it is totally okay.

Thank God and the Lord Jesus Christ for all they have done for all of humanity, oh how great and loving our God is, along with mercy and forgiveness and grace, always patient and kindness of course he is righteous and holy for we will never be like him, and he judges the hearts of men correctly and justly.
 
Musicmaster said:
So, where on this earth is the lion laying down with the lamb, and what place exists where a child may stick their hand into a venomous snake nest and not get bitten and die, or are those images also purely symbolic? I ask because I can't figure out how to etherealize such language into saying something other than what it says. I lack in that skill.

MM
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I would think the words are literal as literature . But what do they signify and convey in a spirutual sence , or a sence of faith found in the parables?
How do we find faith ?

That as signifed "a lion laying down with the lamb, and what place exists where a child may stick their hand into a venomous snake nest and not get bitten and die" It would seem to represent the new order. ("No death) .Under the Sun used to indicate the end ot time is used 27 times in Eccesliastes.
 
MatthewG said:
I can’t answer your question, for Myself is lacking there to, Simply believe that all of what the 7 churches read about happened and is over, it would be really hard to change my mind on belief that was announced.

Thank for your comment and wonderance by your question musicmaster.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Garee, believe we all have different takes and it is totally okay.

Thank God and the Lord Jesus Christ for all they have done for all of humanity, oh how great and loving our God is, along with mercy and forgiveness and grace, always patient and kindness of course he is righteous and holy for we will never be like him, and he judges the hearts of men correctly and justly.
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Oh, I agree with you that those letters to those seven churches were written and delivered, and those cities in what is now modern day Turkey are rubble and ruin. No argument there. What we can glean from those is that those churches, and what the Lord said to them, serve as wise counsel and reprimand for us today. We can learn much from them.

What I question, however, is your practice of forcing the over-arching concept of relegating the rest of the book of Revelation as being past and fulfilled.

Why do I have doubts about your take on it?

Well, simply the basis of the difference between John writing about what He saw in Heaven (which places those events outside the constraints of time), versus what he wrote to seven literal churches on this earth that he could have walked up to and encountered the very people of whom those letters spoke...had he been a free man at the time.

Revelation speaks of the islands "fleeing," or sunk under the ocean waters as it is understood. It's also stated that the mountains will be leveled. Yes, there are those who spiritualize all that into oblivion into saying something other than what it says. You can follow them if you so choose. I'm not here to take that from you, but I would also hope that you don't deny me the right to ask questions, because what you're saying creates more problems that you have thus far stated you can't answer.

I would encourage you to seek those answers so that you can then say that you have solid reasoning for believing what you say you believe. As it stands, you don't have a solid foundation for your beliefs that would even encourage me to accept your take on these things. There is truth, and when we stop seeking the truth, we may as well lay down and die.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Oh, and when you asked about one world government:

Revelation 13:11-17

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. 12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. 16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

It seems reasonable that only a world ruler, the one who is over the one world government, could accomplish this since the text does not tell us that the beast "suggests" these things to autonomous, sovereign governments still in existence.

Daniel also spoke of this, and so I leave this to your own personal study and interpretation. This is offered only in the spirit of sharing.

MM
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I would think we are under one world govenemnt since the fall in the garden (Geneisis) ,The man of sin "Satan" has been revealed . Its why we are warned in 1 John 2:27 .

The kingdoms or sects of this world will become his in the new heavens and earth. The beast is non converted mankind.
 
Garee said:
I would think we are under one world govenemnt since the fall in the garden (Geneisis) ,The man of sin "Satan" has been revealed . Its why we are warned in 1 John 2:27 .

The kingdoms or sects of this world will become his in the new heavens and earth. The beast is non converted mankind.
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Garee, if only you could read Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic, and then come back and say all this, you would then have something solid under your feet. Reliance upon the weaknesses of English translations almost guarantees lack in dredging the depths.

Please delve more deeply than what you have said. Nullifying the strength and power of the scriptures with this divisive, undiscerning stuff you just stated only castrates the word of God from implanting the seeds of growth into a mature understanding.

I also hope we don't end up feeling as though we're walking on egg shells around one another. We should call each other out onto the carpet when there is need. If I say something you don't understand or disagree, then by all means, say so. Ask for clarification or even reason as to why I believe it. I won't take offense.

MM
 
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Thank you for telling me what you think I should do. My belief is my own and no one shall take that ever away from the heart that is had for God and his desire for people to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The solid foundation is the reason for my response - There will be no end to the Lord God Almighty Kingdom. There will be no end to this earth. There will never be a time where people stop entering the Kingdom of Heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ words will always remain here for truth they will never die, and always tell all about the afterlife and about how God created the world, and man.

You can doubt my beliefs if you desire. You are welcome to hold on to your own. We are to respect and love each other regardless. Thank you for taking time to read, it is appreciated along with the conversation.
 
MatthewG said:
Thank you for telling me what you think I should do. My belief is my own and no one shall take that ever away from the heart that is had for God and his desire for people to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The solid foundation is the reason for my response - There will be no end to the Lord God Almighty Kingdom. There will be no end to this earth. There will never be a time where people stop entering the Kingdom of Heaven. The Lord Jesus Christ words will always remain here for truth they will never die, and always tell all about the afterlife and about how God created the world, and man.

