Are we saved by Grace alone thru faith alone?

explain to me how Ephesians 2:8-9 and the the true doctrine of justification by faith by grace and the Blood . get so far out of true context it would seem some hold to a work based salvation of good deeds gets you to heaven
And James 2:14-26 is their "Flagship proof text". which makes WORKS the imortant thing, and relegates FAITH to a distant second place in their interpretation.
 
And James 2:14-26 is their "Flagship proof text". which makes WORKS the imortant thing, and relegates FAITH to a distant second place in their interpretation.
It is not a race or other contest. I don't think anyone has said that faith is in any way second or inferior to works. God's dealings with man is all a unified whole, even if we cannot grasp how each and every portion fits with all the others. In this case, I do not see, scripturally, how a given sinner can gain the faith required without some other believer telling him of God's provisions for us in the person of Jesus.

If one is going to espouse a firm position, I guess the important thing is to come to an understanding that does not require throwing any portion of scripture away. It is all God's word...
 
It is not a race or other contest. I don't think anyone has said that faith is in any way second or inferior to works.
Good - because "Works" accomplish NOTHING, while FAITH (God's GIFT Eph 2:8,9) is what gets 'er done.
God's dealings with man is all a unified whole, even if we cannot grasp how each and every portion fits with all the others. In this case, I do not see, scripturally, how a given sinner can gain the faith required without some other believer telling him of God's provisions for us in the person of Jesus.
God, in his mercy, DOES use "other believers" to spread the Word. I was led to the lord by a brand new Christian, who'd never cracked the Bible in his life, and ONLY remembered (imperfectly) what the fellow who led him to the lord had told him the night before. However, under conviction of SIN, it was enough for me to get over the mountain of doubt -
 
explain to me how Ephesians 2:8-9 and the the true doctrine of justification by faith by grace and the Blood . get so far out of true context it would seem some hold to a work based salvation of good deeds gets you to heaven

Because those that believe works are needed to be saved have rejected the Word of God. No other reason is acceptable.
 
explain to me how Ephesians 2:8-9 and the the true doctrine of justification by faith by grace and the Blood . get so far out of true context it would seem some hold to a work based salvation of good deeds gets you to heaven
It happens when sanctification and justification are treated as the same thing. Sanctification as a process has a tendency to spill over into the area of justification. A free gift one moment, turns into a grueling marathon in order to receive the gift, rather than serve out of a heart of thankfulness.
 
explain to me how Ephesians 2:8-9 and the the true doctrine of justification by faith by grace and the Blood . get so far out of true context it would seem some hold to a work based salvation of good deeds gets you to heaven

Part of the reason, and here I am speaking outside of my own depth, but relating what can be found in other discussions:

What are we to understand about James 22:24:

James 2:24 (NASB)
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

This is not really the issue I have been talking about, because It implies that works is required in the newly saved person addition to Grace and Faith, where I was just trying to make the point that the Faith that we all seem to agree is necessary will be generated as a response in the new believer to the witness of another believer (faith comes by hearing...) , and thus it is not a further requirement, just another level of understanding relating to the Faith component. It is important to me because many seem to react to any person of faith working hard as an indication that they are trying to earn their way into heaven, while I think more of the fields being white for harvest, while the workers are too few.

But I digress…

The discussions I referred to often center upon the word translated as “alone”. That word my ESV interlinear is μόνον. Going farther out of my depth I will relate that Strongs identifies that as an adverb, and thus inappropriate to use to modify a noun (i.e. Faith). Here the discussion gets beyond my ability to understand.

Regardless, if one insists on Grace alone thru Faith alone, one should be able to give some explanation of James 2:24.

My own belief, which I am not putting forward as THE CORRECT understanding is that this section is not so much about the actual saving of a man, but the perfection his walk with God, and how his nature can be made evident to those around (a tree is known by its fruit)
 
Regardless, if one insists on Grace alone thru Faith alone, one should be able to give some explanation of James 2:24.
i dont have time comment james talks about works he is saying faith works. when we do something it is by faith resulting in a work once again i say this works follows salvation not precedes by grace through faith .later i will get into justification which has nothing to do with works but all grace . i am not a writer i preach so i dont even write out notes .if i did it would be a big mess far as that goes i dont have proper grammar, i respect those who has the gift of writing i dont
Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law.. each one of these put there fait to work Rahab heard faith comes by hearing she acted upon her faith
 
Part of the reason, and here I am speaking outside of my own depth, but relating what can be found in other discussions:

What are we to understand about James 22:24:

James 2:24 (NASB)
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
I would think this needs to be compared with Paul's statement...

