DO You Believe That We Have A Guardian Angel Today

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crossnote said:
I can only imagine...

Luke 2:9-10 (KJV) And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.

Luke 2:13-14 (KJV) And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
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We would worship them as if they were God! That is why we can not see them!
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I believe that he is describing my former life, when I used to do the things that I didn't want to do. But after receiving the Circumcision of Christ, more and more, I do the things that I always wanted to do. The things that I could not do, I now do . . . because I have escaped the corruption of the Sinful Nature, replaced by the Divine Nature.

[2Pe 1:4 KJV] "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."
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I think that we can say that brother.

But the real facts are that Paul wrote the words in Romans 7 AFTER he was saved and he realized that even though he was exactly what you said......He still found himself in the middle of a struggel between his sin nature and his new nature.

Becoming a partaker of the divine nature means that the characteristics of God’s nature become my own. For example, among other things, divine nature is:
Good
Gentle
Righteous
Merciful
Forgiving
Longsuffering
Patient
Joyful
Peaceful

That does not mean that ALL men who inherited the sin nature from Adam will become "sinless" after coming to Christ. That will happen one day when we receieve a glorified body, but not while we are still in a body that is inhabited by the sin nature.
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Oh boy . . . in other words, "Thus sayeth the Lord!"



I used to believe that, too . . . and then I spent thousands of hours reading the entire Bible so that I could fully comprehend the context of the "Book" as a whole. Because of my persistent Asking, Seeking, and Knocking, I came to understand the primary, or core, context of the entire Book. I walked away from my timeline, chronological study of thousands of hours with the four points as the core context of the entire Bible:

1) The Power of God
2) The Purpose of Christ
3) The Work of Christ
4) The Effect of Christ

Once I was able to fully outline those four points above, with the backing of hundreds, if not thousands of Scriptures, I realized that I shouldn't have ever uttered a word about the Word of God.

Do you know how many times the Apostle Paul urged his readers to imitate him? I have cataloged about 18 entires. That's a rather odd thing to do if he was struggling with sin. Once my eyes were opened so that my blind mind could "see," passage sets like the one below began to help me understand my horrific and backward understanding of Paul:

NIV - "For we know, brothers and sisters loved by God, that he has chosen you, because our gospel came to you not simply with words but also with power, with the Holy Spirit and deep conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. You became imitators of us and of the Lord, for you welcomed the message in the midst of severe suffering with the joy given by the Holy Spirit."

In all of Paul's writings, I don't ever see Paul making his outlandish set of habitual sins clear for us all to see. Never. Not once. And why is that? Because the things he wrote about happened to him; he wrote about his experiences (and not wishful thinking) . . . Paul was transformed from the Old Man to the New Man . . . and this deals directly with "And you will know them by their fruit." And of course, a Turn from disobedience to obedience is the Effect of Christ, produced by the Work of Christ, which is Circumcision of the Heart . . . all of which is the Purpose of Christ.

When Paul wrote Romans 12:2, was this just a dream of his? Was he merely hoping that one day a Transformation might take place?

Romans 12:2 NLT - "Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will learn to know God's will for you, which is good and pleasing and perfect." - And when we change the way we think, we change the things we do. So if you think that Paul had already undergone his Transformation of thinking when he wrote Romans chapter seven, I can't imagine what that transformation was. If Paul was still the "worst of sinners" and still doing the things he always used to do, and if he was still thinking upon habitual sin . . . I can't imagine what that transformation actually was. In fact, if Paul was still struggling with constant, habitual sin, then there was no Holy Transformation at all. And if that's the case, then the Power of God is null and void. And if the Power of God does not Transform His Holy Elect, then our Faith is dead and useless.

To understand Romans 7, a person would benefit from knowing and understanding the entire Bible in its core context.
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I am very, very happy to know that you have spend so much time in the Word of God. I do not know how much time that I have spent doing the same thing. I Understand what you are saying and believe.

Allow me to share with you what I have beeen able to understand. Ephesians 4:13 says.......
"till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ".

Some translations say that we will become “perfect” (instead of “mature”), and from this some people have mistakenly thought that we can reach sinless perfection in this life. However.....The Bible teaches that, while we are in the flesh, we will always struggle with a sin nature and that is what Paul says in Romans 7. No one will be or will perfect” (sinless) until we reach heaven.

What Ephesians 4:13 teaches is that, the more we grow in Christ, the stronger and more unified we will be as a church. The verse does not teach that we will stop sinning.

