As a slight aside, I am sure that when Jesus had interactions with angels, such as in Gethsemane, there was heavenly speech going on.
An honest question to cessationists
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As a slight aside, I am sure that when Jesus had interactions with angels, such as in Gethsemane, there was heavenly speech going on.
I agree totally with your comment and thank you so much for the prayer my sister.
We can talk, and we can disagree but we must always remember to stay in love and respect each others comments.
God bless you!
Agreed!
But he does say clearly that women are not to speak in church.
Again, consider the words and remember....I DID NOT WRITE THEM!!!
Here it is again for all of us.......
1 Corinthians 14:34 .........
“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.”
Now allow me to help. Please feel free to reject my comments as I am no expert. However you all have a computer and my encouragement is to google the above verse and seek the comments of others.
I did that a long time before there was an internet and what I found out was actually very simple.
The whole 14th chapter is about one thing........TONGUES. That is the context of what Paul is talking about.
Who can have them, when they are valid, who are they for, how they can be used and then when Paul gets down to the end of the chapter he says that women are not to speak in the church.
Well we know that is not Biblical because he told other women to speak and pray in the church. So what is the issue??????
TONGUES! Paul IMHO is saying that women are not to speak in tongues in the church.
Pray about it, consider what I am saying and if you disagree.....I still love you!
God love ya brother but what you are saying seems to me exactly what I am saying. The "women/wives (if you prefer) were told in the black and white of the Bible to keep silent and then go home and asher their HUSBAND which means the women spoken of were in fact "wives".
I am sorry but I do not understand your point here brother.
From other Bible accounts Paul was aware the women were permitted to speak in public worship services as long as they were properly dressed. It is my belief that Paul was referring to the women/wives speaking in tongues in church.
I know everyone does not like to hear that especially the women who speak in tongues in the church BUT please folks, rememeber,
It was PAUL who wrote that and not me.
If you have a better explination now would be a good time to put it out there to explain what Paul was saying instead of yelling at me for bringing it up.
You are preaching to the choir my friend. But believe me on this one......this web site just does not tolerate any rudeness or personal comments. It is in the sites rules and I believe it is rule 3.2. It cost me a two week ban not long ago.
That is why I am so sweet today!!!!!!
Well my friend that is not me. I KNOW that the miracles were completed by Jesus and I know that the Holy Spirit was given to the apostles when Jesus ascended and THEY did miracles, raised the dead, withstood snake bites and drank poison water. They spoke in tonges and healed the sick.
I just wanted YOU to know that so that we are on the same page.
Bless you!
Contextually that is not a command for women.
No, but there is a tendency for many people to misinterpret them.
Recap the chapter as Paul has done:
1 Corinthians 14:26
26 Well, my brothers and sisters, let’s summarize.
The portion about women is just an additional exhortation above the exhortation on tongues concerning ORDER in church meetings.
Women are never to be prohibited from speaking tongues as the prophetic gift to the Body of Christ. Paul encourages all to prophesy, including women, as in 1 Corinthians 11:5, and of course ALL people in 1 Corinthians 12:7-11.
That was for 1st century Palestine, where "church" was a whole new thing and women didn't know how to congregate as Jewish men especially had been taught since boyhood. Many new female converts in Corinth were former sex workers in the pagan shrines located everywhere in the city, and were unruly in manner, and were shorn bald, and Paul had to exhort them to cover their heads. Most definitely, women needed to be brought up to speed about how to do the church meeting thing.
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Brother, there is no way you can make the case that women can not speak in tongues in Church. How many where in the upper room when the Holy Ghost came filled them all? 120. Where there any women with them? Absolutely yes, even Mary the mother of Jesus was there, and they ALL spoke in tongues. When you have 120 gathered together would that be called a Church setting? Did the women speak in "tongues"? Yes, they all did.
Act 1:13.. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.
Act 1:14.. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.
Women praying or prophesying in the Church weather by tongues and interpretation or not it makes no difference. Women can and do today speak in tongues in the Church!!
1Co 11:5.. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Again, you are not getting it. Women here is referring to "wives" who are not to talk in Church while the service is going on. If they learn anything they are to ask their husbands when they get home.
1Co 14:34.. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35.. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
Understanding this is a no brainier...Its easy, it is as plain as day!!!
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Major we are praying
A NO Brainer...Yes. I agree completly.
The event in the Upper Room was BEFORE the Church in Corinth was corrected by Paul's letter as to the correct usage of tongues.
Aren't wives, women my brother. You are right, I do not get that.
I agree that women speak in tongues in church today and YOU do not get it. That is totally in error according to the directions that Paul gave to the church on the use of tongues.
REMEMBER, Please.....I did not write the letter to the Corinthians. I am only reading what Paul wrote and to me it is a no brainer.
It is right there in the black and white and I had nothing to do with it.