You can doubt my beliefs if you desire. You are welcome to hold on to your own. We are to respect and love each other regardless. Thank you for taking time to read, it is appreciated along with the conversation.
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MG, I don't understand why you would say this. I don't have the power to take anything from you, and I didn't tell you what to think. You asked questions, and I answered as to where my statements can be verified in the text. I asked questions of you, and you had no answers, except to say something to the effect of, "What I believe is what I believe, and nothing else matters..." That is a level of pragmatism that scares me. We should all accept that we are fallible, and therefore subject to error. When we refuse to be a part of the iron sharpening the iron, as it is written, we demonstrate a level of fleshly pride that speaks of a serious problem.

I'm willing to be corrected so long as the other(s) have something with enough solidity that I may place my feet upon it and explore the stability of what appears to be solid. Your attitude is sad to behold. I love others too much to not strive to explore the truth together so that we may all arrive at the truth of God's word that we may all move that much closer to being actual ministers of the word of God rather than a mixture of truth and error.

If all we do is spout our beliefs, and tell all others that they have nothing of value that would cause the rest to want to at least explore the possibility they may be wrong, why are we here at all?

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Meekness and fear, which indicates that we consider our fallibility, and give reverence to the fact that there is truth to be discovered for those who don't have it all. Those who think they have it all, that is the earmark of sinful pride.

MM
 
Okay. And you can believe how you desire when it comes to your own personal relationship with God.

At the end of the day it is the grace of God that allows us to be saved by the faith we choose to have by turning to God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

We are not saved by our knowledge.


We are to love God and one another.

Take care.
 
MatthewG said:
Okay. And you can believe how you desire when it comes to your own personal relationship with God.

At the end of the day it is the grace of God that allows us to be saved by the faith we choose to have by turning to God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

We are not saved by our knowledge.


We are to love God and one another.

Take care.
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Hmm. Well, you aren't willing to explore the truth that may be gleaned from the scriptures, so it is what it is. We weren't talking about salvation, so that's a non-issue in this.

For all others here, come and let us reason together, for in that we can find fellowship. I seek those with a willingness to fellowship in a concerted effort to pursue truth. After all, we are members of the body of Christ Jesus, and He expects us to function as such.

I will not cut any of you off at the knees.

Challenge me, and I will challenge you in a fellowship of love and the giving of due consideration for the need that we are all supposed to be unified in the Lord. If I give the appearance of indifference to you and what you have to say, then please call me out on that. I would deserve it.

Anything we can't seem to agree upon, we can collectively go the Lord, and seek His Spirit to instruct us, as is stated in 1 John 2:27.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
MG, I don't understand why you would say this. I don't have the power to take anything from you, and I didn't tell you what to think. You asked questions, and I answered as to where my statements can be verified in the text. I asked questions of you, and you had no answers, except to say something to the effect of, "What I believe is what I believe, and nothing else matters..." That is a level of pragmatism that scares me. We should all accept that we are fallible, and therefore subject to error. When we refuse to be a part of the iron sharpening the iron, as it is written, we demonstrate a level of fleshly pride that speaks of a serious problem.

I'm willing to be corrected so long as the other(s) have something with enough solidity that I may place my feet upon it and explore the stability of what appears to be solid. Your attitude is sad to behold. I love others too much to not strive to explore the truth together so that we may all arrive at the truth of God's word that we may all move that much closer to being actual ministers of the word of God rather than a mixture of truth and error.

If all we do is spout our beliefs, and tell all others that they have nothing of value that would cause the rest to want to at least explore the possibility they may be wrong, why are we here at all?

1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Meekness and fear, which indicates that we consider our fallibility, and give reverence to the fact that there is truth to be discovered for those who don't have it all. Those who think they have it all, that is the earmark of sinful pride.

MM
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Musicmaster said:
Hmm. Well, you aren't willing to explore the truth that may be gleaned from the scriptures, so it is what it is. We weren't talking about salvation, so that's a non-issue in this.

For all others here, come and let us reason together, for in that we can find fellowship. I seek those with a willingness to fellowship in a concerted effort to pursue truth. After all, we are members of the body of Christ Jesus, and He expects us to function as such.

I will not cut any of you off at the knees.

Challenge me, and I will challenge you in a fellowship of love and the giving of due consideration for the need that we are all supposed to be unified in the Lord. If I give the appearance of indifference to you and what you have to say, then please call me out on that. I would deserve it.

Anything we can't seem to agree upon, we can collectively go the Lord, and seek His Spirit to instruct us, as is stated in 1 John 2:27.

MM
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Well said, Musicmaster;

With substance. 1 Peter 3:15 is another one of my passage anthems. Open eyes and ears challenge me but the weight of His Word makes it all beneficial.

God bless you, brother, and your family.
 
MatthewG said:
You guys believe that the world is going to end?

If so what gives you this idea or who taught you about these things? Most people do not know anything until something is taught to them. Though some might claim the Bible told me so.

Just curious to you brothers in Christ Jesus your thoughts about if the world will end one day? Or do you believe in one world government? It would be interesting to hear your perspectives.

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Sure...

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(a harsh and quick form of global warming.)

But that will happen after at least a 1000 years of Christ reign on earth.
 
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