Constructive Criticism in Today's Preaching

rtm3039 said:
I asked, because I knew you would keep it in "good taste." Remember that a great deal of the "stuff" we watch for is not actually always because of the subject, but because of historical evidence that such a discussion gets personal and otherwise ugly.

Rtm
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Given our love for all people, which includes homosexuals, transes, et al, I see all of us as needing one another, not walking at the exclusion to all others outside our little click circles. Isn't it wonderful that we can reach out to any and all others we see as being in need of godly council? My need might be some godly council after I spattered an outburst of anger at an inappropriate time in meetings, or whatever.

What I hate about still being influenced, although not ruled, by sin is that I don't always see what's emanating from me. Given how (perfectly) we can all judge each other as opposed to ourselves, I value others lovingly beating me up side da head to point out what escaped from me that I didn't even notice. Habits can be some of the most sneaky escape artists...to our awareness of our own words and actions.

MM
 
Of the sermons (or is it preaching?) I've heard I think my only complaints would be...some take too long and go over and over the same thing too much, but that is me.
I tend to fall asleep if I am sitting for more than an hour.

I would prefer preaching to be much shorter (like even 10 minutes) so we can have more time for activities as a congregation. I also enjoy when there's more than one preacher.

Some preachers think it's ok to have a loud voice and shout at people, but, with microphones you don't really need to do that.
I like to hear God's word and I like it if the Bible reading is connected to the sermon - sometimes one hears a reading and it's got nothing to do with what the sermon is about. I then scratch my heard wondering how to connect the two and then realise maybe it's just a random reading picked out of a devotional for that day.
 
Lanolin said:
I would prefer preaching to be much shorter (like even 10 minutes) so we can have more time for activities as a congregation. I also enjoy when there's more than one preacher.
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I have found that the 'highly liturgical' Churches with all the smells and bells, tend to have short sermons, 20 min. or less, whereas the 'auditorium' word oriented Churches obviously emphasize the Word and have longer sermons, upwards to an hour and over.
 
Musicmaster said:
Given our love for all people, which includes homosexuals, transes, et al, I see all of us as needing one another, not walking at the exclusion to all others outside our little click circles. Isn't it wonderful that we can reach out to any and all others we see as being in need of godly council? My need might be some godly council after I spattered an outburst of anger at an inappropriate time in meetings, or whatever.
What I hate about still being influenced, although not ruled, by sin is that I don't always see what's emanating from me. Given how (perfectly) we can all judge each other as opposed to ourselves, I value others lovingly beating me up side da head to point out what escaped from me that I didn't even notice. Habits can be some of the most sneaky escape artists...to our awareness of our own words and actions.
MM
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Hello MusicMaster;

What I just blue-lighted in your post reminded me of an embittered experience I had many years ago. While at Bible study I felt so hateful toward an offender and their way of life in my heart.

The pastor was teaching an encouraging passage when suddenly I rebuked the Scripture and raised my voice. The group was shocked along with my wife. But the pastor said something to me, "please control yourself." I responded, "why should I control myself? The Scriptures fall short of what I am going through!" He retorted, "yes, we understand you, but I also have to control myself."

This cut to the heart and suddenly I had no comeback. Then the Bible study group along with my wife, got up from their chairs and gathered around me, knelt down and started weeping and praying. I was shocked, that instead of them all ganging up and rebuking me, they showed me an incredible love and understood what I was going through, something I never thought I could get through.

I'll never forget that. I'll also never forget how God tended to me by using His servants to council me. MM, I agree, the same can be said to any and all others we see as being in need of godly council?

God bless you, brother and your family.
 
bobinfaith said:
The pastor was teaching an encouraging passage when suddenly I rebuked the Scripture and raised my voice. The group was shocked along with my wife. But the pastor said something to me, "please control yourself." I responded, "why should I control myself? The Scriptures fall short of what I am going through!" He retorted, "yes, we understand you, but I also have to control myself."
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Yikes Bob! I can imagine you had some big time 'splainin to your wife later that evening. Yikes again.
 
