Exactly and mature is perfected love. We can strive for perfect love as God is perfect but we can not reach the same level. Man can strive to love even as God loves but we will not ever be able to love in the same depth that He loves is all I was saying
An honest question to cessationists
- Thread starter Mykuhl
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Exactly and mature is perfected love. We can strive for perfect love as God is perfect but we can not reach the same level. Man can strive to love even as God loves but we will not ever be able to love in the same depth that He loves is all I was saying
Here is a cool scripture....
1John 2:5.. but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him:
The word, "perfected" mean " to be completed, mature, and perfect by reaching the intended goal"
I want to add something to this that I just saw and linked together.
1 John 4:18, "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not bee made perfect in love."
I just realized how to obtain that perfect love that casts out fear!
The was great!!! Thanks brother.
You're welcome. But don't thank me, The Lord showed that one to me.
That is very awesome Mykuhl but lets add one more to it so as to complete the entire picture.
Galatians 5:6 KJV
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Love is not only a commandment to us but it ties everything in Christ together and get this............It Pleases Thee Father and you know what it is like when we please the Father.
Just to add something to this reply.........Forgiveness and Love are REQUIRED in order for your faith to work or bring the desired results as well as determining the strength of your prayers. Mark 11:25 tells us when we stand praying........forgive if we have any aught against any.......Can't operate in forgiveness if you are not operating in Love....
People like to over look these things because it is tooooooooo hard and if you only knew what they did to me.........Hmmm God does and God still says forgive right now when you pray.
Thanks Mykuhl and Curtis
God Bless
Jim
I agree with this Major.
People today are so caught up on John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Reality is that nobody today has fed 6000 people with two small fish. Nobody has a shadow like Peter.
I was thinking about this verse from using it in another thread. We think that the '''works'' was turning two small fish into 5 000 fish. When in fact the work was feeding 5 000 hungry tummies
.We think a great work is causing a mountain to move. When in fact the great work is getting people to acknowledge the mountain that is there and praise the Creator for it and not steer attention to ourselves.
We can forgive many for being cessationists. Christianity 101 is hating any 'holier than though' stigmas.
When I was first saved I spoke in tongues all night long. So I will never mock it. But we have to face a reality. Many interpreters do not understand anything anyone says. The interpretations always sound the same / doubtfully accurate. I have heard twenty lines interpreted into four lines. Most times its the annoying newcomers trying to be holier then others that make the interpretation. It is simply always an uncomfortable / weird / odd event.
Perhaps it is sad, but then it could just as easily not be God's will? When we judge ourselves to be in-Christ do we gauge 1. what gifts we operating in or 2. how much we are hating sin and clinging to what is good? I like how Rom 12:9 says that is genuine love.
Why speak in tongues when we have English? Why does God need to communicate to us in another language when we know He knows we know He knows English? I believe that tongues these days is sadly / mostly to be a personal affair. Not because we are denying the power of God or ashamed to exercise this in public, just church is not what it used to be. I can't help but see ''singing in tongues'' as a mockery of tongues.
When I was first saved I spoke in tongues all night long. So I will never mock it. But we have to face a reality. Many interpreters do not understand anything anyone says. The interpretations always sound the same / doubtfully accurate. I have heard twenty lines interpreted into four lines. Most times its the annoying newcomers trying to be holier then others that make the interpretation. It is simply always an uncomfortable / weird / odd event.
Perhaps it is sad, but then it could just as easily not be God's will? When we judge ourselves to be in-Christ do we gauge 1. what gifts we operating in or 2. how much we are hating sin and clinging to what is good? I like how Rom 12:9 says that is genuine love.
Why speak in tongues when we have English? Why does God need to communicate to us in another language when we know He knows we know He knows English? I believe that tongues these days is sadly / mostly to be a personal affair. Not because we are denying the power of God or ashamed to exercise this in public, just church is not what it used to be. I can't help but see ''singing in tongues'' as a mockery of tongues.