I would suggest that YOU begin to post comments as to how YOU explain what Paul wrote so that all the women who are disobeying the Word of God could understand WHY and not spend so much time trying to convince me that I am wrong.
I say that is love and respect because I am not the enemy to anyone.
It is a shame that people cannot understand Paul, and how he was a champion of women in ministry---not the other way around. The rudimentary reading of "black and white" is the problem.
What Pentecost brought to all Christians, men and women and children alike did not need to be correction concerning WHO ministered in that gift, but HOW it was done. Women were newly included in this new way of worshiping the Lord in a church meeting setting, and they would call out and speak out of turn and cause disruption in the meetings. That is why Paul disciplined the churches about speaking out of order.
What Pentecost brought to all Christians, men and women and children alike did not need to be correction concerning WHO ministered in that gift, but HOW it was done. Women were newly included in this new way of worshiping the Lord in a church meeting setting, and they would call out and speak out of turn and cause disruption in the meetings. That is why Paul disciplined the churches about speaking out of order.
Now that is exactly what I am talking about. That is how to explain why Paul wrote his letter of correction and not focusing on me because I posted what Paul wrote. Well said my sister.
Some of you, God bless you and I am not attacking you only stating what has been said.......have been trying to correct ME on what I said when all I have done is quote the Scriptures that Paul wrote. Some of you, God bless you, seem to think that I had something to do with Paul's letter and I am saying something that you have never heard.
I suggest that you guys speak to what Paul said and try to explain his teachings and give a lot less focus to the old Major on this subject.
I will ask you once again to read that whole 14th chapter of 1 Corinthians and come back and tell us all that the CONTEXT of Paul's comments were not about the speaking of tongues in the church. Then at the end his direction was ....................
"the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says."
The question I posed originally was......"Is that what is being practiced in church today"??????
And if you think that was a one time blup on Paul's part, he repeats himself in............
1 Timothy 2:11-12 (NKJV)
" Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."
Now that is the focus you need to be talking about and direct your attention to. Lets have some explinations on this.............
I have to say this because it has been bugging me for a bit now: I am put off by these comments such as, "it's a no brainer" and "the rudimentary reading of black and white." To me this insinuates the person is dull or lacks intelligence because he/she can't see something that is easy to see, and right in front of them.
My understanding is different. I believe Paul means that women/wives can indeed speak in church because Paul was a champion of women and their rites.
We know that earlier in the 1 Corinthians 11:5, Paul mentions women’s praying and prophesying as allowable activities, and we know that older women are to teach younger women as seen in Titus 2:4. Therefore, 1 Corinthians 14:33–35 must not be an absolute command for women to be silent in church but goes to the CONTEXT of Paul's reason of writing to the church.
Correction! What to do and why we doit and in that context the 14th chapter is about TONGUES.
My "opinion" and it is an opinion that it all boils down to him saying that women can not speak in TONGUES in the church.
When we do a study of the reasons WHY Paul wrote his letter of correction, we see that the concern of 1 Corinthians 14, and much of the epistle, is order and structure in the church. The Corinthian church was noted for the chaos and lack of order rampant in that assembly (verse 33). It seems that everyone in the church service was participating with whatever expression they desired, whenever they desired. As a result, those with the gift of tongues were speaking simultaneously, those with a revelation from God were shouting out randomly, and no one was concerned with interpreting what was being said, even if what was said could be heard above the din. The meetings quickly descended into chaos.
When we read the chapter we see that part of the confusion in the Corinthian church included women speaking in tongues and these women were taking the lead in the services instead of being submissive to the authorities in the church. Apparently, certain women in the Corinthian church were also out of order in disruptively asking questions during the already chaotic services. God’s instruction through Paul is that the women should “keep silent in the churches” and stop the tongues-speaking (verses 27–28).
This rule is for “all the congregations of the saints” (verse 33), not just for Corinth.
The command of 1 Corinthians 14:34 is not that women be absolutely silent in the church all the time. It is only saying that women should not participate in the speaking of tongues, or the interpreting of tongues in the general assembly.
Believe me ladies, I know you do not like reading those words. AGAIN, I did not write Corinthians I only read what Paul wrote.
If anyone disagrees......Praise God for the ability of freedom of choice!!!!!
I am only explaining the situation as I see it and I hope you will not throw a song book at me over this.
I am NOT speaking against women. YOU said that I did not. Again, it would be better if you spoke to Paul's writing instead of putting words in my mouth.
All I said is that which Paul wrote, and he said that apparently women are not to speak in tongues in church.
My thinking is that those who do not accept his words are the ones who need a revelation from God on why they do not accept it.
I agree and being guilty of that I apologize for any remark like that. All people tend to respond as they are spoken to hence the response when we perceive that we are being marginalized.
Thank you for the advice!