Catholics, Orthodox And Friends

[Major]

They also seem to take great delight in mocking science texts, the dictionary, and other authoritative texts if those texts do not support their own definitions and beliefs. And since this is a thread concerning Catholicism, as an example I can cite that if they contend that Catholicism is not Christianity, but the dictionary and reputable history texts say they are, then the dictionary and history books are "man-made" and wrong.

I am of the opinion that this thread is a very divisive one. The idea that no one should comment if they do not agree with the RCC is silly and actually seems to me against the rules of the site. Instead of "inclusiveness" the OP is working hard to extort "EXCLUSIVNESS".

I really think this needs to be shut down as I personally do not see any constructive work that can come from this.

We all need to try and get along and that is possible only through comunication.

Consider what the Bible tells us in 1 Peter 2:15-17........

"For so is the will of God that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. As free and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness but as the servants of God. Honour all men! Love the brotherhood! Fear God! Honour the king!".

 

[MMurphy]

Whoaaaa. It is neither a place for Catholic proselytizing. It is a place for the truth and Love for the Christ of God to be expounded not a religion so to speak.

Major, were really not trying to promote Catholicism, we only want to avoid the denial that Catholics are not christians. I don't think any of us have declared catholicism to be the true faith, even though they have a case for it, but we do want a place which recognizes the importance of good works and not just faith.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

I am of the opinion that this thread is a very divisive one. The idea that no one should comment if they do not agree with the RCC is silly and actually seems to me against the rules of the site. Instead of "inclusiveness" the OP is working hard to extort "EXCLUSIVNESS".

I really think this needs to be shut down as I personally do not see any constructive work that can come from this.

We all need to try and get along and that is possible only through comunication.

Consider what the Bible tells us in 1 Peter 2:15-17........

"For so is the will of God that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men. As free and not using your liberty for a cloak of maliciousness but as the servants of God. Honour all men! Love the brotherhood! Fear God! Honour the king!".

I agree that it is divisive, and I do agree with you...but if this one is shut down, so should the other thread that explicitly excluded Catholics from weighing in.

I'd like to see each thread open to different perspectives.

 

[Euphemia]

As I think I mentioned there are Bibles in Catholic churches if the need should arise, but I still don't see it happening. Much of what goes on in a Catholic church service isn't going to require people delving into their Bibles.

That makes me sad.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

That makes me sad.

Don't be misunderstood. The Catholic Mass is open for Catholics opening their Bibles especially since there is a lot of Bible reading that takes place, but the Mass is a separate and very intimidate form of worship -- it's not only a homily or Bible study. Just as the early Christians didn't have available Bibles for their Mass until about the 1700s when Bibles were becoming affordable.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

That makes me sad.

Why? A Catholic mass isn't a group Bible study. That happens separately, but it isn't to say that it doesn't go on. It absolutely does. Catholics are in no way anti-Bible. Never heard that my entire life except in recent days.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

I really think this needs to be shut down as I personally do not see any constructive work that can come from this.

You would shut down a group thread discussion about Catholicism on a Christian forum site? Why? Even if you see nothing constructive coming of it, what about those of us who wish to participate in such a thing? I disagree with a lot of what I read in the fundamentalist Christian threads but I don't attempt to censor them.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

You would shut down a group thread discussion about Catholicism on a Christian forum site? Why? Even if you see nothing constructive coming of it, what about those of us who wish to participate in such a thing? I disagree with a lot of what I read in the fundamentalist Christian threads but I don't attempt to censor them.

PeaceLikeARiver, I have to defend my friend Major.
It isn't that he believes a thread made mostly for Catholics should be shut down, but that a thread that discriminates others from discussing is divisive and interrupts the point of this forum. And I have to agree with him.

Though there is another thread (and it isn't the first) that excludes Catholics from discussing.

What should be discredited is people co-opting the point of each thread to start debate of something off subject.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

PeaceLikeARiver, I have to defend my friend Major.
It isn't that he believes a thread made mostly for Catholics should be shut down, but that a thread that discriminates others from discussing is divisive and interrupts the point of this forum. And I have to agree with him.

Though there is another thread (and it isn't the first) that excludes Catholics from discussing.

What should be discredited is people co-opting the point of each thread to start debate of something off subject.

You know I respect your posts and opinions, but you likely are misunderstanding the point of this thread, which isn't to say that others are not welcome from participating in it, but as we have seen in recent days there are posts from a fundamentalist mindset which suggest that Catholics are not Christians and their practices are wrong. That was not why this thread was created, I'm sure I'm speaking for MMurphy on this one. If we begin to discuss the practice of infant baptism, it is neither constructive nor helpful to read from others that it's sinful or unbiblical or whatever. THAT is what we are hoping to avoid.

 

[Major]

Major, were really not trying to promote Catholicism, we only want to avoid the denial that Catholics are not christians. I don't think any of us have declared catholicism to be the true faith, even though they have a case for it, but we do want a place which recognizes the importance of good works and not just faith.

MMurphy........I have no desire to confront you or to argue with you or in fact anyone else. I have already said I think this kind of thread needs to be shut down. Not because it is from you but what it will lead to. YOU can not have a thread like this and demand or even expect those who dusagree with you to be silent. It just will not happen.

Now you just stated that........."we only want to avoid the denial that Catholics are not christians.".

I suspect that you really do not want to accept and understand Roman Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are not the same thing. They are two different intities which most of my Catholic friends readily agree with.

Christians are NOT Christians simply because they say that they believe in Jesus Christ.

Mormons say that they believe in Jesus but would you declar that they are Biblical Christians? If you do then you do not know one single thing about what they believe.

