An honest question to cessationists

[CCW95A]

1 Corinthians 14:34 .........
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

The word for "woman" is "wife" not that all women are not to speak, and you know that as a fact without me even telling you this.
All you have to do is read the very next verse and it tells you that!

1Co 14:34.. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35.. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

To even consider that women are not allowed to speak in Church is no where found in scripture.

 

[Euphemia]

1 Corinthians 14:34 .........
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”

What does this admonition have to do with the working of the Holy Spirit in the Body of Christ?

This rule is positive, explicit, and universal. There is no ambiguity in the expressions; and there can be no difference of opinion, one would suppose, in regard to their meaning. The Bible truth is, Paul had been speaking on the correct use of tongues, and then he says the women were to keep silence; they were to take no part in speaking in tongues!!!!

This is a grave error and one that twists scripture to agree with one's bias. It is known that Paul actually encourages women to prophesy (tongues also has a prophetic use). Nowhere does he ever make any admonition for women to not speak in tongues in church.

 

[Euphemia]

My apologies.

I was agreeing with Major on how you are being perceived. You are coming off like unless you pray in tongues you are a lesser Christian who cannot do anything to help further the Kingdom. That is how I am perceiving your posts.

Absolutely not. I have never said or hinted at such a thing. When one has received salvation, that is a done deal forever. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is His equipping us or anointing us for living out our callings with greater power and authority. I only vehemently disagree with those who come off as forbidding the speaking in tongues by their denials.

 

[CCW95A]

Trying to make the Word God say that "women" are to stay quite in the Church is just ridiculous!!
.
Act 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Act 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Act 1:13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
Act 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Luk 2:36 And there was one Anna, a prophetess, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Aser: she was of a great age, and had lived with an husband seven years from her virginity;
Luk 2:37 And she was a widow of about fourscore and four years, which departed not from the temple, but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

 

[Euphemia]

Wrong.

He believes in the gifts, but like me believes that not all will pray/speak in tongues, heal, teach, evangelize, etc...

That is hardly cessationlism.

I also agree with the fact that the ministry gift of tongues whereby one speaks to the congregation FOR God is not for everyone. The tongues that is for all believers is the kind where Holy Spirit speaks to the Father through our submitted vocal cords. Thanks.

 

[Klub]

I also agree with the fact that the ministry gift of tongues whereby one speaks to the congregation FOR God is not for everyone. The tongues that is for all believers is the kind where Holy Spirit speaks to the Father through our submitted vocal cords. Thanks.

Do we have a direct biblical example of speaking in tongues in context of prayer.

Honest question, because this concept of every believer praying in tongues is something I've not heard of. I believe that every prayer should be sincere, and spirit filled, but I've never had the leading of the Holy Spirit to pray in tongues.

 

[CCW95A]

Do we have a direct biblical example of speaking in tongues in context of prayer.

Honest question, because this concept of every believer praying in tongues is something I've not heard of. I believe that every prayer should be sincere, and spirit filled, but I've never had the leading of the Holy Spirit to pray in tongues.

1Co 14:14.. For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

 

[Euphemia]

Do we have a direct biblical example of speaking in tongues in context of prayer.

Honest question, because this concept of every believer praying in tongues is something I've not heard of. I believe that every prayer should be sincere, and spirit filled, but I've never had the leading of the Holy Spirit to pray in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:2-4
For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious. 3 But one who prophesies strengthens others, encourages them, and comforts them. 4 A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I was born again and new I had changed but still as a babe was strugling with things. Down the road I went to a love feast and some of the brothers and the Pastor and my self were sitting around talking about my back ground and past and where I came from or out of. For some reason the Pastor was amazed at the things and spent much time talking with me and then we all decided it was time I got baptised. Ok the owner of the home we were at said use my pool so we did.

I came up out of the watewr praising God and speaking in Tongues. FREAKED ME OUT, I tell you once I began to grasp this I shut up and would not utter another praise. Then like most I went through the stage where I questioned was this of God or what and all sorts of things along those lines.

I just felt like adding this and perhaps it might bless someone I dont know.
I do know some people fret to much over tongues and try to hard and go most of their life thinking they do not have this and it was in them the entire time and like everything else it needs to be developed. Other people are afraid to have it and I do not be lieve God forces this on any one.

I do not believe this makes any Christian more of a Christian over any other Christian BUT it sure helps the one who speaks in tongues.

