Contradictions In The Bible???

Theophilus von Hohenheim said:
But God is a consuming fire, not because he's cruel or spiteful, but simply because perfect holiness utterly destroys that which is impure.

I have no patience for those who say that "fear" really means "respect". No, it means FEAR, dang it. God is not our buddy, he is our utterly perfect, holy Father who deigned to save us, only because he would have it no other way. A little fear in such a case makes perfect sense. And surely scripture testifies to this, because every time any of the writers of scripture were visited by a vision of God or his holy angels, fear was always the first reaction. Theo von H.
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I agree with your all consuming fire analysis :) but only partially with fear. Who fears God? Nobody living has tasted His wrath. For me fearing God is a choice the wise who love and respect Him make. We fear losing God. I do not fear His wrath :cautious:.

When you really think about it, eternal ''suffering'' as in torture and burning in fire makes no sense. I can see why people want to believe in annihilation and temporary hell. But both those make no sense either :D. Annihilation nullifies free will and rejection = rejection unless God is partial and ignores the rejection, which He is not. The only alternative is then temporary suffering with eternal banishment. But then what will God do with the evil after the suffering is done?
 
rev3lations said:
How many people do you think can stand by and watch there own children being burt for more than a split second, only a few, but then how many more could stand by and watch the parent who watched there child burn for a few hours more, many but not all. But then who could do that for eternity, only god
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Did I hear someone mention calvin?? Not talking about me I hope;)

rev3lations, while you are waiting for the blade to ahhh fall, I have not been following this thread at all closely, am I correct in understanding that you have issues with eternal torment? I'll await your reply before jumping in and making a fool sagacious spectacle of myself:confused: But I will respond to some of your posts on page (9).
 
rev3lations said:
If people can be saved by what they respond to from god before they hear the gospel then whats the use of the gospel. Is it better to not tell people the gospel in the first place since once you do that you have put that person into position of accountability.

Is it better for me to not tell my daughters foster parents about jesus because as you say (at the moment they do respond to the light of christ by caring for and loving her) However if I tell them the gospel then the odds are stacked against them to respond, since after they hear it they will then have to accept it or perish. But if I leave them alone and say nothing the good they do in response to jesus will be rewarded.

Like jesus said, if you even give a cup of cold water to one of these little ones......

And they have sure done that.
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I think you partially misunderstood my point. I did not say that people can be saved just by responding to the light that they have. That will not save them in and of itself. The point that I am making is that if they respond to the feeble light that they do have, God will in turn, ensure that they hear the gospel and have a chance to be saved, just as Cornelius.

No one can be saved apart from the Lord Jesus Christ. The gospel is essential to salvation. John 3:36;

'He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.'
 
rev3lations said:
How many people do you think can stand by and watch there own children being burt for more than a split second, only a few, but then how many more could stand by and watch the parent who watched there child burn for a few hours more, many but not all. But then who could do that for eternity, only god
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All men are not God's children. Only those who receive Christ are God's children. John 1:12,13 says;

' But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.'

Romans 8:14-16;

'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.'

So, no, God does not stand by and watch his children burn. He gives them eternal life. What you must realize is that unsaved people are children of the Devil, hence God will allow them to spend eternity with their father, just as God's children will spend eternity with their Father. John 8:42-44;

' Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.'
 
rev3lations said:
If people can be saved by what they respond to from god before they hear the gospel then whats the use of the gospel. Is it better to not tell people the gospel in the first place since once you do that you have put that person into position of accountability.

Is it better for me to not tell my daughters foster parents about jesus because as you say (at the moment they do respond to the light of christ by caring for and loving her) However if I tell them the gospel then the odds are stacked against them to respond, since after they hear it they will then have to accept it or perish. But if I leave them alone and say nothing the good they do in response to jesus will be rewarded.

Like jesus said, if you even give a cup of cold water to one of these little ones......

And they have sure done that.
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Difficult to be specific because of the unusual situation to which you refer. However, I believe your premise is flawed for the following reasons.
These people will be judged by the Lord regardless of anything you do or do not say.......but you will be judged for what you do or do not say to them. Eze 3:18,19,20,21.
Is it better to tell them the good news? Everybody is in bondage of one form or another.
Jesus came to set the captives free... see Luke 4:18,19. Definitely a person has to be better off if given a chance to receive liberty through the death and resurrection of Christ Jesus. If you fail to tell these people the good news about Jesus, how do you figure that they can do good in response to Him?
 
Can't fearing God be the same a respecting Him, I don't see the idea of being afraid of God coinciding with what Paul said, we can call Him "Dada," Abba, it's baby talk in the Greek, also when asked to see the Father, His response was, "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father," and the only people afraid of Jesus were those that would lose their jobs.

In reading the Gospels I see Jesus as a people person, He enjoyed being with them, and personally I think it was a hoot for Him to be able to be with His creation and have them hanging on Him, touching Him, reclining on His chest at dinner, being able to hold precious little children in His arms, ...and NOT turn them into crispy critters, we must admit it was a new experience for God that he had probably been waiting for since time began, ...I see the Bible teaching the fear of the Lord is to be afraid to hurt Him in any way and wrapped up in that is respect.

Blessings,

Gene
 
rev3lations said:
Since good works can't save you but be by the grace of god, if my daughters foster parents die today they will be sent into the everlasting fires of hell.

No one can say here that no one wont go to hell if they believe all the posts above about how evil and sinfull they are without god. Since works don't save you, you only have one choice, believe or perish. How then does one account for the millions who never heard the gospel, do they go to hell by defult. If you say "no people who never heard the gospel don't go to hell," but they have to since god can't save anyone who does not have faith and if he can just for those people then faith is useless, since those people didn't have it under those conditions and were saved.
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That means there are varying degrees of punishment in hell my friend.

ONLY those who accept Christ can go to heaven but those who have never heard the gospel and die in sin having not heard the good news will not suffer as will those who have heard but then rejected.

By the way, no one is "sent" to hell. Where we spend eternity is a choice we all make and the basis for that choice is "whom do we say that Jesus Is".

BUT why are YOU more concerned about those who have never heard the gospel than you are about yourself????

Jesus came to save the lost of which YOU and ME are included. When we defer our conversation to others in different parts of the world, we are tying to shift the focus away from US.
 
rev3lations said:
I am not going to talk about this anymore, I have asked my account be closed, so I have to wait till then.
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I hope you will not leave just yet. You haven't examined the matter in it's entirety yet, and it is very important.
 
calvin said:
Did I hear someone mention calvin?? Not talking about me I hope;)

rev3lations, while you are waiting for the blade to ahhh fall, I have not been following this thread at all closely, am I correct in understanding that you have issues with eternal torment? I'll await your reply before jumping in and making a fool sagacious spectacle of myself:confused: But I will respond to some of your posts on page (9).
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So that I do not have to look it up, what is "sagacious". Is it where we sag in certain places???
 
Major, please excuse my persiflage...but you should know me well enough by now....it probably has something to do with the phase of the moon.:D:).
Actually I'm just idling time waiting and hoping rev3lation will come back in.
 
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