Constructive Criticism in Today's Preaching

[bobinfaith]

Dear brothers, sisters and those who are pastors;

During our Thursday evening Bible study we had a heart felt discussion about the style of preaching and as I took notes, I jotted down a few of the comments;

"Much of today's evangelical preaching is far from the sermons demonstrated by Jesus, Peter, Paul and more."

"Today's sermons can get off track from the original subject."

"Today's preachers are using too many "catchy phrases" like "let go and let God," or, "name it and claim it," or "we're not perfect, just forgiven," or, "we may be rejected but we are protected" and so on, as if catchy and clever phrases will attract and sustain the congregation."

Since I'm a preacher and have had my personal growing pains of delivering sermons, I rebutted and asked them,

"Do you feel the preacher didn't pray and is just winging it? Is the message what you don't want to hear? Are you judging the preacher's style? Or are you distracted and overlook the message that God is actually using his Shepherd to deliver?"

This was received with more comments. I was somewhat blessed to have this dialogue with the group. They do listen to many other preachers outside our church family - radio, internet, tv, etc...

I have always encouraged our church family to pray for the preacher before and during the message.

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

I wanted to ask if we can discuss this topic here and get your thoughts?

Thank you, everybody.

 

[forgiven61]

not sure exactly what thoughts your looking for. but preaching/being a a pastor is more of a challenge than say 20 years ago. to date the virus is looming again which will affect attendance. i feel in some ways preaching has changed . but in all the Church is in a battle i think of this scripture

Jeremiah 6:16​

“Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.” i feel in some ways we have veered of the path and use programs over real preaching . if this is not what your looking for maybe tomorrow. i can do something different let the church be the church

 

[rtm3039]

Dear brothers, sisters and those who are pastors;

During our Thursday evening Bible study we had a heart felt discussion about the style of preaching and as I took notes, I jotted down a few of the comments;

"Much of today's evangelical preaching is far from the sermons demonstrated by Jesus, Peter, Paul and more."

"Today's sermons can get off track from the original subject."

"Today's preachers are using too many "catchy phrases" like "let go and let God," or, "name it and claim it," or "we're not perfect, just forgiven," or, "we may be rejected but we are protected" and so on, as if catchy and clever phrases will attract and sustain the congregation."

Since I'm a preacher and have had my personal growing pains of delivering sermons, I rebutted and asked them,

"Do you feel the preacher didn't pray and is just winging it? Is the message what you don't want to hear? Are you judging the preacher's style? Or are you distracted and overlook the message that God is actually using his Shepherd to deliver?"

This was received with more comments. I was somewhat blessed to have this dialogue with the group. They do listen to many other preachers outside our church family - radio, internet, tv, etc...

I have always encouraged our church family to pray for the preacher before and during the message.

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

I wanted to ask if we can discuss this topic here and get your thoughts?

Thank you, everybody.

I too am not sure what you are asking, probably because it went from catchy language to message preparation.

As you know, I am on my church's security ministry. As such, I attend all three services on Sundays. With my wife gone for the week, I will attend services both this Saturday and Sunday. With being there for all three Sunday services, I get to see the evolution of the messages. For sure, the 9:20 message is not the same as the 12:20 message (it evolves).

We are a large church, so we are not short on pastors and each take turns. For the most part, the main pastors are Pastor Omar (our lead pastor) and Pastor Carlos (our teaching pastor). We have five other campus pastor who also take turns.

For 22 years, our lead pastor was Pastor Rick. He retired and handed over the lead to Omar. As hard as he tries, Pastor Omar is not Pasto Rick. His ministry has not been easy, taking into account that within months of taking over, we went into lockdown. The funny thing about the lockdown is that we have way more people attend online than we did in person. As "things" have relaxed, attendance is picking up but I have yet to see a service break 1,300 people (which use to be the norm).

Each pastor has his own style, but they all follow a similar path. There is always a theme. For this series, the theme is "Living the Good Life." Messages start with the Word straight from the book. This is followed by some real world example from either the pastor's own life or someone he knows. Then it's either teaching or preaching (depends on who is doing the talking). After that, there is some illustration with some prop. It usually ends with a pastoral prayer intended for those that just started attending and have yet to establish a personal relationship with God (here is a link to one:

)

Sometimes I am distracted by something one of them says that is technically not right. As an example, last week the pastor said a prayer for the people of Cuba and made the comment that the Cuban people had not seen freedom in over 60 years. Before Castro it was Batista and he was just as bad.