God Bless every one in here
Jim

 

[Mykuhl]

I was born again and new I had changed but still as a babe was strugling with things. Down the road I went to a love feast and some of the brothers and the Pastor and my self were sitting around talking about my back ground and past and where I came from or out of. For some reason the Pastor was amazed at the things and spen much time talking with me and then we all decided it was time I got baptised. Ok the owner of the home we were at said use my pool so we did.

I came up out of the watewr praising God and speaking in Tongues. FREAKED ME OUT, I tell you once I began to grasp this I shut up and would not utter another praise. Then like most I went through the stage where I questioned was this of God or what and all sorts of things along those lines.

I just felt like adding this and perhaps it might bless someone I dont know.
I do know some people fret to much over tongues and try to hard and go most of their life thinking they do not have this and it was in them the entire tiomje and like everything else it needs to be developed. Other people are afraid have it and I do not be lieve God forces this on any one.

I do not believe this makes any Christian more of a Christian over any other Christian BUT it sure helps theone who speaks in tongues.

God Bless every one in here
Jim

It's funny you should mention your experience with speaking in tongues and going through a period of doubting if it was from God, because I am currently in that stage. I received the gift of tongues a couple of years ago but have hardly used it since then because I have always doubted of it was the real gift of tongues or a false one. I am quite careful when it careful when it comes to letting myself get deceived with false signs.

Could you tell me how you resolved this yourself?

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Hello Jim. I do not expect you to go back and read all the pages that have been produced but allow me to tell you that I have given more than enough Scripture for anyone to work with that actually wants to know what the Scriptures do say.

I am not sure what you are asking me to respond to as there seems to only be a comment and not a question. Your comment has a feeling of sarcasm to it but I know that you would not do that intentionally so I will leave it alone.

The people that know me know that God has called all of us to pray for our brothers and sisters on a regular basis. I even stopped what I was doing when YOU informed us all about your boat and your project and prayed for your success. Our church doors are unlocked everyday so that people came come and go as they wish and sit at the alter of God and pray as they desire and are moved to do so. So to answer your question, we, I do pray for everyone including you my friend because God calls for us to do that.

As for moving mountains, I have no need to do that. I only have a need to reach out to the lost with the gospel so that they might hear and be saved.

The Realville thing started along time ago when the church I was at began to minister to those ladies who were single and pregnant and had been kicked out of there homes by their parents. We as a church bought a home and turned it into a kind of McDonald's House where the women could live for no charge, clean and take care of it until they delivered their baby and able to get back into the game of life. We accepted ALL women no matter what the problems were in their lives and those women started saying that the church "was REAL" to them. Hence the name.

It is no big deal but if it causes you pleasure then run with it. That was some time ago so It really does not apply unless you get joy from it!

Jim, we all will never agree with everything that someone else believes. There are several people here including you that believe in apostles and prophets and signs and wonders. I am not one of them but that should not cause anyone to be rejected or argued with or angry over something that does not matter one way or the other as a Christian Essential to the Faith.

I state what the Bible says and comment on what I have learned over the years and believe. IF you and the others do not like my comments then that is your choice to do so just as the opposite is for me. That choice should in no way lead any of us to be angry or argumenitive or confrontational and I hope I have not been to anyone.

Hello again Major,
I agree with your last part first here. None of us should get angry with one another in here. It is funny that you brought this up for as we were walking back tonight I was praying and kind of talking to God over this same thing. We are Brother and sisters in Christ and called to Love one another even as He has loved us and to Love our enemies so why is it that it seems to be so hard for some to do that in a forum ? We are called or commanded to walk in Love even in here.

Second Thank You for the prayers and all your input over the years that you have been a member here. We all wont agree all of the time but we should be agreeing to walk as Christ Himself not only TOLD US TO WALK but walked Him self.......by Love.

The Mayor stuff was just me being silly and thought I could use it in an example as a point.
I figured it was either something to do with a church project or as some claim I am a reality person and not a faith person and I figured it was the church project or youth thing. Well I was kind of close...Any way if that offended you then I am sorry and ask of you to forgive me. Honestly on this end I was rolling and simply having fun as I tend to do in real life. I think if some one does not laugh around me for more then 10 minutes something is wrong...

As to the rest of the post............what could I say that has not been said back and forth over the course of the day. Like 4 more pages since I made this first reply. Wow !!
Thank You again Major
God Bless
Jim

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

It's funny you should mention your experience with speaking in tongues and going through a period of doubting if it was from God, because I am currently in that stage. I received the gift of tongues a couple of years ago but have hardly used it since then because I have always doubted of it was the real gift of tongues or a false one. I am quite careful when it careful when it comes to letting myself get deceived with false signs.