Lanolin said:
Of the sermons (or is it preaching?) I've heard I think my only complaints would be...some take too long and go over and over the same thing too much, but that is me. I tend to fall asleep if I am sitting for more than an hour. I would prefer preaching to be much shorter (like even 10 minutes) so we can have more time for activities as a congregation. I also enjoy when there's more than one preacher. Some preachers think it's ok to have a loud voice and shout at people, but, with microphones you don't really need to do that. I like to hear God's word and I like it if the Bible reading is connected to the sermon - sometimes one hears a reading and it's got nothing to do with what the sermon is about. I then scratch my heard wondering how to connect the two and then realise maybe it's just a random reading picked out of a devotional for that day.
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Hey, Lanolin;

I'm not ashamed of Jesus and share from my heart good things that have to do with His children. If you were in living in our community I would love to have you serving as a member of our church family.

I blue-lighted some key points you made. I do share the pulpit with the other Pastor and Elder. I feel it's refreshing to hear from another preacher. When I studied Planning Your Preaching by Stephen Nelson Rummage we learned that it's natural for a preacher to veer off the main verb of the sermon. It's part of building up as a messenger of the Word. Members will scratch their heads and try to see the connection.

Preaching is hard work so the more one preaches the better the flow of the message. Two of the goals is consistency and staying on track. This is why it always helps when the congregation communicates with the Pastor.

I appreciate when a member shares with me their thoughts of the message and how it impacts their faith walk. But I also receive criticism and comments which tells me they are listening. A preacher never masters this ministry. God is always working.

It's also nice when we remember last week's message.

God bless you, Lanolin, and your family.
 
crossnote said:
I have found that the 'highly liturgical' Churches with all the smells and bells, tend to have short sermons, 20 min. or less, whereas the 'auditorium' word oriented Churches obviously emphasize the Word and have longer sermons, upwards to an hour and over.
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We actually have a clock in the back that shows how long a message is. Once it goes to 0:00:00, the numbers change from green to red. I would say that, on average, the message itself is around 35 minutes, with about 20 minutes at the start by the worship team and admin announcement of around 5 mins at the end. Only one of our pastors get's even close, with abut 5 - 10 mins in the red.

Rtm
 
Lanolin said:
Of the sermons (or is it preaching?) I've heard I think my only complaints would be...some take too long and go over and over the same thing too much, but that is me.
I tend to fall asleep if I am sitting for more than an hour.

I would prefer preaching to be much shorter (like even 10 minutes) so we can have more time for activities as a congregation. I also enjoy when there's more than one preacher.

Some preachers think it's ok to have a loud voice and shout at people, but, with microphones you don't really need to do that.
I like to hear God's word and I like it if the Bible reading is connected to the sermon - sometimes one hears a reading and it's got nothing to do with what the sermon is about. I then scratch my heard wondering how to connect the two and then realise maybe it's just a random reading picked out of a devotional for that day.
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Our services are a bit interactive. We give out these cards (or you get them on the app) where you write in certain parts of the message.

App.JPG CF outline.JPG
 
rtm3039 said:
We actually have a clock in the back that shows how long a message is. Once it goes to 0:00:00, the numbers change from green to red. I would say that, on average, the message itself is around 35 minutes, with about 20 minutes at the start by the worship team and admin announcement of around 5 mins at the end. Only one of our pastors get's even close, with abut 5 - 10 mins in the red.

Rtm
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Hey Ray;

Yes, that does happen for a reason with most large and mega churches. Large and mega churches have to have structure, good organization in the flow of it's worship service. Imagine if your sanctuary with so many people gathered with "anything goes."

With a small church it's easier time management.

But the worship of Jesus stays the same.
 
rtm3039 said:
We actually have a clock in the back that shows how long a message is. Once it goes to 0:00:00, the numbers change from green to red. I would say that, on average, the message itself is around 35 minutes, with about 20 minutes at the start by the worship team and admin announcement of around 5 mins at the end. Only one of our pastors get's even close, with abut 5 - 10 mins in the red.

Rtm
Click to expand...
I was in a Baptist Church a long while ago and if you turned around (opposite the pulpit) you would see this large wall clock, and beneath the wall clock would be a larger sign that said, "REMEMBER LOT'S WIFE"
 
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rtm3039 said:
We actually have a clock in the back that shows how long a message is. Once it goes to 0:00:00, the numbers change from green to red. I would say that, on average, the message itself is around 35 minutes, with about 20 minutes at the start by the worship team and admin announcement of around 5 mins at the end. Only one of our pastors get's even close, with abut 5 - 10 mins in the red.