Pastor Omar is in his early 30s and has one 4 y/o daughter. At that age, he really can't rely on his worldly experience to guide the older generation. He is not a child either, so he has issues with the youth population. He is not particularly charismatic, so it's not the type of message that captures the audience (Pastor Carlos is the charismatic one), but some people consider Pastor Carlos a "pretty boy" and that distracts. Ok, he kind of is a "pretty buy," but he delivers good messages.



Ok, I am now rambling. The bottom line is that these are not the good old days and pastors now have to appeal to multiple generations at once. If the goal is to save a soul (hey, look, a catchy phrase), you have to draw people in. You also can not expect that an entire message is going to do the trick. To me, I settle for one sentence that lights my path long enough to allow me to move forward (which I usually do on my own later on during the week).

Ok, I am done and I too have no idea what I just said

Rtm

 

[crossnote]

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

Bob, could you give an example of the 'example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels'?
Often Jesus would heal someone after giving His message. ???

 

[2404]

I think one difference is that this age is characterized by information overload. It contains a lot of noise so it is increasingly difficult to catch people's attention and hold it. Catch phrases rally thought which may assist focusing.

 

[sandman]

When I first started preaching …I would have things laid out. I knew where I was going, the point I was going to make, and how it would either benefit or was applicable in peoples lives. And I didn’t much deviate from my lay-out………..That lasted about 6 months.

It was an outdoor teaching; I had my notes and knew where I was going…As I started (and you may understand this) there was something inside me that said…. go this direction….. totally different than what I had planned ….and I went with it. Afterwards I had many people come up to me and tell me how great it was and how it was just what they needed to hear.

As I thought about it that evening, I realized that I do not know what people are going through and what they need to hear…. but God does, and I have the spirit of God within. My job is to bless people’s lives, meet their needs with the Word, and encourage them to a more worthy endeavor so they can walk as super conquerors in this world as a son or daughter of God. And God knows what is the best way to make that happen.....

I still plan my teaching, because I believe God works in my life ….and hopefully what I plan is what body if Christ needs to hear…But my teachings are scripture reference on a sticky or a 3x5. No more cute clichés that I try to build my teaching around…..just scripture. I have to leave room for God to work within me.

Before I begin........ I look at he people and silently ask God to work within me to meet peoples needs and bless their lives ……… There are times when I never get to the first scripture on that stick note…. another scripture will come to mind and off I go ......God has not failed me yet.

“Let go and let God” …would be apropos for my post

 

[crossnote]

I’m not a preacher because I stu-ut-ut-ter too much and it is distracting. (I had done some home fellowship teaching and one on one counseling though).
But what I do look for in a preacher (besides truth) is if he hits hard the foundational and essential truths and themes of Scripture or does he major on the minors?
Does He rely on the inherent power of God’s Word to make effective change in His hearers or is he full of programs, agendas, emotional techniques and gimmicks?

 

[CPerkins]

I'm not a minister, but

Dear brothers, sisters and those who are pastors;

During our Thursday evening Bible study we had a heart felt discussion about the style of preaching and as I took notes,

This was received with more comments. I was somewhat blessed to have this dialogue with the group. They do listen to many other preachers outside our church family - radio, internet, tv, etc...

I have always encouraged our church family to pray for the preacher before and during the message.

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

I wanted to ask if we can discuss this topic here and get your thoughts?

Thank you, everybody.

I too, was trying to digest what it is that you are asking. Church members are like children in many ways. Some are babes, some are older and a few are spiritual adults able to eat the meat of the word. Children rarely know what they need other than basics. A minister is likened to a servant and the greatest ministers are yet greater servants, Christ tells us.

I'm not sure what it means to preach and teach as Christ did, Christ heard and obeyed his Father followed the Father's instructions. We have the Holy Spirit in us, access to God Almighty who can lead each of us in all that we do. We are told that Paul was not a gifted speaker, and yet God through his Spirit worked with Paul in amazing ways to bring many in his day to the Father.

I believe that minister need to access the needs of the church and bring up their flock as children of God. I doubt there is any specific way that is best in doing that and at different times the flock probably needs a different approach.