Romans 3:28 (KJV) Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Paul spends three whole chapters in Romans describing how a person is just before God. After pronouncing ALL have sinned he comes out with the good news that it is faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ that justifies a person apart from (our) works of the law.
James on the other hand spends about 10 verses showing that saving faith is accompanied by works for men to see but before God it is the initial faith that justifies.
Even though Abraham was justified by faith in Gen 15.6, James takes up the act of Abraham sacrificing his on the altar Gen 22, many years of growing in faith had transpired in the meantime. (Notice James did not bring up the failures of Abraham along the way).
So God, who alone sees the heart, declares us righteous when faith is present, followed by growing in good works. (Paul)
Those good works are made manifest for all to see (James).
 
What if (shock horror) you get saved by grace and faith...together?

Or is that not possible. Do they have to be...alone.
"Grace" is why we weren't OBLITERATED the instant that We Sinned and fell short of God's Glory - HIS GRACE allowed us to survive - hopefully to Become Born Again by FAITH, and have our SIN Cleansed. GRACE granted the opportunity, and FAITH (gifted by God) got the job done.
 
Part of the reason, and here I am speaking outside of my own depth, but relating what can be found in other discussions:

What are we to understand about James 22:24:

James 2:24 (NASB)
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone

This is not really the issue I have been talking about, because It implies that works is required in the newly saved person addition to Grace and Faith, where I was just trying to make the point that the Faith that we all seem to agree is necessary will be generated as a response in the new believer to the witness of another believer (faith comes by hearing...) , and thus it is not a further requirement, just another level of understanding relating to the Faith component. It is important to me because many seem to react to any person of faith working hard as an indication that they are trying to earn their way into heaven, while I think more of the fields being white for harvest, while the workers are too few.

But I digress…

The discussions I referred to often center upon the word translated as “alone”. That word my ESV interlinear is μόνον. Going farther out of my depth I will relate that Strongs identifies that as an adverb, and thus inappropriate to use to modify a noun (i.e. Faith). Here the discussion gets beyond my ability to understand.

Regardless, if one insists on Grace alone thru Faith alone, one should be able to give some explanation of James 2:24.

My own belief, which I am not putting forward as THE CORRECT understanding is that this section is not so much about the actual saving of a man, but the perfection his walk with God, and how his nature can be made evident to those around (a tree is known by its fruit)

My dear brother..... when we read James 2:24 it is clear that James never says that faith is not essential for salvation. He never claims works are required to obtain or keep salvation. He is, however, crystal clear that truly saving faith cannot be separated from the evidence of good works.

Now allow me to say that the Bible tells us in several Scriptutures that ...........
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph. 2:8-9).

"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Rom. 4:5).

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the

Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."
(Titus 3:5-7)

So then when we read James 2:24, Is God contradicting Himself? As you just said......There must be some explanation why these verses appear to present opposing things because God would not contradict Himself.

When we allow the Bible interpret itself because the Bible will allways be in harmony with itself. God is the author of the Bible and perfect in all his ways. Therefore God cannot make an error or contradict Himself, so if we find a clear statement that seems to contradict some other statement in Scripture we know we have an interpretation problem. The problem is not with the Bible, but with our understanding of what we are reading. *****KEY****** If we assume there is a contradiction then we make God out to be a liar and destroy the creditability of the Bible.

So then, To interpret the passage is simple. James is saying that if a person says they have true saving faith, their faith will produce works in their life. You will be able to see their faith in action. The justification spoken of here is not salvation, but justifying one calling himself a Christian and claiming to have saving faith when he is not living for the Lord. In other words a man who says he is saved and does not show any outward evidence of salvation then his salvation is in doubt because it produces no works or result in the man's life. The person who has saving faith and works is publicly justified in claiming to be have faith and be saved. His works show his faith. The one who has no works, whether he is saved or not, is not justified in outwardly saying he has saving faith, because his lack of works does not justify his claim.

As shown in the verses quoted above, overwhelmingly the Bible tells us that we are saved by faith alone apart from works.

Romans 3:20.....
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight for by the law is the knowledge of sin."

Galatians 2:16.....
"Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

John 3:15-16, 36 "That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

James finishes the paragraph by saying "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26). Something that is dead is not alive and clearly God is saying that a person who, as a pattern of life, has no works does not appear to have saving faith. That is the point of this passage. This is certainly not teaching that a person must add works to faith to be saved. It is teaching the product of faith is works. James therefore is giving us the way of authenticating true saving faith. He is not teaching that salvation is faith plus works. He is giving us the justification for calling ourselves Christians.
https://bible-truth.org/James2-24.html
 
James finishes the paragraph by saying "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also" (James 2:26). Something that is dead is not alive and clearly God is saying that a person who, as a pattern of life, has no works does not appear to have saving faith. That is the point of this passage. This is certainly not teaching that a person must add works to faith to be saved. It is teaching the product of faith is works. James therefore is giving us the way of authenticating true saving faith. He is not teaching that salvation is faith plus works. He is giving us the justification for calling ourselves Christians.
https://bible-truth.org/James2-24.html
QFT~Quoted For Truth
 
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