Scripture speaks directly of tongues more than it does of any other gift save prophecy.
There are reasons for that and most that I've met who speak or interpret tongues only know a very little bit of what scripture says about it.
I have to wonder how many new believers who actually have the gift of interpretation remain silent when they hear someone else give an iterpretation that doesn't jive with what the Holy Spirit is showing them. How many learn to doubt what the Holy Spirit is showing them, because of people who just want to be seen as holy and a church body that applauds such behavior without testing it..?
I can say this with absolute certainty...
If someone has to teach you the words so that you can speak in tongues, then what you have is not a gift of the Spirit, but a tool of man.
If someone has to work with you for a prolonged period following your "baptism in the spirit" before you speak in tongues, then it is not of God. It is of man.
There are reasons for that and most that I've met who speak or interpret tongues only know a very little bit of what scripture says about it.
I have to wonder how many new believers who actually have the gift of interpretation remain silent when they hear someone else give an iterpretation that doesn't jive with what the Holy Spirit is showing them. How many learn to doubt what the Holy Spirit is showing them, because of people who just want to be seen as holy and a church body that applauds such behavior without testing it..?
I can say this with absolute certainty...
If someone has to teach you the words so that you can speak in tongues, then what you have is not a gift of the Spirit, but a tool of man.
If someone has to work with you for a prolonged period following your "baptism in the spirit" before you speak in tongues, then it is not of God. It is of man.
You are talking about one kind of tongues whee the Lord is speaking to the congregation. The tongues that the believer uses daily is for the Lord to edify His children. It is the Holy Spirit speaking to God through us, and often about us. Our minds are at rest and receptive to His presence and His blessing. That's not sad. It should make us glad.
Another thing about prophets.
See how many times God referred to what Israel did to the prophets that He sent to them. It was never good, and shows that God did not receive their behaviour that well either.
So are we to follow the same path as the Israelites when a prophet comes our way?
I'd be to scared to "burn the prophet" or "beat him up".
Anytime "truth" comes up against the "false" there will be trouble, which is why the Prophet was not a very popular profession in the Old Testament. They were usually killed because what they said. We have the same thing today, except it is against the law to kill your pastor / teacher, so instead they either just leave, and bad mouth those whom they disbelieve as teaching the truth. The battle that rages in which we are waging against is imaginations, and every high thing that is trying to exalt it self against the knowledge of God. These are "castles", and "fortresses" that have built up in the mind of man that would cause that man not to accept the truth. Instead of tearing them down, they are being fortified, and built up to make them stronger. We can not force anyone to believe the truth, but only "chip" away at the the tradition of man with the truth so they might escape from those who have them held captive by false teaching.
2Co 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
2Co 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
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That is correct - strongholds. And the more we isolate ourselves, or pull back - the stronger our walls of our strongholds become regarding allowing others in or even the truth.
Sad thing, for when the big attack comes, we stand alone, and thus stands defeated.
Notice the quotes I used on the things done to the prophets. Those things we do today using our words - is it not ironic.
If you burn someone in modern times it's not at the stake, it's with words, and same with beating up someone - done so with words, not sticks and stones.
Mind you, the old world still prevail in a lot of African countries, but let us not go there.
During early 2014 two separate prophecies were given to me and one to my wife and I together.
She once said, if we look where we are, those words seems so far fetched and some almost "impossible".
I told her that we must be careful not to do what Israel did to the prophets of God, and I stick with that today.
I agree with this Major.
People today are so caught up on John 14:12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.
Reality is that nobody today has fed 6000 people with two small fish. Nobody has a shadow like Peter.
I was thinking about this verse from using it in another thread. We think that the '''works'' was turning two small fish into 5 000 fish. When in fact the work was feeding 5 000 hungry tummies
We think a great work is causing a mountain to move. When in fact the great work is getting people to acknowledge the mountain that is there and praise the Creator for it and not steer attention to ourselves.