Could you tell me how you resolved this yourself?

Sorry Mykuhl I missed this reply,
Resolved it ? Let me tell you a little story. Only a few times has any one ever heard me pray in tongues and one lady from India was closer to me then I thought and she told me after we had been prayaing that when she heard me praying in tongues it Blessed Her big time and felt ther Lord say something to her. That was 20 years ago and I am still too careful or something about praying out loud in tongues around other people.

I know when I would begin to pray in Tongues it seemed the enemy hit me with everything under the sun from interruptions to trying to get me to grab a hold of being phoney or of the devil and so much more. I found when I simply stated it is written ........resist the devil and he will flee.....so I am resisting you devil and according to the word you are fleeing so you are now going to deal with His word for you are resisted..

Not too long past that it was quiet and peaceful and and I prayed through. I have heard what would SEEM like an audible voice...Now lets look at this one word again......WHAT SEEMED LIKE and WAS NOT. To be truthful it kind of was louder then a normal audible voice. I could hear it LOUD and CLEAR like it was being spoken to me...........AND I could hear it loud and clear as it seemed it was being explained on the inside of me what was being said AT THE VERY SAME TIME.

That messed with me for weeks. Why of course you know the enemy got in there and sowed doubt in me that it was from God and I wrestled with this. I felt I should talk to a very close sister who knew what was going on and she would give me the answer I was looking for. I got this idea through prayaing about it. So I did. She had a prophetic ministry in sunny south africa.

Well I shared with her what the Lord had told me and she shared with me what she had to tell me before I got a hold of her. I was told that I know what this was and who it was from and it was up to me to believe either of God or the devil playing head games. This was not the answer I wanted but it was the answer He wanted.

It was Our Lord God and then the devil getting in there twisting things and playing war games in my head. Mykuhl I have no idea why I just told you all of this. I have not thought about that for many moons to say the least.

I Believe this is something that only you and God can work out together through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Remember God did not give us the spiirit of timidation or fear but of Love, Power and of sound mind.

God Bless You
Mykuhl

 

[Mykuhl]

Sorry Mykuhl I missed this reply,
Resolved it ? Let me tell you a little story. Only a few times has any one ever heard me pray in tongues and one lady from India was closer to me then I thought and she told me after we had been prayaing that when she heard me praying in tongues it Blessed Her big time and felt ther Lord say something to her. That was 20 years ago and I am still too careful or something about praying out loud in tongues around other people.

I know when I would begin to pray in Tongues it seemed the enemy hit me with everything under the sun from interruptions to trying to get me to grab a hold of being phoney or of the devil and so much more. I found when I simply stated it is written ........resist the devil and he will flee.....so I am resisting you devil and according to the word you are fleeing so you are now going to deal with His word for you are resisted..

Not too long past that it was quiet and peaceful and and I prayed through. I have heard what would SEEM like an audible voice...Now lets look at this one word again......WHAT SEEMED LIKE and WAS NOT. To be truthful it kind of was louder then a normal audible voice. I could hear it LOUD and CLEAR like it was being spoken to me...........AND I could hear it loud and clear as it seemed it was being explained on the inside of me what was being said AT THE VERY SAME TIME.

That messed with me for weeks. Why of course you know the enemy got in there and sowed doubt in me that it was from God and I wrestled with this. I felt I should talk to a very close sister who knew what was going on and she would give me the answer I was looking for. I got this idea through prayaing about it. So I did. She had a prophetic ministry in sunny south africa.

Well I shared with her what the Lord had told me and she shared with me what she had to tell me before I got a hold of her. I was told that I know what this was and who it was from and it was up to me to believe either of God or the devil playing head games. This was not the answer I wanted but it was the answer He wanted.

It was Our Lord God and then the devil getting in there twisting things and playing war games in my head. Mykuhl I have no idea why I just told you all of this. I have not thought about that for many moons to say the least.

I Believe this is something that only you and God can work out together through Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Remember God did not give us the spiirit of timidation or fear but of Love, Power and of sound mind.

God Bless You
Mykuhl

Thank you Jim.

