Both times would be in a state of disobedience!
Are we saved by Grace alone thru faith alone?
- Thread starter YeshuaFan
- Start date
indeed, as its for all humanity, while the water baptism and communion address to the saved!
That sounds like the Oneness cult!
Jesus gave great importance though to each of them!
sacraments are seen as imparting effecual grace towards thnose partaking, but is not the Grace of Calvary fully sufficient?
The same kind of disobedience when we fail to love the Lord with ALL our heart, ALL our soul, ALL our mind and ALL our strength?
Mark 12:30 (KJV) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
No, more like direct disobeying Lord!
According to some religious paradigms - including yours apparently.
If we fail to keep the first and greatest command, I guess it's downhill from there unless we are covered by the One who imputes a Greater Obedience to our account
Mark 12:30 (KJV) And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
Romans 5:19 (KJV) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous..
They cannot be mixed, as its all grace or its not!
scriptures stated both were imprtant, as we take communion until jesus second Coming, and all saved commanded to be baptized!
NONE save Jesus though can and ever kept that as God intended!
That was my point and the point of Rom 5:19.
"Grace" (unmerited favor) is why you weren't obliterated the first time you SINNED and fell short of God's Glory. "Grace" is why you've survived and given a chance to be cleansed by Jesus' SIN OFFERING on Calvary. FAITH Heb 11:1) is God's gift enabling you to Repent of your sin, become born again, and be indwelled by the holy Spirit (Eph 2:8,9).
amen very well said
explain to me how Ephesians 2:8-9 and the the true doctrine of justification by faith by grace and the Blood . get so far out of true context it would seem some hold to a work based salvation of good deeds gets you to heaven
I am often surprised that many who rightly cry that works can not save anyone and cite verses to support that position do not recognize that salvation is not the only aim of the Gospel. They even modify those supporting verses by inserting the word 'alone'. Surely that is adding commentary to God's word. The commentary may be true (in a very narrow sense), but commentary is not scripture, and it glosses over or denigrates another aim of the Gospel (and of the old Law), denigrating anyone that talks in any positive way of works.
Works sharpen our reliance on the Lord, and provide its own commentaries within our souls of the need to rely on His word and His leading. It causes us to look outside of ourselves and our own 'troubles' and focus on those around us.
When my sons were young I gave them jobs within our house. Many times it would have been easier for my and/or my wife to do these things ourselves, but by providing tasks ranging from easily accomplished to some that required more effort, they became stronger young men. In no way did I imply that they were earning my love or place in our family. The doing of tasks molded them into young men (now adults) that could work for a good outside of their own interests.
I would suggest that those who cannot listen to a person of faith talk of things he does, or has seen done in the name of the Lord, without responding that noone is saved by works, go to scripture and read the letter of James, particularly Ch 2 vs 14-26.
Works sharpen our reliance on the Lord, and provide its own commentaries within our souls of the need to rely on His word and His leading. It causes us to look outside of ourselves and our own 'troubles' and focus on those around us.
When my sons were young I gave them jobs within our house. Many times it would have been easier for my and/or my wife to do these things ourselves, but by providing tasks ranging from easily accomplished to some that required more effort, they became stronger young men. In no way did I imply that they were earning my love or place in our family. The doing of tasks molded them into young men (now adults) that could work for a good outside of their own interests.
I would suggest that those who cannot listen to a person of faith talk of things he does, or has seen done in the name of the Lord, without responding that noone is saved by works, go to scripture and read the letter of James, particularly Ch 2 vs 14-26.
Titus 3:5 (KJV) Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Those born again (regenerated) will be renewed unto salvation.
Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Some like putting the emphasis on verse twelve, others on verse thirteen. They both go hand in hand because of verse thirteen.
(IMHO)
Those born again (regenerated) will be renewed unto salvation.
Philippians 1:6 (KJV) Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
Philippians 2:12-13 (KJV) Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Some like putting the emphasis on verse twelve, others on verse thirteen. They both go hand in hand because of verse thirteen.
(IMHO)
A given believer's works never save him, but whenever a sinner receives salvation, someone’s work of faith is close at hand.
Ephesians 2:8 tells us that it is the Grace of God that saves us, and the mechanism of that salvation is the faith provided by Him. Here Grace is obviously part of His nature, but in His wisdom we must have faith in that salvation. The truly wondrous thing is that God provides that faith as a gift if we only receive it.
So Grace + Faith works together to save us. They are both necessary and working together they are sufficient.
But, although Grace is an attribute of God and is rooted in His nature, saving faith resides within ourselves but is foreign to our natural self. Faith does not spring forth within us from our own nature, but as a gift from God. If we examine faith closer, there is never a case where that saving faith develops within us without us first learning the Gospel from someone. That is how God has chosen to have His message spread. By the works of His people.
Romans 10:14-15 (NASB)
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
Think of all the Christians you know. Think of your own salvation. Has anyone ever accepted Christ without someone telling them, broadcasting a message, or handing them a tract, or providing them with a Bible or allowed the Gospel to shine through them? There has always been someone who was obedient and did a good work for their Lord.
In none of these cases have the individual(s) who were faithful and did the work the Lord asked been saved through those good works, but their good works were part of God’s plan to reach the one that did receive.
Ephesians 2:8 tells us that it is the Grace of God that saves us, and the mechanism of that salvation is the faith provided by Him. Here Grace is obviously part of His nature, but in His wisdom we must have faith in that salvation. The truly wondrous thing is that God provides that faith as a gift if we only receive it.
So Grace + Faith works together to save us. They are both necessary and working together they are sufficient.
But, although Grace is an attribute of God and is rooted in His nature, saving faith resides within ourselves but is foreign to our natural self. Faith does not spring forth within us from our own nature, but as a gift from God. If we examine faith closer, there is never a case where that saving faith develops within us without us first learning the Gospel from someone. That is how God has chosen to have His message spread. By the works of His people.
Romans 10:14-15 (NASB)
14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher? 15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!”
Think of all the Christians you know. Think of your own salvation. Has anyone ever accepted Christ without someone telling them, broadcasting a message, or handing them a tract, or providing them with a Bible or allowed the Gospel to shine through them? There has always been someone who was obedient and did a good work for their Lord.
In none of these cases have the individual(s) who were faithful and did the work the Lord asked been saved through those good works, but their good works were part of God’s plan to reach the one that did receive.