Rtm
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why Limit what GOD can do i was in revival service the preacher preached 2 hours 10 mins the next night Things happened .it was a God thing the power of God at the end of the service a man stood up said guess its me your after came forward . dont get me wrong i dont recommend 2 hour preaching. but if God is in it let it alone. the anointing destroys the yoke.
 
bobinfaith said:
Yes, that does happen for a reason with most large and mega churches. Large and mega churches have to have structure, good organization in the flow of it's worship service. Imagine if your sanctuary with so many people gathered with "anything goes."
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if teh the anointing is in it what is wrong with that ? provided it is of God
 
forgiven61 said:
why Limit what GOD can do i was in revival service the preacher preached 2 hours 10 mins the next night Things happened .it was a God thing the power of God at the end of the service a man stood up said guess its me your after came forward . dont get me wrong i dont recommend 2 hour preaching. but if God is in it let it alone. the anointing destroys the yoke.
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I guess it's due to the next service being at 12:20 ad needing the time to clean up and get ready to do it again?
 
forgiven61 said:
why Limit what GOD can do i was in revival service the preacher preached 2 hours 10 mins the next night Things happened .it was a God thing the power of God at the end of the service a man stood up said guess its me your after came forward . dont get me wrong i dont recommend 2 hour preaching. but if God is in it let it alone. the anointing destroys the yoke.
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forgiven61 said:
if teh the anointing is in it what is wrong with that ? provided it is of God
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Hello forgiven61;

There is nothing wrong with a long sermon. I'm trying to remember a renowned preacher around the end of the 19th century who gave an expository sermon that lasted 18 years! My curiosity is getting the better of me and will dig through my resource books and notes to find out who that was.

The time clock has to do with Ray's church structure but nothing was mentioned about a "time limit" given to the pastor's message.

Unfortunately, in these times the church congregation has limited their attention span in many churches.

For myself, I have no problem listening and enjoying a 2 hour sermon when it's anointed by God. Why not?
 
bobinfaith said:
the church congregation has limited their attention span in many churches.

For myself, I have no problem listening and enjoying a 2 hour sermon when it's anointed by God. Why not?
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many do have limited attention span and the 2 hour message i was wearing out. but the NeXT night he got up said he overwhelmed in the spirit.. you had be there only type service like that i been in. seen one try to duplicate but was not of God zzzz. on a lighter night my bro sent me text his son preached at church camp 13 kids saved all the counselors had tears . i would be happy with just one we had 2 nights service in june fri sat night last night we had young man saved ptl he came as a visitor
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello forgiven61;

There is nothing wrong with a long sermon. I'm trying to remember a renowned preacher around the end of the 19th century who gave an expository sermon that lasted 18 years! My curiosity is getting the better of me and will dig through my resource books and notes to find out who that was.

The time clock has to do with Ray's church structure but nothing was mentioned about a "time limit" given to the pastor's message.

Unfortunately, in these times the church congregation has limited their attention span in many churches.

For myself, I have no problem listening and enjoying a 2 hour sermon when it's anointed by God. Why not?
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Good morning brother Bob. Did you mean it lasted 18 hours or "18 years?"

And yes, there really is no established time limit, but we have three services on Sunday and some type of discipline has to be observed to get people in, get them out, do a "deep clean," and start all over again.

The "killer" is the 10:45 service, as that one sees from 500 to 1,300 people and that takes a little time to set up.

You all have a great and blessed day.

Rtm
 
rtm3039 said:
Good morning brother Bob. Did you mean it lasted 18 hours or "18 years?"

And yes, there really is no established time limit, but we have three services on Sunday and some type of discipline has to be observed to get people in, get them out, do a "deep clean," and start all over again.

The "killer" is the 10:45 service, as that one sees from 500 to 1,300 people and that takes a little time to set up.

You all have a great and blessed day.

Rtm
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Good morning, Ray;

18 years. I'm going to find out who this preacher was.
 
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