Catholics, Orthodox And Friends

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You cannot forget the truth of God's word in any situation. It is there for reproof and correction. We would be remiss as believers if we neglected what God says about any given thing.
 
Euphemia said:
You cannot forget the truth of God's word in any situation. It is there for reproof and correction. We would be remiss as believers if we neglected what God says about any given thing.
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Too bad it's so subjective. And before you suggest it's not, consider how many denominations of Christianity there are.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Yes, God's word is truth. No one is disputing that. What is in dispute is that someone knows it better or truer than someone else.
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Pride gets in the way of people receiving truth with humility and gladness. Correction is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow, but in the one who desires God, it is a good thing, as it gets down into the very physical pith of people as well as their spirits.

Hebrews 4:12 (NLT)
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
 
Major said:
MMurphy........I have no desire to confront you or to argue with you or in fact anyone else. I have already said I think this kind of thread needs to be shut down. Not because it is from you but what it will lead to. YOU can not have a thread like this and demand or even expect those who dusagree with you to be silent. It just will not happen.

Now you just stated that........."we only want to avoid the denial that Catholics are not christians.".

I suspect that you really do not want to accept and understand Roman Catholicism and Biblical Christianity are not the same thing. They are two different intities which most of my Catholic friends readily agree with.

Christians are NOT Christians simply because they say that they believe in Jesus Christ.

Mormons say that they believe in Jesus but would you declar that they are Biblical Christians? If you do then you do not know one single thing about what they believe.

Jehovha Witnesses say that they believe in Jesus but would you decalre them to be Biblical Christians?

Just saying that you believe in Jesus does not make one a Christian. Even the demons of hell know who Jesus is and I think we both know that they are not Christians don't we.???

This is why the Bible goes to such great lengths to tell us who Jesus really is.....God in the flesh, the Creator of all the universe and the Saviour of man. Therefore we have essential doctrines from that Bible that when violated, that church would appear to be Christian, when in fact it would not actually be a Biblical church.

Now lets be careful and understand that I am not throwing a rock at you or the Catholic church. I am giving you factual information that anyone can find. The problem is.......will YOU accept it or try to argue it out of existance??????

The first think I mention to you is the RCC 's practice of promoting Mary to God like status which violates the very 1st Commandment in Exodus 20. In the RCC it is taught that Mary is the "Mediatrix" ( RCC's word not mine) of man.
(Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph # 960). When looking up the word "Mediatix" I found that it means literally,
"C0-redeamer". You might want to give that some serious thought my friend.

Also on the record and taught is tha Mary made atonement for the sins of man.
(Fundamentals of the Cathoilc Dogma, page 213).

Then the RCC teaches that Mary is to be the subject of preaching and worship.
"Vatican Council II, oage 420).

So you see, these are real examples which give pause to what the essentials are when one say that they are a Christian. It is not what we say but what we do that is important and these things I listed for you are REAL. They are NOT Biblical and that is the basis for my comment to you.

Now, there is more we can talk about if you desire to, like faith saves or child baptism but I think you get the point.

Again, I am not your enemy and I am not confronting you in a hostile way or am I denouncing your church or faith. I am simply showing you that there is a difference in what we believe and what the church itself may be teaching. YOU need to understand these differences. IF you are comfortable with them.......then the Lord Bless you!
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I have no problem with this major. I simply don't like the arrogent anti Catholicism. You raise legitimate points so let me give the reasons why I don't consider that to be non-christian.

Mary- as a non Catholic I agree with you that there is often a tendency by some catholics to misrepresented the status to Mary. However the Church has never sanctioned Mary worship. The thinking of the Church has been, however, that as the Mother of God, she holds an important place of honor and it would be worse to disparage her than to over exalt her. She was after all our Lord's earthly mother.

As for prayer to the saints, it may come as a theological conflict and you may disagree but I would implore you to try to understand. Since a saint comes into union with God through a kind of mysticism called theosis one can pray through the saint to God. In the time of the Hebrews there was no concept of Heaven because Jesus had not yet brought about the defeat of death.

Jehovah's witnesses are not chrisains because they reject Jesus was God. They do however only recognize the Bible.

Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe in the union of father, son and holy spirit. Nevertheless I would not be disinclined to consider the lay mormons as Christians because of their charitable heart. Even if they get their theology mixed up.

In any case the Catholic church is not a 'new church' like LDS or JW, and you will need to conclude what happened to all the souls the died before the reformation.
 
Euphemia said:
Pride gets in the way of people receiving truth with humility and gladness. Correction is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow, but in the one who desires God, it is a good thing, as it gets down into the very physical pith of people as well as their spirits.

Hebrews 4:12 (NLT)
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
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Yes Euphemia correction is a bitter pill to swallow isn't it?
 
Euphemia said:
Pride gets in the way of people receiving truth with humility and gladness. Correction is sometimes a bitter pill to swallow, but in the one who desires God, it is a good thing, as it gets down into the very physical pith of people as well as their spirits.
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I wonder, when you are corrected by Christians, how bitter is it? Do you take the fact that you were wrong in a healthy spirit?
 