 

[rtm3039]

I'm not a minister, but




I too, was trying to digest what it is that you are asking. Church members are like children in many ways. Some are babes, some are older and a few are spiritual adults able to eat the meat of the word. Children rarely know what they need other than basics. A minister is likened to a servant and the greatest ministers are yet greater servants, Christ tells us.

I'm not sure what it means to preach and teach as Christ did, Christ heard and obeyed his Father followed the Father's instructions. We have the Holy Spirit in us, access to God Almighty who can lead each of us in all that we do. We are told that Paul was not a gifted speaker, and yet God through his Spirit worked with Paul in amazing ways to bring many in his day to the Father.

I believe that minister need to access the needs of the church and bring up their flock as children of God. I doubt there is any specific way that is best in doing that and at different times the flock probably needs a different approach.

Totally agree.

For the most part, when parents come to church, they place their small children in our "CF Kids" program. That ministry takes care of them and provide age appropriate messages and games. This area is located in the center of the campus and staffed really well. It s a secure area, so parents get a "bar code" when they drop off their kids and need it to pick them up. My only issue is that they have this huge bubble making machine and those bubbles are everywhere.


We also have a ministry for students; however, they attend church with the main group. They attend additional services on Fridays and, once a month, the main campus has our Student Rally. This is usually a major event that starts at 6pm and ends at 11pm. Last one was attended by over 700 kids, most of which are transported to the main campus from our other campuses. The really "cool thing" is that many of those that volunteer for this ministry are actually public school teachers and administrators.


As for the adults, yes, they come in many stages and messages are crafted to take that into consideration. Towards the end of services, the pastor asks "new" people to raise their hands (the lights are lowered to make them feel more comfortable). After that, the whole congregation prays for them. At the end, they are invited to stop by our "Next Step" area, where the pastor meets with them, they are given a bible, and invited to attend what we call "CF 101." This is a 2 hour class where they can meet with many of our pastors and they discuss church activities like our small group program, various ministries, etc.

And, since this is Miami, we do the same thing in Spanish; however, we only have ne Spanish service on Saturday evening.

I'll add this about our messages. Most are what I call "bubble gum" messages, in that they do everything possible to make the message inspirational but not "fire and brimstone." To be honest, taking into account the characters of our pastoral staff, they would not do well with the fire thing. The term most often used to describe are messages is "high impact expository preaching," but I am not all that sure I know what they mean by that.

On line, I have only read a couple of negative reviews. One was that we have some "reserve seating" and the other was from a gentleman who did not like that some of the women in our worship team "sang sensually." I have no idea what the latter issue was. As for the reserve seating, yes, we have some. They are tactical seating for security personnel and pastoral family members. What can I tell you, we like to know where some people are, just in case... We also have two larger blocks of reserve seating. One section is for our deaf congregation so they can better see our interpreter. The second is for our "addiction" ministry and that is mostly for security purposes, as some to not play as well with others as we would like.

 

[forgiven61]

there are different styles of preaching Charles Stanley a good preacher is more a teacher preacher .but effective . i enjoy listening to Adrian Rogers great man of God . complete different style .most of the older preachers i know are very evangelistic/ what they call fire and brimstone i love that style . so when it comes to different style preaching a former pastor /father i the lord said preaching was like eating chicken eat the meat throw the bones away

 

[Musicmaster]

Dear brothers, sisters and those who are pastors;

During our Thursday evening Bible study we had a heart felt discussion about the style of preaching and as I took notes, I jotted down a few of the comments;

"Much of today's evangelical preaching is far from the sermons demonstrated by Jesus, Peter, Paul and more."

"Today's sermons can get off track from the original subject."

"Today's preachers are using too many "catchy phrases" like "let go and let God," or, "name it and claim it," or "we're not perfect, just forgiven," or, "we may be rejected but we are protected" and so on, as if catchy and clever phrases will attract and sustain the congregation."

Since I'm a preacher and have had my personal growing pains of delivering sermons, I rebutted and asked them,

"Do you feel the preacher didn't pray and is just winging it? Is the message what you don't want to hear? Are you judging the preacher's style? Or are you distracted and overlook the message that God is actually using his Shepherd to deliver?"

This was received with more comments. I was somewhat blessed to have this dialogue with the group. They do listen to many other preachers outside our church family - radio, internet, tv, etc...

I have always encouraged our church family to pray for the preacher before and during the message.

