10 virgin parable

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calvin said:
Then the oil they needed comes down to a matter of works...I think not. Jesus completes this parable with the advice:::
Matt 25:13. Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
This doesn't speak of some being saved some not being saved in the sense 'wheat' and 'tars'.
How does 'Watch'ing transform a person into a child of light?
There are lots of things that can be inferred from this and many other parables but that doesn't mean they are all the true meanings. For example, and I stress this is only an example,
"If you are looking for wives, pick only the ones that provide you with proof that they are good house keepers. The ones that buy ahead are the ones you want. The bad house keepers, typified by the five foolish virgins do not plan ahead and are going to be rushing around buying groceries at a time when they are needed in the home." While this observation might have some merit, it is not what the Parable is meant to be teaching.
Clearly v13 tells us what the parable is about. "Be prepared at all times" and that is hardly advice to give to children of darkness along with children of light. The children of darkness need first to come into the light....then they need to keep watch.
We can all play heaps of 'what ifs'...what if each of the foolish ones had just walked with one with plenty of oil? yeah that should work, walking by the light of her lamp. But if she is rejected because her lamp has gone out, how would that work because once they reach the house they don't need their lamps anyway....so who's to know?
NO, we just need to stick with the Master's teaching......"Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour", and this seems to be the criteria between being wise and being foolish.
As somebody, (Abdicate I think ) pointed out, Jesus was talking to His disciples...go back to ........
Matt 24:3. As he sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"
A disciple is a 'learner', a 'pupil' reasonably, a follower. If a disciple can be a child of darkness and watching changes all that then maybe you and bro Paul could be right. But I'll just put my money on Jesus and V13.
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The "watching" part does not make one a child of God, but being a child of God causes one to be a child of the light. Which is why the scripture I posted says....

1 Th 5:4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Th 5:5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

The five "foolish" virgins never were a child of the light or they would have never missed the Lord. That day would have never over taken them as a thief in the night.
 
CCW95A said:
The "watching" part does not make one a child of God, but being a child of God causes one to be a child of the light. Which is why the scripture I posted says....

1 Th 5:4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1 Th 5:5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

The five "foolish" virgins never were a child of the light or they would have never missed the Lord. That day would have never over taken them as a thief in the night.
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I believe they were Christians. I also believe this isn't about heaven vs. hell, but being part of the Bride or not - aka the Rapture. Literally those foolish are left behind. Radical concept, but it brings us back to - you can't do what you want in this world and still be called the Bride. Those who call on Jesus' name are saved and still go to heaven, they just won't be part of the Bride because they were not found worthy to escape because they didn't Watch as Jesus warned. No warning is a warning if there's not a chance for loss.
 
Abdicate said:
I believe they were Christians. I also believe this isn't about heaven vs. hell, but being part of the Bride or not - aka the Rapture. Literally those foolish are left behind. Radical concept, but it brings us back to - you can't do what you want in this world and still be called the Bride. Those who call on Jesus' name are saved and still go to heaven, they just won't be part of the Bride because they were not found worthy to escape because they didn't Watch as Jesus warned. No warning is a warning if there's not a chance for loss.
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I myself do not believe any Christian is going to miss the rapture. How can someone born again, and given the Holy Spirit as their "guarantee" which is their "engagement ring" from the Lord, to miss their own wedding? I would call that an impossibility. The only people who will miss the rapture are those who have a "form" of Godliness, but deny it's power. They look real but have found out to be "false".
 
CCW95A said:
I myself do not believe any Christian is going to miss the rapture. How can someone born again, and given the Holy Spirit as their "guarantee" which is their "engagement ring" from the Lord, to miss their own wedding? I would call that an impossibility. The only people who will miss the rapture are those who have a "form" of Godliness, but deny it's power. They look real but have found out to be "false".
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You're making a lot of assumptions and forgetting the rest of the word of God. The Holy Spirit is indeed the earnest (downpayment) of our salvation from hell, Eph 1:13-14, but there is no guarantee of a rapture. Hence the warnings to his followers. Jesus Himself said to pray to be found worthy to escape, Luke 21:36. If He said the warning then the possibility of being found unworthy is a possibility. Only the faithful virgins were ready and went with the Bridegroom when He arrived, and example of the rapture itself. Jesus reiterates the warning to those who don't even know they're miserable, poor, blind, and naked, who are part of the Church, Rev 3:14-22. Again I remind you that many will be judged and lose everything having their garments spotted and smelling of smoke when they enter heaven, 1 Cor 3:15. The word of God is filled from Genesis (aka to Adam) all the way to very last chapter of Revelation with a warning: don't eat and "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth..."