 

[Arrie03]

It's funny you should mention your experience with speaking in tongues and going through a period of doubting if it was from God, because I am currently in that stage. I received the gift of tongues a couple of years ago but have hardly used it since then because I have always doubted of it was the real gift of tongues or a false one. I am quite careful when it careful when it comes to letting myself get deceived with false signs.

Could you tell me how you resolved this yourself?

Here is a simple test.
Go speak with an unbeliever/s, ask them if they ever heard this speaking in tongues thing that Christians do.
The ones that say yes. Ask them to speak in tongues like those believers they heard.

Now have a video camera handy as the results are often candid camera type stuff. Needless, you'll find it's epic failures.
You might meet a demon along they way - so be ready.

 

[Euphemia]

Here is a simple test.
Go speak with an unbeliever/s, ask them if they ever heard this speaking in tongues thing that Christians do.
The ones that say yes. Ask them to speak in tongues like those believers they heard.

Now have a video camera handy as the results are often candid camera type stuff. Needless, you'll find it's epic failures.
You might meet a demon along they way - so be ready.

Why? An unbeliever cannot do such a thing.

 

[Arrie03]

Why? An unbeliever cannot do such a thing.

Exactly.
That's why I said keep your camera handy.
Unbelievers cannot talk in tongues, the few that will try out of themselves completely stuffs it up - and comically so.
So trust me, record it with a video camera, that's all.

 

[Major]

Hello again Major,
I agree with your last part first here. None of us should get angry with one another in here. It is funny that you brought this up for as we were walking back tonight I was praying and kind of talking to God over this same thing. We are Brother and sisters in Christ and called to Love one another even as He has loved us and to Love our enemies so why is it that it seems to be so hard for some to do that in a forum ? We are called or commanded to walk in Love even in here.

Second Thank You for the prayers and all your input over the years that you have been a member here. We all wont agree all of the time but we should be agreeing to walk as Christ Himself not only TOLD US TO WALK but walked Him self.......by Love.

The Mayor stuff was just me being silly and thought I could use it in an example as a point.
I figured it was either something to do with a church project or as some claim I am a reality person and not a faith person and I figured it was the church project or youth thing. Well I was kind of close...Any way if that offended you then I am sorry and ask of you to forgive me. Honestly on this end I was rolling and simply having fun as I tend to do in real life. I think if some one does not laugh around me for more then 10 minutes something is wrong...

As to the rest of the post............what could I say that has not been said back and forth over the course of the day. Like 4 more pages since I made this first reply. Wow !!
Thank You again Major
God Bless
Jim

No problem Jim, really. My wife and I and my sister in law were in Tenn. to visit their brother when another brother had a heart attack and we left immediately to drive all night. It was during that time of stress that I read your response and my thoughts were on edge so it was all me and not you at all.

May I say however that I am very touched by your concern and your comments. Thank you for being polite, and showing Christian love and demeanor.

I agree that no will ever agree with everything someone else thinks. But what we can do is accept their thoughts and opinions and know that we are all trying to lift up the Lord Jesus Christ as best we can.

Please pray for my brother in law, Royce. He is 67 and the heart attack left him at 35% capacity. The doctors are doing 4 stints this aft. to try and help ease the breathing problems.

 

[Major]

My brother, may I give you my honest and straightforward opinion on what you wrote here?

I would not have it any other way as long as you remember that I did not write those comments in Corinthians.

 

[Euphemia]

I agree that no will ever agree with everything someone else thinks. But what we can do is accept their thoughts and opinions and know that we are all trying to lift up the Lord Jesus Christ as best we can.

That is a sure thing, here among those of us who differ on the Holy Spirit. These differences are not to do with salvation, and no one who is born again and has a view like your own is not to be considered an unbeliever or a lesser believer, or even lesser in faith. These matters are spiritually discerned matters, and not everyone is at the same place, spiritually, but in the Kingdom economy, we are all there.

Please pray for my brother in law, Royce. He is 67 and the heart attack left him at 35% capacity. The doctors are doing 4 stints this aft. to try and help ease the breathing problems.

Praying for Royce and your whole family at this stressful time, and for the Lord to steady and improve Royce's heart function, so that he may live a longer, productive life...in Jesus' name!

 

[Major]

Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


Joh 11:33 When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, and the Jews also weeping which came with her, he groaned in the spirit, and was troubled,

I hope that you are not suggesting that the phrase..."groaned in His spirit" is a reference to speaking in tongues!!!

The Greek verb used here in the verses you posted mean "to become ANGRY".

If you consider the very next verse you see that Jesus WEPT.