MMurphy said:
Yes Euphemia correction is a bitter pill to swallow isn't it?
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I don't mind proper correction from the word of God, because I am glad to learn so that I can continue to grow in Christ. I welcome it---especially from those whom I trust to know the word and the Giver well.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
I wonder, when you are corrected by Christians, how bitter is it? Do you take the fact that you were wrong in a healthy spirit?
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I don't mind it when I know that they love Jesus Christ and their lives demonstrate they know Him and know and love His word. God places people in the lives of His children to correct us and rebuke us when we are wrong. It's all good.
 
I think that if someone asks a question about specific Catholic practice, what they are looking to get in response is an answer to that question, and not some non-sequitur answer that might very well be perfectly scriptural but is disputable and/or unwelcome. It's like when the Jehovah's Witnesses come calling. Even if every word out of their mouths happens to be true, you might not be receptive to hearing it at that particular moment.
 
A scriptural answer is unwelcome? Christians welcome scriptural answers! It is why they come to forums like this! If one doesn't welcome biblical input, then maybe another kind of forum is the place to be, eh?
 
Euphemia said:
That is something that is subjective that you will have to deal with in yourself, unfortunately.
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You must realize that a lot of ignorance exists in the world pertaining to Catholicism. And as a Catholic he gets frustrated by people assuming he is not Christian even though their Christianity is based on his Catholicism.
 
MMurphy said:
I have no problem with this major. I simply don't like the arrogent anti Catholicism. You raise legitimate points so let me give the reasons why I don't consider that to be non-christian.

Mary- as a non Catholic I agree with you that there is often a tendency by some catholics to misrepresented the status to Mary. However the Church has never sanctioned Mary worship. The thinking of the Church has been, however, that as the Mother of God, she holds an important place of honor and it would be worse to disparage her than to over exalt her. She was after all our Lord's earthly mother.

As for prayer to the saints, it may come as a theological conflict and you may disagree but I would implore you to try to understand. Since a saint comes into union with God through a kind of mysticism called theosis one can pray through the saint to God. In the time of the Hebrews there was no concept of Heaven because Jesus had not yet brought about the defeat of death.

Jehovah's witnesses are not chrisains because they reject Jesus was God. They do however only recognize the Bible.

Mormons are not Christians because they do not believe in the union of father, son and holy spirit. Nevertheless I would not be disinclined to consider the lay mormons as Christians because of their charitable heart. Even if they get their theology mixed up.

In any case the Catholic church is not a 'new church' like LDS or JW, and you will need to conclude what happened to all the souls the died before the reformation.
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I have to disagree with the RCC never sanctioning Mary as a product of worship. That doctrine is in fact located in the Catholic Dogma I posted for you. I find it disturbing that you would think I just made up those comments where the actual name of the RCC production the information is found in. Is that your way of rejecting what your own denomination has said. You blame others for repeating what they said. Surely we can do better than that.

As for prayer to the saints, that again is a Catholic doctrine and NOT a Biblical one which again proves my thesis. The Bible clearly teaches us that there is ONE mediator between God and man and that is the man Jesus Christ.

The JW"S only recognize THEIR translation which is the "New World Translation" and it is the worst translation to ever have been produced. It completely destroys the Greek grammer and adds words which do not exist in order to make their teaching to fit.

As for Mormons and their charity, and heart....that my friend has nothing to do with Christianity. They reject Christ as Saviour and in fact insist that man must be saved by Josheph Smith to be saved.

Do you really think that a man can be saved by his "SINCERITY"????

Do this for us.......Post the Bible verse that says a man can be saved because of his good heart or his sincerity!!!!!!

That is all I ask. No need to use glowing words of philosophic thought, just post the Bible verses.
 
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MMurphy said:
You must realize that a lot of ignorance exists in the world pertaining to Catholicism. And as a Catholic he gets frustrated by people assuming he is not Christian even though their Christianity is based on his Catholicism.
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Inside Catholicism as well as outside of it, many are saved and many are not. If one wants to be received as saved, one must always declare that they have received Jesus as Saviour, and put their faith in Him. No one is saved by their affiliation.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
And Major's recent post is a very clear example of what we don't want to see happening in this thread. Part of the problem is he is making it appear to be a fact that Catholics promote Mary to God-like status when in fact it's an opinion of his, maybe a strongly-held one, but we disagree with it. Moreover, it's not news, we KNOW this is what fundamentalists think. But it is like a roadblock to actual discussion about the subject for those who wish to do so.
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NO He is not. The Major quoted the Catholic Churches OWN words as applied to the doctrines of the Bible.

Major does not care if you are a Catholic. That is your choice. I am just trying to make you see that there is a difference between Catholic faith and Biblical Christianity as they appear in the RCC OWN words.......not mine.

That is why I went to the trouble to look up the productions that the RCC words and teachings were found in.
 
Major said:
NO He is not. The Major quoted the Catholic Churches OWN words as applied to the doctrines of the Bible.

Major does not care if you are a Catholic. That is your choice. I am just trying to make you see that there is a difference between Catholic faith and Biblical Christianity as they appear in the RCC OWN words.......not mine.

That is why I went to the trouble to look up the productions that the RCC words and teachings were found in.
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In the Catholic words the difference is that they also adhere to sacred tradition as they read scripture.
 
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