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

I wanted to ask if we can discuss this topic here and get your thoughts?

Thank you, everybody.

Bob,

This jabs at yet another anomaly within the institutional model:

The sponges sitting as an audience out there in front of each podium, pulpit, lectern (or whatever each group calls that thing up front), given the stringently closed and silent structure that governs the main gathering in the name of the god of "order," the people logically end up entering each audience chamber with the expectation that each and every sermon needs to be so powerful and dynamic, that every one of them can and should touch them at a deep level.

Please think about this with me: What man out there is uniquely empowered to speak to each and every need in that audience, at whatever level each one is at in their faith walk in life? What man can possible speak to each and every need and desire in a plurality of people within the limited time they have to provide their weekly, planned, Aristotelian rhetoric?

The people expect what is humanly impossible, and yet preachers allow themselves to feel the pressures upon them to do the impossible. There are ways for all those lives to be touched at a much deeper level in each and every one of the main gatherings each week, but the stringent god of "order" simply doesn't allow for that. The god known as Paradigm continues to rule within the vast majority of institutionally bound models.

Now, granted, this will remain anathema in the thinking of those who are enslaved to Paradigm, and will therefore remain poo-pooed in their reactions to this revelation. They are all free to do just that, and the god of Paradigm will continue to rule over them.

Hey, many within congregations are completely content to fulfill their weekly tradition of attendance. We've all been raised in that expectation. Consider public schools: States do not demand quality instruction in academics during the minimum number of hours for attendance in their laws and statutes for every person's attendance in schooling below a certain age. That has carried over into attendance at "church."

So, we have to ask ourselves, "What am I willing to do to reach those who are deep in their faith and desiring of being functional, and yet who are admittedly sitting among the more shallow who are in need to feeding and filling?" Hmm. The functional solutions to this problem isn't rocket science, but remain unthinkable under the shadow of tradition and ecclesiastical, programmatic structure.

We always want them to grasp the gems and gold within our preaching, and to be satisfied with those things...all the while ignoring what they're actually saying in the depths of their messages to us preachers when criticizing the cliche's we may fasten upon to try and wow them with cultural jargon.

In other words, Bob (and all others), we sometimes must be willing to get out of the way of the Lord to do within the lives of those people what He can and will do through each of them to touch the other(s) in ways we as individuals simply cannot accomplish. Stop stacking upon yourselves what simply was never within the Lord's intent for yours and my function as shepherds.

Yes indeed...take up your weapon and stand on that wall as guardians against heresies and disorder...but also be willing to let those whom you guard, and who are filled vessels, pour out into the those other vessels in need of substantive filling. I'm not talking about the band-aids of "cell groups" and such. No. This is about that place where the people have come to be filled that no mere man can accomplish apart from the contrived warm fuzzies they expect to dominate the thinking of those who actually went away with unfulfilled needs.

Does that help everyone to feel bludgeoned? (LOL)

Hey, this hit me right between the eyes in the seat of my pride when I was first assaulted with it, but I never looked back at Paradigm since, and for good reason.

MM

 

[BibleLover]

Dear brothers, sisters and those who are pastors;

During our Thursday evening Bible study we had a heart felt discussion about the style of preaching and as I took notes, I jotted down a few of the comments;

"Much of today's evangelical preaching is far from the sermons demonstrated by Jesus, Peter, Paul and more."

"Today's sermons can get off track from the original subject."

"Today's preachers are using too many "catchy phrases" like "let go and let God," or, "name it and claim it," or "we're not perfect, just forgiven," or, "we may be rejected but we are protected" and so on, as if catchy and clever phrases will attract and sustain the congregation."

Since I'm a preacher and have had my personal growing pains of delivering sermons, I rebutted and asked them,

"Do you feel the preacher didn't pray and is just winging it? Is the message what you don't want to hear? Are you judging the preacher's style? Or are you distracted and overlook the message that God is actually using his Shepherd to deliver?"

This was received with more comments. I was somewhat blessed to have this dialogue with the group. They do listen to many other preachers outside our church family - radio, internet, tv, etc...

I have always encouraged our church family to pray for the preacher before and during the message.

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

I wanted to ask if we can discuss this topic here and get your thoughts?

Thank you, everybody.