2 Peter 3:14 (KJV)
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.​

Salvation is a guarantee for those that call on the Name of the Lord and have faith. But because of the easy-believism infecting the church, once they pray a formulated prayer, they put faith in the prayer and may even think they're a Christian, maybe even go so far as to actually be a Christian but a 40-year old two-year old. But proof is in the pudding, even Jesus said so:

Mark 16:16-18 (KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.​

The story of the virgins is a warning, heed it.
 
Abdicate said:
You're making a lot of assumptions and forgetting the rest of the word of God. The Holy Spirit is indeed the earnest (downpayment) of our salvation from hell, , but there is no guarantee of a rapture. Hence the warnings to his followers. Jesus Himself said to pray to be found worthy to escape, . If He said the warning then the possibility of being found unworthy is a possibility. Only the faithful virgins were ready and went with the Bridegroom when He arrived, and example of the rapture itself. Jesus reiterates the warning to those who don't even know they're miserable, poor, blind, and naked, who are part of the Church, . Again I remind you that many will be judged and lose everything having their garments spotted and smelling of smoke when they enter heaven, . The word of God is filled from Genesis (aka to Adam) all the way to very last chapter of Revelation with a warning: don't eat and "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth..."

(KJV)
Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.​

Salvation is a guarantee for those that call on the Name of the Lord and have faith. But because of the easy-believism infecting the church, once they pray a formulated prayer, they put faith in the prayer and may even think they're a Christian, maybe even go so far as to actually be a Christian but a 40-year old two-year old. But proof is in the pudding, even Jesus said so:

(KJV)
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.​

The story of the virgins is a warning, heed it.
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Sorry, I would have to disagree with your understanding of these things. Becoming born again by the Word of God secures our salvation, and nothing else is required except our faith.
 
CCW95A said:
Sorry, I would have to disagree with your understanding of these things. Becoming born again by the Word of God secures our salvation, and nothing else is required except our faith.
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I agree about salvation, but the rapture is not a guarantee... show me your proof... I've already used scripture to support my finding.
 
Abdicate said:
I agree about salvation, but the rapture is not a guarantee... show me your proof... I've already used scripture to support my finding.
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1 Cor 15;51 We shall ALL be changed in a moment,......
Is this not talking about the rapture of the church?
If a Christian misses the raptue, is there going to another way to the father that we do not know about?
 
Abdicate said:
I agree about salvation, but the rapture is not a guarantee... show me your proof... I've already used scripture to support my finding.
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If salvation is a "guarantee", then the rapture has to also be a guarantee. You can not have one without the other. There are no other "buses" leaving planet earth to the Father. There is only one resurrection of the just, so you are either in it, or have never been a part of it. How can a Christian not be a part of the Kingdom of God, or the rapture when he has "already" been "translated" there and sitting on the right hand of God in Christ? All born again Christians will be a part of the rapture at Jesus return for his Church!!!
 
CCW95A said:
1 Cor 15;51 We shall ALL be changed in a moment,......
Is this not talking about the rapture of the church?
If a Christian misses the raptue, is there going to another way to the father that we do not know about?
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One verse makes an argument not. Did you not read the first 50 verses? If you're earthly and natural, you're not going. You're taking that verse out of context. What do you do with all the others I've posted? Show me where the rapture is a guarantee? I showed you where Jesus said otherwise. Do you not believe our Creator? I pray I'm found worthy.
 
Abdicate said:
One verse makes an argument not. Did you not read the first 50 verses? If you're earthly and natural, you're not going. You're taking that verse out of context. What do you do with all the others I've posted? Show me where the rapture is a guarantee? I showed you where Jesus said otherwise. Do you not believe our Creator? I pray I'm found worthy.
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When a person becomes a "new creation" in Christ they have just became "worthy" of the Kingdom of which they have been translated into, because Jesus is now their righteousness. There is no other "work" that they have to do other than just "believe". Our physical bodies can not "enter", or become apart of God eternal Kingdom, because it is to "corrupt". It can not be fixed, only changed at the return of Jesus Christ for his Church.
When Jesus speaks to the seven Churches in the Book of Revelations, he knew there were many in these Churches who were not a part of his Kingdom, yet they where there masquerading as true believers. They were not worthy of his Kingdom because they were not born again of His Spirit. These people are exactly like the five "foolish" virgins who were never apart of God's Kingdom, yet they also masqueraded as true believers, but were found out to be false.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
CCW95A said:
When a person becomes a "new creation" in Christ they have just became "worthy" of the Kingdom of which they have been translated into, because Jesus is now their righteousness. There is no other "work" that they have to do other than just "believe". Our physical bodies can not "enter", or become apart of God eternal Kingdom, because it is to "corrupt". It can not be fixed, only changed at the return of Jesus Christ for his Church.
When Jesus speaks to the seven Churches in the Book of Revelations, he knew there were many in these Churches who were not a part of his Kingdom, yet they where there masquerading as true believers. They were not worthy of his Kingdom because they were not born again of His Spirit. These people are exactly like the five "foolish" virgins who were never apart of God's Kingdom, yet they also masqueraded as true believers, but were found out to be false.