Jehovha Witnesses say that they believe in Jesus but would you decalre them to be Biblical Christians?

Just saying that you believe in Jesus does not make one a Christian. Even the demons of hell know who Jesus is and I think we both know that they are not Christians don't we.???

This is why the Bible goes to such great lengths to tell us who Jesus really is.....God in the flesh, the Creator of all the universe and the Saviour of man. Therefore we have essential doctrines from that Bible that when violated, that church would appear to be Christian, when in fact it would not actually be a Biblical church.

Now lets be careful and understand that I am not throwing a rock at you or the Catholic church. I am giving you factual information that anyone can find. The problem is.......will YOU accept it or try to argue it out of existance??????

The first think I mention to you is the RCC 's practice of promoting Mary to God like status which violates the very 1st Commandment in Exodus 20. In the RCC it is taught that Mary is the "Mediatrix" ( RCC's word not mine) of man.
(Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph # 960). When looking up the word "Mediatix" I found that it means literally,
"C0-redeamer". You might want to give that some serious thought my friend.

Also on the record and taught is tha Mary made atonement for the sins of man.
(Fundamentals of the Cathoilc Dogma, page 213).

Then the RCC teaches that Mary is to be the subject of preaching and worship.
"Vatican Council II, oage 420).

So you see, these are real examples which give pause to what the essentials are when one say that they are a Christian. It is not what we say but what we do that is important and these things I listed for you are REAL. They are NOT Biblical and that is the basis for my comment to you.

Now, there is more we can talk about if you desire to, like faith saves or child baptism but I think you get the point.

Again, I am not your enemy and I am not confronting you in a hostile way or am I denouncing your church or faith. I am simply showing you that there is a difference in what we believe and what the church itself may be teaching. YOU need to understand these differences. IF you are comfortable with them.......then the Lord Bless you!

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

It's also a little bit strange that four pages into this thread, we are still trying to lay the groundwork to actually DISCUSS something and have everyone be respectful about it.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

You know I respect your posts and opinions, but you likely are misunderstanding the point of this thread, which isn't to say that others are not welcome from participating in it, but as we have seen in recent days there are posts from a fundamentalist mindset which suggest that Catholics are not Christians and their practices are wrong. That was not why this thread was created, I'm sure I'm speaking for MMurphy on this one. If we begin to discuss the practice of infant baptism, it is neither constructive nor helpful to read from others that it's sinful or unbiblical or whatever. THAT is what we are hoping to avoid.

Perhaps I misunderstood then. Perhaps you just wanted to make a thread with the rule that we stick to the subject and not bring in debate over Catholic teaching just so the conversation can carry on -- is that right?

 

[LysanderShapiro]

It's also a little bit strange that four pages into this thread, we are still trying to lay the groundwork to actually DISCUSS something and have everyone be respectful about it.

I understand. Sometimes when I want to discuss, I'm accused of pushing an agenda. Not from everyone -- certainly not Major -- but it's true. Sometimes I'm not even allowed to discuss.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

And Major's recent post is a very clear example of what we don't want to see happening in this thread. Part of the problem is he is making it appear to be a fact that Catholics promote Mary to God-like status when in fact it's an opinion of his, maybe a strongly-held one, but we disagree with it. Moreover, it's not news, we KNOW this is what fundamentalists think. But it is like a roadblock to actual discussion about the subject for those who wish to do so.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

Perhaps I misunderstood then. Perhaps you just wanted to make a thread with the rule that we stick to the subject and not bring in debate over Catholic teaching just so the conversation can carry on -- is that right?

We aren't looking for debate, we are looking for unmolested discussion.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

We aren't looking for debate, we are looking for unmolested discussion.

Indeed. I'm probably wording this poorly. Believe you me, I'm with you. It would be nice, for a change, to be able to discuss Christianity from the Catholic perspective without it being interrupted. I don't mind if people weigh in their perspective from their perspective, but sometimes if it comes down to "prove to me how you are right" then the discussion does get put aside into defense of the faith itself.

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

Indeed. I'm probably wording this poorly. Believe you me, I'm with you. It would be nice, for a change, to be able to discuss Christianity from the Catholic perspective without it being interrupted. I don't mind if people weigh in their perspective from their perspective, but sometimes if it comes down to "prove to me how you are right" then the discussion does get put aside into defense of the faith itself.

Now we are on exactly the same page. So many Christians want to rush in and "correct" others, but to me that is disrespecting people's rights to hold their own beliefs and to discuss them.

 

[Glomung]

I'm a bit late to the party it seems, and it's going as well as expected.

Theistic evolution - the idea that evolution occurs as has been suggested by Darwin and others but that God has a hand in the particular outcomes with each species

A person who is well versed in the bilogical sciences and who is also a believer would be likley to adhere to this.

 

[Ravindran]

I have seen in other forums where there there are separate sections for different beliefs.. I don't know if the mods have deliberately stayed away from something like that.. May be some setup like that would help in these kind of discussions.. Otherwise, it would always end in a debate and derailed.. On one side it is nice to see the passion of believers

 

[PeaceLikeaRiver]

I don't know what the answer is, but on the Yahoo Answers forums a Catholic might ask a question like "My newborn niece is being baptized this Sunday, what should I wear?" And 15 people will jump in screaming WHY ARE YOU BAPTIZING AN INFANT IT IS UNBIBLICAL AND IT JUST GETS THE BABY WET AND YOU WILL GO TO HELL.

I mean, there's very little hyperbole to what I just said, believe it or not. Here was someone looking for a simple answer to a simple question and before anyone could open their mouth to answer, she was ganged up on by people looking to proselytize. Who benefits from this? The asker just walks away feeling beaten up...by other people's Bibles.