An honest question to cessationists

Euphemia said:
Only ten years? Tell her to not give up.
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Certainly if it was available to all believers under the submission of the Holy spirit, my wife would have prayed in tongues by now. That leads me to believe that it is not for all Christians.

My pastor agrees with me, so I will stick with him as he is far more qualified than you or I on the subject to be sure.
 
naomanos said:
Certainly if it was available to all believers under the submission of the Holy spirit, my wife would have prayed in tongues by now. That leads me to believe that it is not for all Christians.

My pastor agrees with me, so I will stick with him as he is far more qualified than you or I on the subject to be sure.
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Not necessarily. The gift of tongues that is used in the Church isn't for everyone, but the gift of tongues in prayer and worship is. Your pastor is not more qualified than people who actually know the word about this.
 
Euphemia said:
Why do you think I worry?

There are no scriptural supports for denial of the work of the Holy Spirit in His people. To insist that there are is a serious issue, but your not receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not. One can live a decently good Christian life without it, but there is so much more for us that God wants to give us. He wants to endow us with His power for living, and to move in the authority of Jesus, and to do the works of Christ, just as His disciples employed and enjoyed. What a joy it is to be able to pray for and lay hands on others who need a touch from the Lord and see them healed, and receiving that which they require! What a joy also it is to go forth knowing that there will be success in the end because of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit who will go before us and make those crooked ways straight, opening doors that are locked shut to us, to do what He has called us to do. Move mountains? Yessirree!
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When did I say I had not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit????

We all receive the baptism of God's Spirit at the moment we are saved!!! God does not hold back anything from His children so that when we accept Christ we get ALL that God has in store for us.

Every single thing you just posted I agree with 100% but I am not greater than anyone else in my Christian walk and I would not infer that to anyone.
 
naomanos said:
I will just agree to disagree.

My wife has been asking for nearly 10 years and still hasn't.
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Because you do not and wife does not speak in tongues is no reason to think you are any less of a born again believer than anyone else!!!!

We are all children of God in the Lord Jesus Christ and God is not a respecter of persons.
 
Major said:
When did I say I had not received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit????

We all receive the baptism of God's Spirit at the moment we are saved!!!

Every single thing you just posted I agree with 100% but I am not greater than anyone else in my Christian walk and I would not infer that to anyone.
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No, we do not all receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we are saved. Some, if not most do not receive it until much later, like myself.
 
Major said:
Because you do not and wife does not speak in tongues is no reason to think you are any less of a born again believer than anyone else!!!!

We are all children of God in the Lord Jesus Christ and God is not a respecter of persons.
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Nobody is implying that those who are not baptized in the Holy Spirit or do not have their prayer language are less than anyone who does employ the gifts of the Spirit. No one.
 
Euphemia said:
As long as you don't allow your pastor and yourself to stand in your wife's way with regard to her desire for more of Jesus.
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We haven't and one doesn't need to pray in tongues in order to receive more of Jesus. One only needs to sit at His feet in order to do that, and praying in tongues is not required for that.
 
Major said:
Because you do not and wife does not speak in tongues is no reason to think you are any less of a born again believer than anyone else!!!!

We are all children of God in the Lord Jesus Christ and God is not a respecter of persons.
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I fully agree with you and we do not think otherwise.
 
Euphemia said:
No, we do not all receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit when we are saved. Some, if not most do not receive it until much later, like myself.
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NOPE. That is not Biblical my sister.

The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.

1st Corth. 12:13............
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Rom. 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ:........
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Eph. 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe:.......
“Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation.

So how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.
(http://www.gotquestions.org/receive-Holy-Spirit.html#ixzz3aoBsvgoI)
 
Euphemia said:
Nobody is implying that those who are not baptized in the Holy Spirit or do not have their prayer language are less than anyone who does employ the gifts of the Spirit. No one.
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But your exact words were...........
"There are no scriptural supports for denial of the work of the Holy Spirit in His people. To insist that there are is a serious issue, but your not receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not. One can live a decently good Christian life without it".

That seems a little suspect don't you think?
What you say if I had said that about YOU???

Would we still be having this lovely conversation????
 
naomanos said:
We haven't and one doesn't need to pray in tongues in order to receive more of Jesus. One only needs to sit at His feet in order to do that, and praying in tongues is not required for that.
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The gift of tongues in prayer is a marvelous gift that adds power to our prayer, and much more. It is nothing to sneeze at.
 
Major said:
NOPE. That is not Biblical my sister.

The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior.

1st Corth. 12:13............
“For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.”

Rom. 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ:........
“You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.”

Eph. 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe:.......
“Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation.

So how do we receive the Holy Spirit? We receive the Holy Spirit by simply receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior (John 3:5-16). When do we receive the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirit becomes our permanent possession the moment we believe.
(http://www.gotquestions.org/receive-Holy-Spirit.html#ixzz3aoBsvgoI)
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Actually you are not biblical. You appear to misinterpret what the indwelling Holy Spirit is that occurs when one is saved, and the fullness and filling to overflowing of the Holy Spirit at His baptism--sometimes which occurs at the moment of salvation, and for others it occurs at water baptism, and for most others, it is at another time altogether, sometimes days, weeks, months or years later.

Every single one of the 120 disciples in the upper room were saved. They experienced the baptism of the Holy Spirit later in the upper room. Even for Cornelius and his household members, including servants---they received the baptism of the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water but after they accepted the gospel message by faith. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate from salvation.

What is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?
http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/cbnteachingsheets/gifts_of_the_spirit.aspx
 
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Major said:
But your exact words were...........
"There are no scriptural supports for denial of the work of the Holy Spirit in His people. To insist that there are is a serious issue, but your not receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit is not. One can live a decently good Christian life without it".

That seems a little suspect don't you think?
What you say if I had said that about YOU???

Would we still be having this lovely conversation????
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What's so suspect? One can live a good Christian life without the extra gifting and empowerment that comes from the Holy Spirit's baptism. We are all called to receive it but God is not going to strong arm us to do so.
 
naomanos said:
I still respectfully disagree.
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You may disagree all you like. The fact is that I speak the truth of God's word to you...in love.
Excerpted from:
http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/holy_spirit

"If Jesus couldn’t, or wouldn’t, operate independently of the Holy Spirit, neither should we. No one can have an effective life or ministry without the power of God’s Holy Spirit working in him or her. This fact can’t be argued by anyone who truly believes the Bible is God’s Word. The Scriptures are replete with proof that it is “not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts” (Zech. 4:6).

So, why is there so much debate over this issue? The sad truth is that denial of the ministry and power of the Holy Spirit is a convenient theology. Believing that miracles and gifts of the Holy Spirit don’t operate today excuses powerless living. If it’s true that the Holy Spirit is still willing to move as in biblical times (and it is true), then there is no excuse for living lives so far removed from the victory portrayed in God’s Word.

The number one reason people resist the ministry of the Holy Spirit is because it exposes the lack of power in their lives. And once exposed, it demands a change. In an attempt to avoid responsibility for change, they change the Scriptures instead of themselves. Of course, it’s not that blatant, but there is a predisposition against the ministry of the Holy Spirit, so the Scripture is twisted to support their views."
 
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naomanos said:
As I said, I will go with my pastor, not Andrew Wommack. My pastor is more than qualified to speak on the subject, whether you believe him to be or not. He too speaks the truth of God's word in love.
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OK, but there are many pastors who preach against the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I pray that he does not discourage you or your wife from seeking it.
 
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