1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
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So because of this one verse you keep referring to without including the context of the first 50 verses, plus Jesus' own word or warning... well I can't help you, you win, I'm done.
 
I think the oil is important to the parable. It's the whole reason they didn't make it.

Nonetheless, I respect all the different opinions in this thread. I'm sure parables can have layers of meaning and understanding.

Iron sharpens iron, so thank you everyone that is participating in the discussion. I think the more we all talk about scripture the more time we spend thinking about the word of God, and that can't be a bad thing.
 
The foolish virgins were not born again.
The wise ones were. The difference? Oil of the holy spirit.

If you do not have the holy spirit, nows a good time to ask and receive.
 
Resurrection is a guarantee. Jesus return, every eye will see. If they didnt see him first their lamps burning in the dark, the foolish virgins will see him anyway on the last day but they will be utterly ashamed they were not ready and fell asleep. They will be at the resurrection of the damned.
There is a 1000 years difference between the two, Im not quite sure how it all fits but certainly every eye will see Jesus. hes coming back for everyone.

Those that have the holy spirit, are prepared to meet him, those that dont will be overtaken. Jesus said it will come as a snare for all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Everyone will die, right? Yes, thats the guarantee. God is going to judge the whole earth. The only difference is, christians are the ones that are going to be born again. Simple.

In terms of whether those foolish virgins are christians or unbelievers...well, clearly God thinks that anyone who does not have the spirit dwelling in them is NOT a christian, so I would say they are would be unbelievers, even those that call themselves christians but did not bother to recieve the holy spirit. There is no distinction in Gods eyes, if you do not have the holy spirit, doesnt matter if you went to church for 49 years. You are not a christian.
 
Lanolin said:
Resurrection is a guarantee. Jesus return, every eye will see. If they didnt see him first their lamps burning in the dark, the foolish virgins will see him anyway on the last day but they will be utterly ashamed they were not ready and fell asleep. They will be at the resurrection of the damned.
There is a 1000 years difference between the two, Im not quite sure how it all fits but certainly every eye will see Jesus. hes coming back for everyone.

Those that have the holy spirit, are prepared to meet him, those that dont will be overtaken. Jesus said it will come as a snare for all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth. Everyone will die, right? Yes, thats the guarantee. God is going to judge the whole earth. The only difference is, christians are the ones that are going to be born again. Simple.

In terms of whether those foolish virgins are christians or unbelievers...well, clearly God thinks that anyone who does not have the spirit dwelling in them is NOT a christian, so I would say they are would be unbelievers, even those that call themselves christians but did not bother to recieve the holy spirit. There is no distinction in Gods eyes, if you do not have the holy spirit, doesnt matter if you went to church for 49 years. You are not a christian.
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Note: They all had the oil. Half didn't maintain it.
 
Really? it says the foolish ones had lamps but NO OIL.
Nothing about maintanence, once you have the Holy Spirit, you cant 'maintain' you are sealed and have him forever. I suppose you can grieve him away bit thats only talking about others acting in ways that grieve the holy spirit in you. I know my spirit is grieved when others dont believe.

IDK, I guess you believe something slightly different. Agree to disagree.
 
Lanolin said:
Really? it says the foolish ones had lamps but NO OIL.
Nothing about maintanence, once you have the Holy Spirit, you cant 'maintain' you are sealed and have him forever. I suppose you can grieve him away bit thats only talking about others acting in ways that grieve the holy spirit in you. I know my spirit is grieved when others dont believe.

IDK, I guess you believe something slightly different. Agree to disagree.
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I believe every word of the word of God... YOU need to reread again...

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’

To go out, it has to be lit... You all claim the authority of the word of God but you piecemeal it to fit your dogma rather than the very nuances given within the scriptures. The audience is HIS disciples! Have you no understanding? Why bother with a parable to Christians if there's no reason for loss!?

Matthew 25:13 (KJV)
Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
​
This is clearly a warning for His return. People like you give pseudo-christians, and perpetual babies hope where there is none and void all the warnings just because some formulated words are uttered they're declare followers of Christ without actually having to follow Him!
 
Read the WHOLE PASSAGE

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


notice verse 3

the foolish virgins lied and said their lamps had gone out. They hadn't even put oil in there in the first place!!!!!
 
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