The best sermons are expository sermons prayerfully and thoughtfully prepared through effective Bible study methods. Topical sermons are popular, but some fail to feed the flock with the food of God's Word.

 

[crossnote]

The best sermons are expository sermons prayerfully and thoughtfully prepared through effective Bible study methods. Topical sermons are popular, but some fail to feed the flock with the food of God's Word.

I like both. About 80% expository and 20% topical. With expository preaching I find preachers can still 'skirt' around the verses that don't 'fit their previous body of taught doctrine' by 'skimming over' or side stepping the difficult verse altogether.
The positive side of topical study is that it allows the teacher to dig deep into a particular topic/doctrine/subject, but that carries an inherent danger of slanting God's message by 'picking and choosing' verses that 'fit their previous body of taught doctrine'.

 

[forgiven61]

Kent Wilfong​

Circuit Thoughts

Circuit Thoughts​

Tuesday, July 20, 2021
I realize I may have stepped on a few sensibilities last week in my article. I know that we would love to have a religion that is all about us. I understand the attraction of a vending machine god that answers every prayer. But guess what folks, that isn’t what Christianity is about. So, if I upset your vision of the church, well, I guess you will have to deal with it. Church is not about you or me.
Church is about God, (I know you have heard it before). It is also about self-forgetfulness. I would argue that there is no other religion in the world whose focus is away from the practitioner. When Christ was asked which were the greatest commandments, he responded with Love God and Love your neighbor, (you can check it out in Matthew 22:34-40).
Notice Jesus did not say, “Take care of yourself first, and then if you have time love God and then maybe your neighbor.” No, he pointed out that our first duty is to love God, and by doing that we fulfill our second duty of loving our neighbor. He also points out that if we do this, we will fulfill every law that was written as well as fulfill prophecies.
So, the secret of Christianity is to stop being so self-absorbed. Stop looking for ways to get ahead or be more comfortable. Instead look for ways to show your love for God and help your neighbor.
You see, I honestly believe that many of the problems that are in the world, (and they have been for centuries) are because we are in a world that focuses on self. When we work, we work for our own benefit. We gather to stock our own larders. We build to make ourselves more comfortable. We sometimes will do charitable things around Christmas or in emergencies, but for the most part, it’s all about me, myself and I.
Let’s face it, we can be selfish, which is why the world is so opposed to Christianity. Christianity does not seek to impose rules that forces people to give to others. Christianity truly leads us to change our hearts from self-preservation to neighbor focus. When we focus on Christ, we can’t help but focus on our neighbor.
This is why it is so important for you and me to get to church. It is in church that we can learn and practice how to be more self-forgetful. It is here where opportunities of selfless love begin to present themselves. It is in church that we are reminded of the ultimate self-sacrifice for the world. (Does John 3:16-17 ring a bell?) If the very person we follow lays down his life for us, who are we to not do the same?
So, if you want the world to change get thee to church. Learn what it means to Love God and Love your neighbor. Your changed heart will truly change the world.
See you in church. this is from the Methodist church pastor..

 

[Musicmaster]

Kent Wilfong​

Circuit Thoughts

Circuit Thoughts​

...
This is why it is so important for you and me to get to church. It is in church that we can learn and practice how to be more self-forgetful. It is here where opportunities of selfless love begin to present themselves. It is in church that we are reminded of the ultimate self-sacrifice for the world. (Does John 3:16-17 ring a bell?) If the very person we follow lays down his life for us, who are we to not do the same?
So, if you want the world to change get thee to church. Learn what it means to Love God and Love your neighbor. Your changed heart will truly change the world.
See you in church. this is from the Methodist church pastor..

Uh... Hmm... This assumes truth in the idea that only being allowed to look at the backs of other people's heads is somehow fulfilling of what is stated in the above.

No. In most institutions, their deadness speaks loud volumes to the contrary of this seemingly idealistic posit.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello brothers and sisters;

God bless you all and thank you for sharing your good thoughts filled with experience and wisdom. There were a few posts that didn't really know where I was going with this.

For those of you who are pastors or if you are very involved in your ministry, then you will understand that I was blessed when my Bible study group brought up this discussion which had never happened before nor did I expect this.

Most of the members of our church have worshiped with me for 9 years up to 33 years, long before I became a pastor. They're very straight up and direct with me. What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

crossnote asked a great question, could you give an example of the 'example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels'?