Absolutely correct my brother!!!
I am the Mayor of Realville and I live in the truth of life where the rubber meets the road and while I would love to agree with my brothers and sisters on these Sign gifts the truth is I am called to believe what the Scriptures actually do say and NOT what I want them to say.
I agree with you King. In fact if we read the Scriptures tongues were HEARD and not spoken.
I want to be very careful here and I do not want to offend anyone at all. We have talked around this now for a long time so I thought we could face it straight on. This is only an OPINION and as I have said before, NO ONE has to accept my opinion,
however that doe snot mean we have to be mean spirited and obnocuouse toward each other. That is not my goal in life.
Having said that I think we all can see that there is a great divide on this issue. On one hand you have those who see the extremes and disbelieve all of it because of the abuses that are done by some people. On the other hand you have those who make the spiritual gifts a measurement of proof that one is spiritual which leads to the idea that :
"I am more spiritual than you are because I can.............".
The fact is, some of the most unspiritual acting people and teachings comes from those claiming to be believers who claim that they are under the influence of the Holy Spirit.
If someone insists that tongues must be the sign proving the Spirit is received, then they need to include “tongues of fire” as a continuing event as well. WHY???? Because since the first time tongues was given to multiple saints at the same time the fire (shekinah glory ) was seen over their heads.
When we see the tongues first being used, it was at Pentecost in Acts 2:4. The miracle of tongues was that those who spoke them did not know the language but those who heard understood them in their own language vs.8,11. There was no interpreter. So tongues were a known languages but unknown to those who spoke it.
Now that is NOT what we see today in churches everywhere where tongues are spoken. The tongues spoken today can not be understood even if there was someone there to interpret what was uttered.
If it is a tongue it has to be known since the word means language and languages are for communication. Our example is the fact that the tongues spoken at Pentecost were the languages of men. They understood what they were saying in their own language.
According to Acts 2:5, they are not some ecstatic utterance that no one knows. If you choose not to agree I still love you but to me God is a God of revelation and communication to man to reveal himself in the Lord Jesus Christ. Anything that takes away from that process must be questioned and examined.
1 Cor. 12:10 states this gift of languages as “kinds of tongues” and diversities of tongues” in vs.28. The word is glossa in Greek means a language used by a particular people that distinguished it from other ones. The word for “kind” and “diversities” in Greek is yenos which means a race, stock, family, nationality. All this points to it being the language of man.
In 1 Cor. 14:1-5 Paul uses the Greek word glossa meaning tongue; Luke uses this word and further defines it as being a dialektos as seen in Acts 1:19; 2:6,8; 21:40; 22:2; 26:14, which is a word that in every case refers to the language of a nation or a region.
(cf. Arndt, p. 184).
But with the Word of God you have today, WHY do you think that you need a prophet????
Like the apostles, prophets ceased with the completion of the New Testament, just as the Old Testament prophets disappeared when that testament was completed, some 400 years before Christ. The church was established according to Eph. 2:20.......
“upon the foundation of the apostles anti prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone”.
Once the foundation was laid, the work of the apostles and prophets was finished.
Consider............
(First Corinthians, The MacArthur New Testament Commentary.
and "Chicago: Moody", 1984], pp. 322–24)
What Bible verse would you use as a basis for your comment?
Having been to more tongue talking events than I can remember, I can honestly say that I have never seen it done Biblically correct.
Most all of the time one person will utter something and then several more and no one ever interprets them and there is always more than two who are speaking. I am sure that there will be some who refute that but that is what I have experienced.
You must be a self-appointed mayor, Major! I also live in Realville and I live according to what the word of God says...not what I want it to say. Some people miss the truth because they were taught otherwise. Holy Spirit desires that we EXPERIENCE Him.
The whole point is that we LOVE because He first loved us. That is the principle of Love and it is demonstrated so that some one who does not love his brother can not love God no matter how much they say they do and act.
Love in "word" is not real; it remains to be demonstrated!