As human beings we are bound under Adam’s nature in this world. No matter how hard we try not to, we will still sin against God. This holds true for everyone. The apostle Paul rebuked Peter for showing favoritism (Galatians 2:11–13). Late in his ministry, Paul calls himself the chief of sinners (1 Timothy 1:15). Peter, James, John, and Paul all admitted that they were imperfect. How could you or I claim anything different?
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I wrote:

"Paul seems"

This is made evident by how there are two opposing groups of people regarding the view of Romans 7:

1) Paul had been lifted of his old Sinful Nature
2) Paul had not been lifted of his old Sinful Nature
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You also said, "I wish that he were a better writer; but he wasn't."
If Paul wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, how could he write any better?
Perhaps the Holy Spirit could have inspired better?
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
I couldn't disagree more. That said, I'm not here to convince anyone of anything. In all my years, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've seen anyone change their belief system. Why? Because they look at themselves as say, "I'm a Christian!" And they, themselves, become the basis and foundation by which they interpret Holy Scripture. I don't do that anymore. Instead, the Scriptures determine who I am, and more critically, who I once was.

Romans 7:5 NLT - "When we were controlled by our old nature, sinful desires were at work within us, and the law aroused these evil desires that produced a harvest of sinful deeds, resulting in death."

There is no doubt that Paul seems to contradict himself. I wish that he were a better writer; but he wasn't. So, instead of me thinking that I understand the Gospel, I turn from myself and my own ideas and rely upon the Word of God to make things clear.

Ezekiel 36:25-27 KJV - "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

Since you openly admit that you struggle with sin, I hope that the Lord will one day grant you the New, Circumcised Heart promised above . . . SO THAT you will begin to obey. There is a Purpose; there is a Work; there is an Effect. Sorry to hear that you haven't received the Effect as of yet. In fact, many don't receive that Effect until they're on their deathbeds. And in their final moments, they reach up towards the Sky as they begin to be Cleansed by Christ. They gasp is Holy Awe with an amazed look upon their faces . . . and they reach for Him . . . because He is showing Himself to them. He is Opening their blind eyes so that they can Spiritually See. And then they die to finally escape the physical body and world, this beautiful yet wretched place that it is.
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No problem that you disagree with me. You are not the 1st one to do that my brother.

However I do take exception to what you said about.............
"Since you openly admit that you struggle with sin, I hope that the Lord will one day grant you the New, Circumcised Heart promised above . . . SO THAT you will begin to obey. "

Now you do realize that you are actually bragging"?????

Because you disagree with others on this subject, I would question your thinking on that because, of that we are somehow not as born again as you are. That is what you are saying whether you admit it or not. That is a dangerous position to assume my brother and I would encourage you to re-think your position. You stated that you have put in thousands of hours on this subject so I am perplexed how you missed 1 John 1:18- "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

Do realize what John is saying.....LITERALLY!??? John has just introduced the idea of walking in the light and being cleansed from sin.
But he did not for a moment believe, say or suggest that a Christian can become sinlessly perfect.

What he did say was that to think this of ourselves is to deceive ourselves, and to say this of ourselves is to lie – the truth is not in us.!!!

Please spend another 1000 hours on this Scripture.
John said...." If we confess our sins".

That means that though sin is present in us, it need not remain a hindrance to our relationship with God – we may find complete cleansing from all unrighteousness as we confess our sins.

To confess means, “to say the same as.” When we confess our sin, we are willing to say and believe the same thing about our sin that God says about it. Jesus’ story about the religious man and the sinner who prayed before God illustrated this; the Pharisee bragged about how righteous he was, while the sinner just said God be merciful to me a sinner in Luke 18:10-14. The one who confessed his sin was the one who agreed with God about how bad he was.

Confess translates a verb in the present tense. The meaning is that we should keep on confessing our sin – instead of referring to a “once-for-all” confession of sin at our conversion.

Now, watch this..............Our sins are not forgiven because we confess. If this were the case – if forgiveness for a sin could only come where there was confession – then we would all be damned because it would be impossible for us to confess every sin we ever commit. I know that you are not believing that, but that is the reality of life!
We are forgiven because our punishment was put upon Jesus, we are cleansed by His blood.

However, confession is still vital to maintain relationship with God, and this is the context John speaks from. As God convicts us of sin that is hindering our fellowship with Him, we must confess it and receive forgiveness and cleansing for our relationship with God to continue without hindrance.
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Since I have joined this forum, you have nit-picked me death. Is this your future intention?
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Ooops..........that is going over the line Timothy!!!!

YOU are the one who said....................., "I wish that he were a better writer; but he wasn't."!!!

Maybe with all those 1000's of hours of study you did, you could have thought of something better to say than that.