When the Bible study group mentioned the "catchy phrases" an example was, when the preacher talks about struggling with a decision then applies with, "let go and let God," the group is saying they need more than that, they are hungry for context in the preaching.

Some told me that years ago I tended to veer off the subject of the sermon. I received that and appreciated their honesty but it was true.

Jesus' example did not include a political left versus right opinion, funds needed for the building, constant storytelling about the preacher's life, growing more ministry programs and of course the quick fix answers. It was His preaching and teaching, real, Bible-filled, accurate, Word of God preaching, the kind of preaching that impacts the individual lives, the church body, ministry and every other ministry.

Perhaps Jesus' greatest message was at The Mount, it was unashamed preaching of the Gospel, and the people were amazed because He taught with authority reference Matthew 7:29, for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.

This was the jist of the discussion followed by my thread.

MusicMaster, it's good to see you back in the fellowship. I read and have to agree with what you're saying in your post. I don't know if what I am saying aligns with your thoughts but I will agree, we do have problem with "discipline within the discipleship" in these times. "The sermon doesn't align with what they want to hear" or "the praise music is not my style" etc...They often choose to be fed only what tastes good to them.

The majority of my church family are not theologians. We have our share of work to do for the Kingdom. Most are seasoned disciples, Praise God!, but keeping in mind we also have Christian babes in our church who are struggling with reading their Bibles daily or understanding the ministry.

More thoughts?

 

[Major]

Dear brothers, sisters and those who are pastors;

During our Thursday evening Bible study we had a heart felt discussion about the style of preaching and as I took notes, I jotted down a few of the comments;

"Much of today's evangelical preaching is far from the sermons demonstrated by Jesus, Peter, Paul and more."

"Today's sermons can get off track from the original subject."

"Today's preachers are using too many "catchy phrases" like "let go and let God," or, "name it and claim it," or "we're not perfect, just forgiven," or, "we may be rejected but we are protected" and so on, as if catchy and clever phrases will attract and sustain the congregation."

Since I'm a preacher and have had my personal growing pains of delivering sermons, I rebutted and asked them,

"Do you feel the preacher didn't pray and is just winging it? Is the message what you don't want to hear? Are you judging the preacher's style? Or are you distracted and overlook the message that God is actually using his Shepherd to deliver?"

This was received with more comments. I was somewhat blessed to have this dialogue with the group. They do listen to many other preachers outside our church family - radio, internet, tv, etc...

I have always encouraged our church family to pray for the preacher before and during the message.

What it came down to was this; they would like today's preachers to prepare their preaching and teaching followed by the example Jesus and His messengers gave in the Gospels.

I wanted to ask if we can discuss this topic here and get your thoughts?

Thank you, everybody.

Robert.....like many others.....I am not sure what you are looking for and all I can do is tell you what I have done.

I used to use an outline and I still do. SCRIPTURES make up the most part of every sermon I do.

I have done this for so long now that I do not really need notes or helps but that is not the point.

I am am old country boy......you know that. I come across just like that and the congregation expects it. I ran off all the liberals years ago so pretty much all I say now is AMEN!

What I do say is what God said. WHEN I preach on abortion and say that abortion is murder I immediately quote Exodus 20:5.
WHEN I preach on gay marriages and condemn it, I immediately quote Leviticus 18:22 or Leviticus 20:13, and Jude 7.

Now I also do expository preaching. I like it the most because it allows me to know what I am doing next week and it also allows the congregation to read and study in advance.

The bottom line Bob is that I am a very down to earth common man who God has blessed with the ability of an excellent Christian education.
God gifted me with ability to speak to others where they are so that when I am preaching, every person in the auditorium thinks I know something about THEM. Fact is......I do not know anything but God takes the preached words and convicts those who are at risk of disobedience.

So then, if a preacher never preaches against sin...........he will always be popular!
If a preacher never takes a stand...........................................he will always be popular!

If a preacher speaks for God, takes a stand against sin, no matter what it is, and is sincere he will always get a lot of Amens!