Maybe something like.........."Gee, Paul who wrote under the guidance of God wrote lots of really good stuff, I wish I was better able to understand what GOD WROTE!"
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Why are you so upset? And now you have to result to me being a braggart. And then you have to begin speaking to me in a demeaning way. Why do you resort to such tactics?
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????

I do not understand!

I am not upset in any way. Too old to be upset.

I said that WHAT you were doing is bragging. Do you not see what you said????
TO ME you said...........
"I used to believe that, too . . . and then I spent thousands of hours reading the entire Bible so that I could fully comprehend the context of the "Book" as a whole. Because of my persistent Asking, Seeking, and Knocking, I came to understand the primary, or core, context of the entire Book. I walked away from my timeline, chronological study of thousands of hours with the four points as the core context of the entire Bible".

Now what do YOU call that?????

If that offends you, I apologize but that is what it seems to me that you were doing.

As for demeaning. NOPE!.

You said to crossnote ........
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Since I have joined this forum, you have nit-picked me death. Is this your future intention?
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I do not think that was a proper responce and I then said to you because of your comment to crossnote...................
"Ooops..........that is going over the line Timothy!!!!

YOU are the one who said....................., "I wish that he were a better writer; but he wasn't."!!!

To me.....that was nothing more than a gentle "rebuke" for questioning God's writing of the Bible.

If you think that was demeaning......then to you it is!
 
Now........Back to the original thread.

The question that needs to be answered is..... If we have an omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving God with us, does it really matter whether or not there is a finite guardian angel protecting us?
 
Major said:
Now........Back to the original thread.

The question that needs to be answered is..... If we have an omniscient, omnipotent, all-loving God with us, does it really matter whether or not there is a finite guardian angel protecting us?
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Jude 24 (KJV) Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

...unless it is argued that God uses means besides His Spirit and Word.
 
crossnote said:
I respectfully disagree. According to your understanding, if the sinful nature has been totally done away with through 'the circumcision of Christ', then we should have many sinless Christians. In the 48 years of my Christian walk, I have not met one, have you?
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If there were any , the moment confessed had reached sinless perfection state, just sinned!
 
Major said:
Would you be more specific. I am not evading your question I just want to be sure of what you are asking before I respond.

Are you asking me if I am saved?
If so then I thank you for the question and YES. I am born again.

Are you saying that spiritual circumcision of the heart makes the believer sinless?
If so, then my answer is NO!

Are you saying that spiritual circumcision removes the sin nature of men?
If so then my answer is NO!

I, just like everyone else who accepted Christ, certainly received the gift of righteousness and God's precious Holy Spirit, but alas, I, like the apostle Paul said AFTER he was saved....."still find that in me (that is, in my fleshly nature), dwells no good thing."

Now, IF you are saying that the sin nature in you has been eradicated, One question for you though... Does your wife/husband think that your sinful nature is eradicated?

Ok, seriously... I'm being naughty and you'll have to forgive me as you sounded like a nice person from all your posts. It's just that I really don't buy into the eradication thing... I don't believe it squares up with the teaching of the Bible or the experience of born again believers. I have lived a long life and I to this day have NEVER EVER met anyone who does not have a sin nature.

David was a man after Gods own heart but there is hardly a sin that he did not commit.
Noah was one of 8 men who God saved in the flood and AFTER that he got so drunk he passed out naked.
Abraham is praised for his faith, but he lied twice about his wife being his sister in order to escape being harmed.
Moses has a relationship with God like no ither man, but when God told him to SPEAK to the rock, he disobeyed God.
Solomon loved God and did more for God than David, but he had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
Peter was a disciple, and Apostle and lived with Jesu for 3 years, but one night he lied not one but 3 times about the Lord.
Paul wrote most of the New Test, but he also admitted to continuing struggle against sin as a believer in Romans 7 after he was saved.

The Bible tells us in Colossians 2:8-14 that Every Believer circumcises the part of the flesh as they accept Christ. We were formerly dead in our transgressions but are made alive - SAVED in Christ.

That however does not mean we have removed that sin nature or that we will never sin again.

Blessing to you as you consider these things.
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Is he advocating some type of second act of grace, as in "baptism of the Holy Ghost?"
 
2ndTimothyGroup said:
Thank you for your well-wishes, and I'm glad to hear that you feel that you've been given a new Heart. To receive a New Heart . . . there is no more important or valuable "thing" that any person ought seek in their entire life than a Circumcised, Purified Heart. Nothing comes even remotely close.

BTW: I'm about to be banned, so I send you my best.
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I hate to hear that.

I hate to think that I may have caused you any pain, and if I did I I truely apologize.
 
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