 

[bobinfaith]

Robert.....like many others.....I am not sure what you are looking for and all I can do is tell you what I have done. I used to use an outline and I still do. SCRIPTURES make up the most part of every sermon I do. I have done this for so long now that I do not really need notes or helps but that is not the point. I am am old country boy......you know that. I come across just like that and the congregation expects it. I ran off all the liberals years ago so pretty much all I say now is AMEN! What I do say is what God said. WHEN I preach on abortion and say that abortion is murder I immediately quote Exodus 20:5. WHEN I preach on gay marriages and condemn it, I immediately quote Leviticus 18:22 or Leviticus 20:13, and Jude 7. Now I also do expository preaching. I like it the most because it allows me to know what I am doing next week and it also allows the congregation to read and study in advance. The bottom line Bob is that I am a very down to earth common man who God has blessed with the ability of an excellent Christian education. God gifted me with ability to speak to others where they are so that when I am preaching, every person in the auditorium thinks I know something about THEM. Fact is......I do not know anything but God takes the preached words and convicts those who are at risk of disobedience. So then, if a preacher never preaches against sin...........he will always be popular! If a preacher never takes a stand...........................................he will always be popular! If a preacher speaks for God, takes a stand against sin, no matter what it is, and is sincere he will always get a lot of Amens!

Hello Major;

I just posted my followup and your post, probably in response to my original thread is what I was asking for.

If a preacher speaks for God, takes a stand against sin, no matter what it is, and is sincere he will always get a lot of Amens! - quote Major

I agree with you and feel our posts align.

God bless you, Major, and your family.

 

[rtm3039]

Robert.....like many others.....I am not sure what you are looking for and all I can do is tell you what I have done.

I used to use an outline and I still do. SCRIPTURES make up the most part of every sermon I do.

I have done this for so long now that I do not really need notes or helps but that is not the point.

I am am old country boy......you know that. I come across just like that and the congregation expects it. I ran off all the liberals years ago so pretty much all I say now is AMEN!

What I do say is what God said. WHEN I preach on abortion and say that abortion is murder I immediately quote Exodus 20:5.
WHEN I preach on gay marriages and condemn it, I immediately quote Leviticus 18:22 or Leviticus 20:13, and Jude 7.

Now I also do expository preaching. I like it the most because it allows me to know what I am doing next week and it also allows the congregation to read and study in advance.

The bottom line Bob is that I am a very down to earth common man who God has blessed with the ability of an excellent Christian education.
God gifted me with ability to speak to others where they are so that when I am preaching, every person in the auditorium thinks I know something about THEM. Fact is......I do not know anything but God takes the preached words and convicts those who are at risk of disobedience.

So then, if a preacher never preaches against sin...........he will always be popular!
If a preacher never takes a stand...........................................he will always be popular!

If a preacher speaks for God, takes a stand against sin, no matter what it is, and is sincere he will always get a lot of Amens!

Ok, this is mostly curiosity here. A couple of month ago, I came across what I know is a gay couple at church. I did not speak with them, do not know them, did not hear then say anything, but it is obvious to me that they are a gay male couple.

Obviously, I know what Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, and Jude 7 says (and I agree, as far as the act goes, but maybe not the actor). However, how do you deal with members of your congregation who are homosexual? Yes, they are living in sin, but we all are.

Rtm

 

[bobinfaith]

Ok, this is mostly curiosity here. A couple of month ago, I came across what I know is a gay couple at church. I did not speak with them, do not know them, did not hear then say anything, but it is obvious to me that they are a gay male couple.
Obviously, I know what Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, and Jude 7 says (and I agree, as far as the act goes, but maybe not the actor). However, how do you deal with members of your congregation who are homosexual? Yes, they are living in sin, but we all are.
Rtm

Hello Ray;

The Scriptures you pointed to are what it is and says. We have this same situation in many churches and ours (in the San Francisco Bay Area.)

We don't condone the sin but we love them, pray hard for them, listen and be supportive of their faith, share the Scriptures as we would the murderer, pedifiler, drug or substance dependency, violent abuser toward other people, etc...

We must have all the faith and power of the Holy Spirit to work and intercede with each one of us. I have personally witnessed a woman couple break from their unknowing bondage and enslavement of their sin. Slowly with the help of the church and pastor where they were attending, they moved out from living together and got back into being the creation God designed for them both.

Today they are sisters in Christ, they desire to walk in obedience and are involved in ministry, music ministry, evangelizing and telling their story in the downtown community.

But for many this takes God's perfect time and may not happen overnight. This is why fervent prayer but constant fellowship is vital.

I'll keep these men, your church and pastors in my prayers.

God bless you, Ray, and your family.